Spanish players furore over bring kissed

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Alright, the kiss was inappropriate, but the kiss was done in a stadium in front tens of thousands of screaming, happy fans at a winning soccer championship game. Certainly, the woman being kissed has a right to feel uncomfortable, and to object to the kiss. But I have a hard time thinking that the kiss was the worst event in the history of mankind.
 

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hollydolly said:
Believe me as someone who lived in Spain for many years, I can assure you like Italians, the Spanish are very tactile when they're excited especially in Sports.....good god people are talking like he held her down and smooched her.. he kissed her on the lips for one second.. patted her on the back.... in Congratulations... She's made such a fuss about it he's very unlikely to do it again..
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And I am amazed about all the talk about feeling sexually violated! Okay, the man should have been more careful in 2023 because everyone under twenty-five feels offended by something these days but look at the clip, the enthusiasm, the quick peck on the lips! It's Spain, for Pete's sake! And try to forget the horrible thing done to you, Hermoso! Maybe see a good psychiatrist to help you cope in the meantime!
 
Heavens, I am almost glad I won't live much longer. My world has gone mad! So many influencers, so many attention seekers, so many narcissists, so many self-righteous crusaders, so many accusations and cancellations because of something that was said or done thirty years ago! Even the law has limitations when it comes to all but the most serious offenses!

Thanks, Internet. Everyone (young to youngish) appears to be so needy, looking for those five minutes of fame to affirm that they are important. Open your mouth for anything but platitutes and you're racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and any other kind of ... ist or ... ic one can think of!

>O.S. off to talk about the dreadful weather we are having!
 

Old Salt said:
Heavens, I am almost glad I won't live much longer. My world has gone mad! So many influencers, so many attention seekers, so many narcissists, so many self-righteous crusaders, so many accusations and cancellations because of something that was said or done thirty years ago! Even the law has limitations when it comes to all but the most serious offenses!

Thanks, Internet. Everyone (young to youngish) appears to be so needy, looking for those five minutes of fame to affirm that they are important. Open your mouth for anything but platitutes and you're racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and any other kind of ... ist or ... ic one can think of!
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well said, couldn't agree more
 
Old Salt said:
If you should be referring to my post, @Shalimar I thought I made it very clear I was being sarcastic???? Why do I have to put an emoji at the end of a post to make it clear it is tongue-in-cheek! Or are you being funny in return and I am the one who doesn't get it? ;););)
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I was unaware you were being funny. I fail to find anything humorous in this sad state of affairs, particularly after reading the anti gay comments.
 
Shalimar said:
I was unaware you were being funny. I fail to find anything humorous in this sad state of affairs, particularly after reading the anti gay comments.
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That's sad, @Shalimar! I couldn't have been any clearer! What sad state of affairs? That a manager gave a quick peck to one of the winners from sheer enthusiasm. If you see anything (sexually) offensive in that then you haven't looked closely at the video but react from personal prejudice!

And, sorry, I didn't read all of the thread, just a news report that stated that Ms. Hermoso felt she was being sexually assaulted! Which is plainly ridiculous ... to most of us! And I had no idea that there were any anti-gay comments. I don't read everything! I have never uttered anything anti-gay, nor felt that way, having preached tolerance and acceptance all of my life! Not that I need to justify myself, just clearing things up for those who might be equally predisposed to judge on the strength of one post!

How's the weather on Vancouver Island?
 
Old Salt said:
That's sad, @Shalimar! I couldn't have been any clearer! What sad state of affairs? That a manager gave a quick peck to one of the winners from sheer enthusiasm. If you see anything (sexually) offensive in that then you haven't looked closely at the video but react from personal prejudice!

And, sorry, I didn't read all of the thread, just a news report that stated that Ms. Hermoso felt she was being sexually assaulted! Which is plainly ridiculous ... to most of us! And I had no idea that there were any anti-gay comments. I don't read everything! I have never uttered anything anti-gay, nor felt that way, having preached tolerance and acceptance all of my life! Not that I need to justify myself, just clearing things up for those who might be equally predisposed to judge on the strength of one post!

How's the weather on Vancouver Island?
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Actually, my reaction to the kiss situation is based on my professional response as a psychologist.
 
What I see are a lot of strawman arguments in some of these responses.

A strawman argument is the logical fallacy of distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that extreme version. In creating a straw man argument, the arguer strips the opposing point of view of any nuance and often misrepresents it in a negative light. Essentially, the person using the strawman pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance.

So toss in the gay, the influencers, the attention seekers, the narcissists, the self-righteous crusaders, the stadium full of people, a country's social culture and use that to attack a position supporting decency, decorum, respect and self control which can never be attacked.

I can name your tune in one note ... "strawman".
 
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As it now seems like most of the football organisations are calling for his resignation, including what seems to be some of his own. FIFA suspending him too? I wonder if during any Investigation the accusations of telling a woman that she is here to get on her knees, and the alleged daily fascination with a woman’s underwear will discussed too. Or perhaps it makes better sense to deal with that as a separate matter? And then of cause there is the past corruption allegations against him that some officials might won’t to revisit.

I think regardless what we might all think is fair or think isn’t in all of this, I can’t help wondering how long he is going to remain in his current professional position, before things get too hot to handle.
 
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Naturally said:
What I see are a lot of strawman arguments in some of these responses.

A strawman argument is the logical fallacy of distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that extreme version. In creating a straw man argument, the arguer strips the opposing point of view of any nuance and often misrepresents it in a negative light. Essentially, the person using the strawman pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance.

So toss in the gay, the influencers, the attention seekers, the narcissists, the self-righteous crusaders, the stadium full of people, a country's social culture and use that to attack a position supporting decency, decorum, respect and self control which can never be attacked.

I can name your tune in one note ... "strawman".
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You mean to say you immediately saw that too, I thought only I was seeing it. There may be hope for us alll yet
 
Old Salt said:
That's sad, @Shalimar! I couldn't have been any clearer! What sad state of affairs? That a manager gave a quick peck to one of the winners from sheer enthusiasm. If you see anything (sexually) offensive in that then you haven't looked closely at the video but react from personal prejudice!

And, sorry, I didn't read all of the thread, just a news report that stated that Ms. Hermoso felt she was being sexually assaulted! Which is plainly ridiculous ... to most of us! And I had no idea that there were any anti-gay comments. I don't read everything! I have never uttered anything anti-gay, nor felt that way, having preached tolerance and acceptance all of my life! Not that I need to justify myself, just clearing things up for those who might be equally predisposed to judge on the strength of one post!

How's the weather on Vancouver Island?
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I have seen the video and in my opinion the young woman was definitely assaulted in the legal sense of the word. He vigorously grabbed her in a hug, pulling her up against his body. She did not reciprocate with her arms and the body language indicated that she was very uncomfortable. Then he put both hands on the sides of her head and pulled her in for a hearty kiss on her lips. If that had happened to me I would have wiped my lips with the back of my hand and spat on the ground to register my disgust.

There is an obvious power difference going on here. He is a very powerful man in the soccer world and female players who make a fuss do so at risk to their career as top level athletes.

If he behaves like this in public, in front of the cameras, I shudder to think what he is like when alone with young women.
 
Avon said:
Agree, but not when a person is coerced into changing their statement to suit the bigger agenda of her close colleagues, or else I suspect in this case.
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Coerced? I reckon the other women encouraged her to speak out. It appears that the women of Spain are doing much the same. Have you forgotten the maxim we learnt as children - "Together we stand, divided we fall"?
 
Old Salt said:
Heavens, I am almost glad I won't live much longer. My world has gone mad! So many influencers, so many attention seekers, so many narcissists, so many self-righteous crusaders, so many accusations and cancellations because of something that was said or done thirty years ago! Even the law has limitations when it comes to all but the most serious offenses!

Thanks, Internet. Everyone (young to youngish) appears to be so needy, looking for those five minutes of fame to affirm that they are important. Open your mouth for anything but platitutes and you're racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and any other kind of ... ist or ... ic one can think of!

>O.S. off to talk about the dreadful weather we are having!
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What your sermon fails to address is that it is not Hermosa who is taking up the fight!!!!

It is the Spanish government, FIFA, the women of Spain, and fathers who have daughters who wish to participate in sport.

Give a person like "Don Juan" an inch and he and his unsavoury type in sport will take a yard or more behind the scenes. Then everyone's daughter or son is in danger!!!
 
The player being kissed said she never consented to the kiss, not verbally, not in body language and not afterwards. She has a right not to be man handled especially not in front of the world.

The rest of the woman’s sports team said they’d quit if he doesn’t resign. Whether this is customary in Spain, this speaks volumes.
 
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