Some thoughts on NDEs

[feywon]

While there are certain commonalities, individual differences in the experience do not invalidate anyone's reports. Why? Because once we are out of body, just 'soul', consciousness our thought/feelings/belief systems have a much more immediate and strong effect on our perceptions, that reality accepts our projections in part because it facilitates communicating what needs to be communicated to us if we're not resistant to the message because some element of it, the 'afterlife' we expected is missing.

It might also be relevant to mention that sometimes one is having a spontaneous OOBE (Out of Body Experience--astral traveling) as severe injury or illness can precipitate that. In which case the experience may have none of the above elements unless one believed one was dying. i suspect many of the hospital case where they only report what happened in surgery or maybe going into hall/lobby to check on loved ones but none of the other NDE elements might be OOBEs.

Most commonly people report
Turning and seeing their bodies. Reports of people doing this in surgeries when their heart has stopped and accurately describing what staff said and did so despite fact they were likely unconscious from an injury or anesthetic when they were wheeled in there and wouldn't know how many people or their names, or what they said to each other are a reason some medical people now accept the premise of NDEs.

Tunnels, but for some it is lighted from the start for others they move into the light. Others just find them selves in another reality.

Judgement or Life Review scenarios, the exact format and tone/feel of these is highly dependent on ones beliefs and expectations. Strictly religious people often perceive a very formal and truly 'judgemental' feel to these. For others it's less so and for some it starts of as strict of formal as they expected but evolves into something that feels more in the spirit of promoting one's understanding of the life just led. Often one comes to look things others said and did differently--as if you not only have access to all your own feelings/motives but theirs as well.

Even tho i'd abandoned organized religion by the time of mine (3/10/74--just over 27 1/2 yrs old having been been overtly and covertly suicidal for 15 yrs of my life) It was easy to see the things that influenced 'tribunal' i had. When i asked if this was the judgement part--the reply was 'Yes, but you do it not us--we just facilitate.' There was also a statement to the effect that 'most people are much harder on themselves than 'WE' would ever be.'

The Choice: Stay there, (and i know some will balk at this but some will get it) until one is ready to have another life or come back to the life of the body you've vacated? Different factors are behind whichever choice each person makes.
Sometimes, if one soul decides to 'stay' but the person they were (their skills talent, even their position in the world) another soul that is evolved enough not to need to start from infancy again can 'Walk In'--and pick up all the memories, and emotional bonds and complete that life. i know this is likely harder to accept than simple reincarnation theory for some, but if you accept the basic principal that our bodies are organic housings for our souls, which have an existence beyond the physical world, it is really not that much of a stretch.

The Walk In concept explains why sometimes not only does the experiencer feel they've profoundly changed (tho not all once---habit is so strong in us--but steadily they move toward the best version of themselves) but their loved ones often feel a 'difference' in them. It may be described as them becoming 'lighter' as if some weight lifted, and/or as more often acting from their best instincts, from love instead of fear.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you have something to add please do share your experience. However much you're comfortable with sharing.
In particular, i'd like to hear what you feel were most profound aftereffects of the NDE. For me, it was that 'beliefs' became knowings. As @Naturally said in his diary entry 'Strange Dream' it gave him a certainty.

 

[Naturally]

An aftereffect for me was being less afraid/panicky, calmer and clearer thinking during stressful times.
The reasons why, I attribute mostly to the NDE but can't pinpoint one defining attribute of the NDE experience, except that no matter what, my higher power is with me and things will unfold as they were either meant to unfold, or should.

Examples:

1) Routine commute to work one Friday morning. The route I chose usually had little traffic and it was a relaxing morning drive through rural areas and into town. This Friday morning I was driving my almost brand new car (Blue 1974 Dodge Dart Sport), drinking coffee and listening to 8-track music on the stereo. I took my eyes off the road to look down and pick out another 8-track tape.

Looking up, I saw that I'd drifted into the oncoming traffic lane and was moments away from a head on collision that would have been totally my fault. I over reacted with the steering wheel when I snatched the wheel to the right. The rear end of my car started skidding and I was almost sideways in the road going 60mph. So, I pulled the wheel back to the left. the back end of the car went 180 degrees because of skidding and no traction. While the maneuvers moved my car out of harms way and cleared the path of oncoming traffic, the fun was just beginning.

As the rear end of the car skidded back around, the back wheels left the pavement and the rear end of the car was in loose gravel and the car continued to spin around until I was going down the road backwards. I'd totally and completely lost control of my car.

There was absolutely nothing else I could do. This was going to be a single car accident and there was nothing, not a single thing I could do about it ... and I wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

A calm came over me. All there was to do was ride the accident out. I let go of the steering wheel and lay my body down across the front seat and grabbed the side of the seat on the passenger side as hard as I could. I lay completely flat on the seat.

The car again crossed over into the oncoming traffic lane and into a drop off and ditch on the other side of the road. In doing so and still with a great deal of speed, the car flipped over end-to-end twice, hit a bank and rolled over three or four times, hit a bank and just started spinning down the ditch.

The upside down car's rear end struck a tree and I was ejected through where the passenger window had once been, through a barbwire fence and into a cow pasture. The sun was never brighter, air never fresher and I was grateful to be alive ... and relatively unhurt.

I climbed up to the road and the guy I'd almost had a head-on with had watched the wreck in his rear view mirror and turned around to check me out. He said, "I almost didn't turn around, I just knew you were dead and I didn't want to see it." He gave me a ride to my parents house.

I walked up the drive as my mom and dad were leaving the house for work. They initially didn't recognize me. I was very disheveled. My long "hippy" hair fluffed all out into like an afro or something. Back of my shirt ripped completely out when caught on barbwire, but not a scratch on my back. Worst was a cut below my left ear that required two stitches at the doctor and a thorn had gone completely through the top of my ear as I was ejected from the car and that hurt worst of all HA.

I saw the car later that afternoon and the only part of that car that was not bent and smashed was the trunk lid ... well it was in pretty good shape compared to the totaled car as a whole. The whole body of the car was leaning severely on the frame after flipping, rolling and spinning.

But the biggest thing that caught my eye was that the top of the car was smashed down to completely flat with the driver's door and down to about level with the mid-bottom of the steering wheel. I KNEW if I'd been wearing a seatbelt ... I KNEW if I'd locked onto the steering wheel refusing to let go ... I'd be dead. Because I was calm and able to assess the situation and protect myself as best I could, I was alive.

2) I was stationed aboard the USS Bainbridge CGN-25. We were in the Mediterranean Sea with the USS John F Kennedy CV-67 (the ship I would ultimately retire from) and had crossed Muammar Gaddafi's "Line of Death" off the coast of Libya, in the Gulf of Sidra. Our radar's showed that several coastal patrol craft were headed directly toward us from Libya. Additionally, the Libyan Air Force had launched two Russian Mig aircraft.

"General Quarters, General Quarters. Man Your Battle Stations." was announced over the ship's general announcing system (1MC). We all thought this is it and got ready to defend the ship. My job was to maintain and repair display equipment in the Combat Information Center (CIC). There were 18 display consoles, each manned by an Operations Specialist (OS).

All around me was frantic movement to get on station and get ready. For me, training took over but not only that, I found myself very calm. Whatever happens would happen as it should. All I could do was my job the best way I knew how and I knew I needed to remain calm. I placed my fate in the hands of my higher power.

There was an equipment causality to one of the consoles in CIC. An important Weapons Console. My Chief informed me. A man with much MUCH more Naval experience than myself but who I now faced and found that he was so shook up he could barely get the words out about the equipment causality and order me to fix it ASAP !!! ... but I was very calm and knew exactly what to do and how to do it in the most efficient and timely manner.

When the Kennedy became aware of the Russian Migs coming toward us, the Kennedy launched two F-14's. The F-14's engaged the Migs and shot them both down. When the Migs were shot down, the coastal patrol boats ceased attack, turned and went back to Libya.

--- So I discovered that no matter the stressful situation. I will remain calm and clear headed. My higher power is always with me and all things will happen as they should. I am not afraid.

 

[feywon]

@Naturally - that happened for me too. While intellectually i knew i should trust my gut instincts more, i often went against them when it came to people, i'd give them too much benefit of doubt. I got much better about that. But also general life situations.

Another thing was that while i still got frustrated with myself and others i found i could more easily quiet my turmoil, take a deep breath and assess the situation calmly.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

While there are certain commonalities, individual differences in the experience do not invalidate anyone's reports. Why? Because once we are out of body, just 'soul', consciousness our thought/feelings/belief systems have a much more immediate and strong effect on our perceptions, that reality accepts our projections in part because it facilitates communicating what needs to be communicated to us if we're not resistant to the message because some element of it, the 'afterlife' we expected is missing.

It might also be relevant to mention that sometimes one is having a spontaneous OOBE (Out of Body Experience--astral traveling) as severe injury or illness can precipitate that. In which case the experience may have none of the above elements unless one believed one was dying. i suspect many of the hospital case where they only report what happened in surgery or maybe going into hall/lobby to check on loved ones but none of the other NDE elements might be OOBEs.

Most commonly people report
Turning and seeing their bodies. Reports of people doing this in surgeries when their heart has stopped and accurately describing what staff said and did so despite fact they were likely unconscious from an injury or anesthetic when they were wheeled in there and wouldn't know how many people or their names, or what they said to each other are a reason some medical people now accept the premise of NDEs.

Tunnels, but for some it is lighted from the start for others they move into the light. Others just find them selves in another reality.

Judgement or Life Review scenarios, the exact format and tone/feel of these is highly dependent on ones beliefs and expectations. Strictly religious people often perceive a very formal and truly 'judgemental' feel to these. For others it's less so and for some it starts of as strict of formal as they expected but evolves into something that feels more in the spirit of promoting one's understanding of the life just led. Often one comes to look things others said and did differently--as if you not only have access to all your own feelings/motives but theirs as well.

Even tho i'd abandoned organized religion by the time of mine (3/10/74--just over 27 1/2 yrs old having been been overtly and covertly suicidal for 15 yrs of my life) It was easy to see the things that influenced 'tribunal' i had. When i asked if this was the judgement part--the reply was 'Yes, but you do it not us--we just facilitate.' There was also a statement to the effect that 'most people are much harder on themselves than 'WE' would ever be.'

The Choice: Stay there, (and i know some will balk at this but some will get it) until one is ready to have another life or come back to the life of the body you've vacated? Different factors are behind whichever choice each person makes.
Sometimes, if one soul decides to 'stay' but the person they were (their skills talent, even their position in the world) another soul that is evolved enough not to need to start from infancy again can 'Walk In'--and pick up all the memories, and emotional bonds and complete that life. i know this is likely harder to accept than simple reincarnation theory for some, but if you accept the basic principal that our bodies are organic housings for our souls, which have an existence beyond the physical world, it is really not that much of a stretch.

The Walk In concept explains why sometimes not only does the experiencer feel they've profoundly changed (tho not all once---habit is so strong in us--but steadily they move toward the best version of themselves) but their loved ones often feel a 'difference' in them. It may be described as them becoming 'lighter' as if some weight lifted, and/or as more often acting from their best instincts, from love instead of fear.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you have something to add please do share your experience. However much you're comfortable with sharing.
In particular, i'd like to hear what you feel were most profound aftereffects of the NDE. For me, it was that 'beliefs' became knowings. As @Naturally said in his diary entry 'Strange Dream' it gave him a certainty.

I'm going to respond to your post in parts...partly because I'm on a time constraint right now and also because I really want to absorb what you've written. About this statement: "so despite fact they were likely unconscious from an injury or anesthetic when they were wheeled in there and wouldn't know how many people or their names, or what they said to each other are a reason some medical people now accept the premise of NDEs."
That made me think of a story I read about a man who was in surgery and had an NDE. The surgeon who was going to operate was behind a heavy drape during part of the prep. He did a little dance while behind that drape. After he woke up the patient reported seeing the surgeon do that dance. There was no way he could have seen it from his vantage point while lying on the operating table...other medical personnel vouched for that fact, let alone while being under anesthesia. Stories like that fascinate me.

 

[feywon]

I'm going to respond to your post in parts...partly because I'm on a time constraint right now and also because I really want to absorb what you've written. About this statement: "so despite fact they were likely unconscious from an injury or anesthetic when they were wheeled in there and wouldn't know how many people or their names, or what they said to each other are a reason some medical people now accept the premise of NDEs."
That made me think of a story I read about a man who was in surgery and had an NDE. The surgeon who was going to operate was behind a heavy drape during part of the prep. He did a little dance while behind that drape. After he woke up the patient reported seeing the surgeon do that dance. There was no way he could have seen it from his vantage point while lying on the operating table...other medical personnel vouched for that fact, let alone while being under anesthesia. Stories like that fascinate me.

Those stories, and there are a good many out there, have swayed the opinions of some medical professionals about NDEs.

And responding in parts probably easier for everybody, no problem.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

@feywon I've watched a few documentaries about NDEs. Many of the subjects reported seeing the light, some within a tunnel, some not. Some reported that they were told it wasn't their time yet and to go back. But I don't remember ever seeing any subjects mentioning the actual "judgement" process.

I was reading a book that mentioned walk-ins but I didn't delve deeply into it and likely didn't finish the book (the pitfalls of having ADD). I think it may have been by Ruth Montgomery.

 

[Naturally]

@feywon But I don't remember ever seeing any subjects mentioning the actual "judgement" process.

No idea what your perception of the actual "judgement" process is or why you quoted the word judgement. Figure it may have something to do with your perception or maybe in regard or reference to something someone previously posted in this thread but dunno ma'am.

I will preface my comments and thoughts on the judgement with a disclaimer:
I feel that what I experienced was perhaps beyond my complete comprehension. I had the distinct feeling that my human mind/brain tried to put the experience into a context I might humanly understand. And perhaps the impressions I had were at least partially formed/ based on some of my past worldly events and experiences.

I shared my NDE here ... Dear Diary: Strange Dream (Spiritual in Nature) 1972

--- In relating my NDE, I noted that He took me through the light ...

Suddenly the light from above the left side of the wall became very overwhelmingly bright again in an instant !!! And the colorless wall and the beings faded away. After a moment, a supreme being dressed in shockingly immaculate white emerged from the light, making His his way down to where I stood. The supreme being stood with me and we had a long wordless conversation. Again with the wordless conversations! I have no idea what thought and ideas were discussed, only that the conversation was very profound, as though speaking honestly from the depths of my soul.

After some time, the supreme being led me up and into the light. I was not afraid. I was very calm. It just felt right.

--- And what I saw and found on the other side of the light ...

On the other side of the light was a room. The entire room, walls, ceiling, floor and it's single content, an elevated podium, appeared to be constructed of fine, rich, ancient wood. He led me to the podium as He then walked up and behind the podium. Up on the podium was the largest, thickest book I've ever seen in my life. He studied the book for some time and then asked me the first and only verbal question of the entire experience.

He asked, "Do you want to go forward or do you want to go back?" ... Without hesitation I answered, "I want to go back. She needs me." ... meaning Jan needs me.

Without another word, I backed away from the room, through and away from the light, back down the tunnel and awoke ... wondering why I went to sleep talking on the telephone and opened the door to find a very wide eyed Gilbert out to check on me on a very stormy night in heavy rain.

--- Thoughts on the judgement

There is no doubt in my mind that a judgement took place. I felt it began with the wordless conversation, the contents of which I do not know, with my higher power and my subsequent responses and contributions to the conversation "as though speaking honestly from the depths of my soul."

I felt I was being evaluated and judged during that wordless conversation. Just a feeling or sense because I have no idea what exactly the wordless conversation was ... just a feeling or sense.
It was a feeling or sense that the previous wordless conversation during the experience and with "cloaked beings" was in greetings as they had been waiting for me and as an effort to calm, reassure and sooth me in a caring way and to help prepare me for what would happen next.

On the other side of the light and in the room with a podium, I don't think He was reading Dr. Seuss from the largest, thickest book I've ever seen in my life. I felt there to be relevant information about me in that book and He studied all of it before pausing and asking me the only verbal question of the entire experience.

I was judged, offered a choice and He sent me back.

I hope this post is on topic. Maybe I only focused on the one word "judgement" and failed to see a larger picture of the thread conversation. But when I saw the word "judgement" ... it took me back a little bit to a stormy night in 1972.

Jim

 

[davey]

well posted Jim - Halellujah!!

 

[OneEyedDiva]

No idea what your perception of the actual "judgement" process is or why you quoted the word judgement. Figure it may have something to do with your perception or maybe in regard or reference to something someone previously posted in this thread but dunno ma'am.

I will preface my comments and thoughts on the judgement with a disclaimer:
I feel that what I experienced was perhaps beyond my complete comprehension. I had the distinct feeling that my human mind/brain tried to put the experience into a context I might humanly understand. And perhaps the impressions I had were at least partially formed/ based on some of my past worldly events and experiences.

I shared my NDE here ... Dear Diary: Strange Dream (Spiritual in Nature) 1972

--- In relating my NDE, I noted that He took me through the light ...

Suddenly the light from above the left side of the wall became very overwhelmingly bright again in an instant !!! And the colorless wall and the beings faded away. After a moment, a supreme being dressed in shockingly immaculate white emerged from the light, making His his way down to where I stood. The supreme being stood with me and we had a long wordless conversation. Again with the wordless conversations! I have no idea what thought and ideas were discussed, only that the conversation was very profound, as though speaking honestly from the depths of my soul.

After some time, the supreme being led me up and into the light. I was not afraid. I was very calm. It just felt right.

--- And what I saw and found on the other side of the light ...

On the other side of the light was a room. The entire room, walls, ceiling, floor and it's single content, an elevated podium, appeared to be constructed of fine, rich, ancient wood. He led me to the podium as He then walked up and behind the podium. Up on the podium was the largest, thickest book I've ever seen in my life. He studied the book for some time and then asked me the first and only verbal question of the entire experience.

He asked, "Do you want to go forward or do you want to go back?" ... Without hesitation I answered, "I want to go back. She needs me." ... meaning Jan needs me.

Without another word, I backed away from the room, through and away from the light, back down the tunnel and awoke ... wondering why I went to sleep talking on the telephone and opened the door to find a very wide eyed Gilbert out to check on me on a very stormy night in heavy rain.

--- Thoughts on the judgement

There is no doubt in my mind that a judgement took place. I felt it began with the wordless conversation, the contents of which I do not know, with my higher power and my subsequent responses and contributions to the conversation "as though speaking honestly from the depths of my soul."

I felt I was being evaluated and judged during that wordless conversation. Just a feeling or sense because I have no idea what exactly the wordless conversation was ... just a feeling or sense.
It was a feeling or sense that the previous wordless conversation during the experience and with "cloaked beings" was in greetings as they had been waiting for me and as an effort to calm, reassure and sooth me in a caring way and to help prepare me for what would happen next.

On the other side of the light and in the room with a podium, I don't think He was reading Dr. Seuss from the largest, thickest book I've ever seen in my life. I felt there to be relevant information about me in that book and He studied all of it before pausing and asking me the only verbal question of the entire experience.

I was judged, offered a choice and He sent me back.

I hope this post is on topic. Maybe I only focused on the one word "judgement" and failed to see a larger picture of the thread conversation. But when I saw the word "judgement" ... it took me back a little bit to a stormy night in 1972.

Jim

I mentioned the word judgement because my dear friend @feywon, who is so well versed and experienced in these matters posted this section in her first reply:
"Judgement or Life Review scenarios, the exact format and tone/feel of these is highly dependent on ones beliefs and expectations. Strictly religious people often perceive a very formal and truly 'judgemental' feel to these. For others it's less so and for some it starts of as strict of formal as they expected but evolves into something that feels more in the spirit of promoting one's understanding of the life just led. Often one comes to look things others said and did differently--as if you not only have access to all your own feelings/motives but theirs as well."

My point was that in the stories on the documentaries I saw, none of the people reported feeling that the process had a "judgmental feel" while experiencing their NDEs. Of course, sometimes docs show each person's story in segments switching from one person to another throughout the filming. It's possible I didn't finish watching (as is often the case with my ADD) and missed any mention of judgement or perceived judgement.

The account of your NDE is fascinating and powerful. Except for one man who felt the environment while experiencing his NDE was hellish, everyone else spoke of the calm and peace that you felt. And yes, your reply is on topic.

 

[feywon]

@feywon I've watched a few documentaries about NDEs. Many of the subjects reported seeing the light, some within a tunnel, some not. Some reported that they were told it wasn't their time yet and to go back. But I don't remember ever seeing any subjects mentioning the actual "judgement" process.

I was reading a book that mentioned walk-ins but I didn't delve deeply into it and likely didn't finish the book (the pitfalls of having ADD). I think it may have been by Ruth Montgomery.

'Judgement' most often pops up in accounts of those with strong religious beliefs.

i believe Ruth Montgomery coined the term 'walk-in'.

 

[Alligatorob]

I think near death experience stories are interesting, and they probably say something about us.

However I believe they are just what we call them near death experiences, and have nothing to do with after death.

Nobody knows what actual after death experience will be. Never will.

 

[Naturally]

Yet there have been accounts of "NDE" from those under medical observation who were clinically, medically dead.

My experience didn't have a term "NDE" for me at the time of occurrence because I'd never heard that term before.

In 1972, it would be years before I would read or hear of similar experiences.
And it would be several years before I could talk to anyone about my experience. It was just too profound and personal.

When I did finally hear about NDE's, I thought ... well similar but I had died and He sent me back.

I was "unconscious" for 10-12 minutes or so and only came to when He sent me back and I awoke to Gilbert beating on the door as he had been for some time and with no response. There was a very distinct culmination and resolution to "my dream" before I was allowed to awaken.

Those of us who have had a NDE try to explain something we have experienced and may not fully understand, often using words and phrases to fill in for an other worldly experience. Those who have never had a NDE, do the same.

EDIT: ... but no, you are correct @Alligatorob at least in my case perhaps ... maybe perhaps. I never made it past the "room" just on the other side of the light ... and I KNOW there was something more. He did indeed ask if I wanted to go forth or go back.

 

[Alligatorob]

Yet there have been accounts of "NDE" from those under medical observation who were clinically, medically dead.

But obviously not actually dead. Not by this definition anyway "The permanent cessation of all vital bodily functions." The key word is permanent. I think of it as irreversible brain death. The question is does some kind of consciousness follow that, I'm skeptical, but it is unproveable. Either way...

 

[Naturally]

I'd like to thank those who have responded here and in my "Diary" post with observations and opinions. Even after over 50yrs, I still try to figure out and understand something profoundly personal and puzzling to my human mind. I can only state in human terms and in my own words what happened and often mine too is only an opinion of perceptions. When permanently deceased, none of that likely will concern me. Who knows ...

EDIT: My (human) thinking at this moment is that perhaps when permanently deceased, we become part of a collective spirit community. Much in the same way the perceived cloaked figures in "my dream" were all the same with no discernible features or names, yet with an awareness all their own. The only distinct and identifiable in "my dream" was my higher power, a supreme being.

 

[Remy]

I myself have witnessed a good number of people die. I can see the moment when they are no longer alive. Even if they are only taking 2 or 3 breaths a minute they, are alive. Then they look different when they die.

I've never witnessed anything else. Some people say they have. I'm not tuned in to those things. But it is always very sad.

 

[feywon]

I myself have witnessed a good number of people die. I can see the moment when they are no longer alive. Even if they are only taking 2 or 3 breaths a minute they, are alive. Then they look different when they die.

I've never witnessed anything else. Some people say they have. I'm not tuned in to those things. But it is always very sad.

I was with my Dad when he died, we'd been caring for him at his home for 6 weeks. He had metastasized cancer. His last wife had died 2 yrs before, he missed her and was ready to go.

At one point he asked for his pistol. Told him i couldn't do that, but firmly believed it was between him and whatever he conceived God to be. 5-7 days later he was bed ridden, then started refusing all solids, he had a DNR, was technically under home hispice care, my then husband was gerontolgical nurse. Two weeks bedridden and he didn't have single bedsore when he died.

I believe he hung on that last week to hear the voice of his oldest friend one more time. They'd known each other from childhood, she was his first wife. They tried to reconcile a couple of times but never took. Her husband was jealous and paranoid, very controlling, so we couldn't call her for their goodbyes. Within a day of her he passed peacefully.

I totally agree about knowing when they pass, i feel it more than see. (Have experienced it with beloved animals too--the exiting of the soul/consciousness.). But i disagree that it is always sad. The living experience a sense of loss, but if the deceased had been suffering physically and/or mentally/emotionally. It is not sad for them. It is a release from bondage of the flesh.

I have had a couple of friends come to me distressed when a loved one in hospital dying. They hear other relatives pleading with the dying not to leave, but they know the loved one in pain or with virtually zero quality of life. I suggest they find, make or insist on a few minutes alone with the person and 'give them permission'.

Then tell them that while you love them, will miss them as everyone will but that you feel it is their choice. If they have faith or religion phrase it terms compatible with their beliefs: It is between you and God, much as we'll grieve it is not our choice and you shouldn't have to linger in this condition to please anyone else.

In every case, he ailing person has passed quickly, usually peacefully except for my Dad who needed that one last goodbye they went in 1-3 days, once in mere hours.

 

[Nathan]

Most commonly people report
Turning and seeing their bodies. Reports of people doing this in surgeries...

I recall as a child being under general anesthesia(tonsil removal) and floating above, looking down on the operating room scene.

 

[feywon]

I recall as a child being under general anesthesia(tonsil removal) and floating above, looking down on the operating room scene.

Once it is understood that consciousness exists independent of a physical body, is more than a byproduct of brain functions and social conditioning, the 'explanations' for other so called paranormal events become fairly simple.

What you describe was spontaneous astral travel, an OOBE. I was stuck in repeated ones as teenager when very ill but needed to get up to call my mother at work (she left before i normally got up for school) so she could call school to notify them.

 

[dobielvr]

This is all really interesting.
I have a question re: your NDE (questions lol)

Those of you that have had them, you seem to have total recall of what transpired.
Did the memories of your NDE come quickly and clearly?

Were you struggling to remember the series of events that happened?
Did you have any doubts that's what you'd experienced?

One last ?.......Did you tell anybody about it?

 

[Naturally]

This is all really interesting.
I have a question re: your NDE (questions lol)

Those of you that have had them, you seem to have total recall of what transpired.
Did the memories of your NDE come quickly and clearly?

Yes and after all these years, a milestone memory.
The first that comes to mind when thinking back to the age of 19 in 1972.
One of the first that comes to mind when reflecting on my life in its entirety.

Were you struggling to remember the series of events that happened?

No but I feel much more was going on than my human mind could comprehend.
In fact, I think my mind tried to put into context what was happening in such a way as I might understand.

Did you have any doubts that's what you'd experienced?

Well, I initially wondered why I went to sleep talking on the telephone.
I was struck by lightening that had gotten into the phone system while I was talking to my girlfriend.
I never felt a thing. Conscious and talking on the phone one instant and going down a dark tunnel toward a bright light the next instant.
Happened quicker than the snap of a finger.

One last ?.......Did you tell anybody about it?

It was an overwhelming, profound experience for me and I internalized it. I told no one about it. I couldn't bring myself to speak of it.
It wasn't something that ever came up in normal conversation in 1972. At the time I didn't know others had similar experiences.
In fact it wasn't until the mid to late 70's that I personally heard anything about such experiences.
An article in Reader's Digest was where I first saw mention of a NDE.
3yrs after it happened, my sister demanded, "Something happened that night and you are going to tell me about it right now."
I broke down in tears as I shared the experience for the first time with anyone.

 

[Naturally]

No but I feel much more was going on than my human mind could comprehend.
In fact, I think my mind tried to put into context what was happening in such a way as I might understand.

@dobielvr ... it was like a dream for me. A personally profound dream. A strange dream.
Have you ever had a dream that just didn't make any sense and your mind tried to understand?
Maybe even revisualized in some way or aspect in order to try and make sense?
Well, that's how it was for me.

I had no real life reference point to pin on what was occurring.
Found myself going through something I'd never experienced and couldn't fully understand.

What I experienced was not something of the mind but of the spiritual soul and in a whole 'nother world on a whole 'nother level.
So my mind tried to make sense of something that often defies purely mental understanding.
And tried to put the experience into a worldly context that I might understand.

I think these type experiences are as personal and individual as each person's mind, yet tied by a universal and profound commonality.

EDIT: I think it fair that some might speculate that it was only a dream after all. I understand. I do. But it wasn't.
Not once before nor since have I dreamed of meeting my higher power and Him send me back to the mortal world.

 

[dobielvr]

Thank you.
I'm going to read this again in the morning.
It's pretty heavy stuff...

 

[MarkD]

For @feywon, @Naturally and others interested in this thread in the most recent letter from my pen friend in Germany who worked as a nurse and then director of nursing in end of life care I got a very interesting response to my question to him about all this which I think may interest you too. If so I'd be interested in hearing responses if this prompts any. I have a lot of respect for his truthfulness, intellect and careful way with words. He is a senior like us and only a little more than a year younger than myself. Here he is responding to my having described myself as agnostic in regard to NDE's. I've divided his single paragraph into two to satisfy the site requirements.

With regard to NDEs, I am not agnostic as in not knowing, but rather, I don’t understand. In a way, that might equate with not knowing, but I do know they happen. I just don’t understand what is happening. I may speculate, but really, I only have to decide how to lead my life in the light of evidence, however spurious.

It is, in a way, like the old Luther quote: “Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.” It is, in a way, how we oppose the natural degeneration that we feel in our bones and make meaning. Some people might rather look forward to a great nothing, but I would rather hope for a great something, and it is the hope that is valuable, more than “knowing,” which could make us rather blasé about everything.

On the basis of his response and my regard for who and how he is I may have to change my purely agnostic status to one of strongly suspecting they are real but likewise not knowing what they are. But my evidence is once removed.

 

[Paco Dennis]

When I was 17 I had an OBE ( out of Body experience ). My Mom died at 13 my Dad became a drunk, My step mom suicided when I was 15, and my Dad abandoned my brother and I at 17. I was in the park on a crystal clear night, lying on a bench, gazing up at the stars. The next thing I know my friend is yelling at me . Apparently he had been trying to get my attention but I was somewhere else.

When I realized he was calling me my consciousness returned but not the same one that was lying on the bench. This consciousness didn't have any objects in it. I couldn't identify with words what I was seeing or experiencing. It was all just "one" thing. I later found out that I experienced "ego loss". It was the most powerful experience that has ever happened that has shaped my life. I never forget it. That frame of mind is always with me. So I was kind of "born again" that night.

 

[MarkD]

When I was 17 I had an OBE ( out of Body experience ). My Mom died at 13 my Dad became a drunk, My step mom suicided when I was 15, and my Dad abandoned my brother and I at 17. I was in the park on a crystal clear night, lying on a bench, gazing up at the stars. The next thing I know my friend is yelling at me . Apparently he had been trying to get my attention but I was somewhere else.

When I realized he was calling me my consciousness returned but not the same one that was lying on the bench. This consciousness didn't have any objects in it. I couldn't identify with words what I was seeing or experiencing. It was all just "one" thing. I later found out that I experienced "ego loss". It was the most powerful experience that has ever happened that has shaped my life. I never forget it. That frame of mind is always with me. So I was kind of "born again" that night.

That sounds horrible. You've been through a lot. I hope you are good to yourself now.