Female surgeons being assaulted

Old Salt said:
Then and now! Could or would they ever make a film like this nowadays where no really means no? It was one of my favourite films too!

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The song written in 1944 had a more recent change of words as it offended woke.

‘Tis the season for chestnuts roasting on an open fire and the 1944 holiday jingle “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” getting roasted for its heavily disputed lyrics. But it’s 2019, and John Legend and Kelly Clarkson released a new woke version of “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” on Friday (Nov. 8)......pathetic.
 

Rose65 said:
female surgeons are being sexually assaulted even as they operate,
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Female Surgeon: "Pass me the scalpel."

Male Assistant: "Here ya go!"

Female Surgeon: "That's not a scalpel, that's your pen!s."

Again, how exactly are women surgeons being sexually assaulted while they are operating??
 
Avon said:
Yes, as a child it was the norm. As I have posted before, poor shell-shocked men dressed in raincoats and bras and panties. Men trying to get us/me into their cars, and I was good at biting. The guy in the public toilet masturbating and ejaculating right in front of my face, me being that height, while asking me if I had seen this. Went out and told my Stepdad but he would not go in, reckon perhaps my birth father would have.
Then every time I drove my sports car past the Kaiser Bond factory, they made women's underwear, girls hanging out the windows howling and wolf-whistling. Then in my later 50 years of age life and I often had to visit the Convent School, the girls were as bad.
Then men in public toilets, large groups of men engaging in homosexual activities around me. My wife hates me going in, but that is not stopping me from having a pee.
But have I moaned about any of it in my life, no.
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What you accepted as typical behavior and called "the norm", is unacceptable. It was then, and it still is. Instead of having empathy for those who've been sexually assaulted, you berate them for not tolerating it. Because you accepted it and didn't "moan about any of it," that doesn't mean it should be acceptable to everyone else.
 
Sippican said:
Yes, I have...
If you use the term the way 'woke' people us it.
Women have put their hands on my arm while they talk, and leave it there....that is sexual assault by todays standards.
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I'm using the term ASSAULT. That does not mean putting your hand on someone's arm, which, depending on the circumstances, could constitute unacceptable behavior but is not se xual assault. And you know it.

Se xual harassment, se xual assault and rape by colleagues in the surgical workforce, and how women and men are living different realities: observational study using NHS population-derived weights: Sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape by colleagues in the surgical workforce, and how women and men are living different realities: observational study using NHS population-derived weights

Excerpt from the article:

"Se xual harassment, se xual assault, and rape, referred to as se xual misconduct, are unacceptable. Se xual misconduct occurs frequently and appears to go unchecked in the surgical environment owing to a combination of a deeply hierarchical structure and a gender and power imbalance. Se xual misconduct in surgery is not new, and se xual misconduct in wider healthcare is a global issue. Evidence from the UK, USA, Australia, and many other countries indicates that this is also a significant risk to patient safety."
 
Needless to say, I feel terribly sorry for any woman who is or has ever been truly sexually assaulted.

I am reacting to the change of climate. I miss the romance, the teasing, the flirting, yes, the much despised coyness of the "girl" who would say no because she didn't want to look promiscuous but felt like "yes" inside.

There were the small touches, on arm, on shoulder, the attempt to hold hands for the first time to let her know you were "into her." Nothing to do with sexual advances but I also miss the by-products of a more romantic era: sensuous things like lace, silk, perfume, soft music ... all gone in the name of equality!

Now every young man must worry about having his show of affection and attraction misinterpreted.

I, as a father of two daughters and three granddaughters fully support the fight for equality when it comes to pay and professional advancement, but sometimes I wonder, at what expense if women are starting to react act negatively to anything that could possibly be construed as sexually motivated or counter productive to equality!

Reading the report, and please I am not making light of this, the women had a genuine case but the report is based on what happened to them once during a five year period. Wouldn't you say this speaks well for most of us men in general?
 
Bella said:
What you accepted as typical behavior and called "the norm", is unacceptable. It was then, and it still is. Instead of having empathy for those who've been sexually assaulted, you berate them for not tolerating it. Because you accepted it and didn't "moan about any of it," that doesn't mean it should be acceptable to everyone else.
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Nope, I have not condoned or lacked any empathy for people who have been sexually assaulted of any sex. You have selected to bastardized the wording of my posts. Clearly, I do not support anybody being sexually assaulted. Where we differ is what constitutes sexual assault and what constitutes attention seeking, resulting from minor contact, minor banter and woke.
 
Avon said:
Nope, I have not condoned or lacked any empathy for people who have been sexually assaulted of any sex. You have selected to bastardized the wording of my posts. Clearly, I do not support anybody being sexually assaulted. Where we differ is what constitutes sexual assault and what constitutes attention seeking, resulting from minor contact, minor banter and woke.
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Enjoy your perpetual sleep. 💤
 
Bella said:
I'm using the term ASSAULT. That does not mean putting your hand on someone's arm, which, depending on the circumstances, could constitute unacceptable behavior but is not se xual assault. And you know it.

Se xual harassment, se xual assault and rape by colleagues in the surgical workforce, and how women and men are living different realities: observational study using NHS population-derived weights: Sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape by colleagues in the surgical workforce, and how women and men are living different realities: observational study using NHS population-derived weights

Excerpt from the article:

"Se xual harassment, se xual assault, and rape, referred to as se xual misconduct, are unacceptable. Se xual misconduct occurs frequently and appears to go unchecked in the surgical environment owing to a combination of a deeply hierarchical structure and a gender and power imbalance. Se xual misconduct in surgery is not new, and se xual misconduct in wider healthcare is a global issue. Evidence from the UK, USA, Australia, and many other countries indicates that this is also a significant risk to patient safety."
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And there lies the problem......
You're definition of sexual assault is different than mine.
Why should your definition supersede overrule mine? There are many interpretations depending on the person, the situation, the circumstances.

My point is many women use that trigger phrase for many situations.
Just because a woman claims sexual assault, doesn't mean it actually occurred as you defined. There have been many cases where these charges have been suspicious and once challenged in court, found that the woman lied.
Nothing of this magnitude can be accepted just a woman said so. All women are not that honest.
 
How we word things, how we say things, are all backwards these days given the 'woke' people that are offended by anything that doesn't align with their beliefs.
Just today, in the WSJ, an article talks about 'Feedback'. 'Some' women are offended by the word feedback and would like it changed to FeedForward.
The word salad that is coming from the woke community is a sad testament to the thin skinned society we have.
 
Old Salt said:
Avon, would you do me a huge favour and change your avatar! It creeps me out! :ROFLMAO:
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Ha Ha, would you believe I had to remove it on another forum as the mod said pictures of children are not allowed on the forum? No wonder I despair with the insanity on forums.

Alas I cannot find out how to do it.
 
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Avon said:
Ha Ha, would you believe I had to remove it on another forum as the mod said pictures of children are not allowed on the forum? No wonder I despair with the insanity on forums.

Alas I cannot find out how to do it.
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LOL. It wasn't the children part, the picture reminds me of a horror movie I saw some time ago. If you want to change your Avatar, click on your Icon and ask to change the picture, then go to any picture you keep on your hard drive and, bingo, a new avatar. I am switching back to Peggy's Cove Lighthouse right after this, since I like it better than the sails!

Oh, now I remember, the scary character was called "Chuckie!" :)
 
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Avon said:
The song written in 1944 had a more recent change of words as it offended woke.

‘Tis the season for chestnuts roasting on an open fire and the 1944 holiday jingle “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” getting roasted for its heavily disputed lyrics. But it’s 2019, and John Legend and Kelly Clarkson released a new woke version of “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” on Friday (Nov. 8)......pathetic.
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If you watch the video all the way through you'll see a cute version where it's the woman trying to get the man to stay. (Betty Garret and Red Skelton I think.)
 
I'm not surprised that this is happening. It's probably been going on for a long time. Often, women (especially if they want to keep their jobs) do not speak out due to fear. That is compounded when the man is well know, well respected, famous, etc. It's disgusting to say the least. But now, more men are being called out for their behavior and of course, some of them are losing their jobs and the respect they once commanded.
 
Well, it doesn't bode well for us patients. We need operations and for the operators to concentrate on saving our lives. Rather than wandering hands elsewhere!
It just sounds like a Carry On film but not at all funny.
 
Rose65 said:
Well, it doesn't bode well for us patients. We need operations and for the operators to concentrate on saving our lives. Rather than wandering hands elsewhere!
It just sounds like a Carry On film but not at all funny.
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I can agree with that. When I had my pacemaker fitted and leads thread through to my heart it was the first start-up after covid and those in the room seemed to be training. It took 2.5 hours, normally 1.5 I believe, and ruddy well hurt as I was bent over on the site of my back surgery. I kept my eyes closed throughout and felt a nurse hold my hand, which was comforting, not sexy for the mentally distorted.
Then the guy inserting the leads said to her "This is the only time you come close to me" and the nurse promptly let go of me. I opened my eyes to see who was doing what to me, and it was a Pakistani guy and at best I do not like PB as they cheat at cricket and rip a person off on eBay, adding my best friend is coming down next week and is Pakistani. Next, a voice said, that perhaps there was too much talking going on as they were messing about some. All ok except one lead might have been put too close to a nerve and pulses it.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
I'm not surprised that this is happening. It's probably been going on for a long time. Often, women (especially if they want to keep their jobs) do not speak out due to fear. That is compounded when the man is well know, well respected, famous, etc. It's disgusting to say the least. But now, more men are being called out for their behavior and of course, some of them are losing their jobs and the respect they once commanded.
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Yes, this was one bad man that should be punished, I agree.
But to lump all men that are managers as 'suspect' is wrong, and that is what this 'woke' is all about.
As a manager, I love to hire women and hated to hire women, for two different reasons.
1) I found that women are great as task/project management. Their attention to detail was always outstanding. They multi-task and can juggle projects equally and at the level needed, without dropping the ball.
2) I hated to hire women because a) You didn't know what baggage you were getting emotionally. b) You couldn't treat them as equals because there was always the chance of a disagreement turning into an HR encounter that is fabricated. And of course, HR would always agree with the women regardless of the circumstances. I have seen good men lose their careers over a power hungry woman wanting a higher position regardless of what moral ethics needed to be stepped on.
Thank God I am out of the workforce.
 
Sippican said:
Yes, this was one bad man that should be punished, I agree.
But to lump all men that are managers as 'suspect' is wrong, and that is what this 'woke' is all about.
As a manager, I love to hire women and hated to hire women, for two different reasons.
1) I found that women are great as task/project management. Their attention to detail was always outstanding. They multi-task and can juggle projects equally and at the level needed, without dropping the ball.
2) I hated to hire women because a) You didn't know what baggage you were getting emotionally. b) You couldn't treat them as equals because there was always the chance of a disagreement turning into an HR encounter that is fabricated. And of course, HR would always agree with the women regardless of the circumstances. I have seen good men lose their careers over a power hungry woman wanting a higher position regardless of what moral ethics needed to be stepped on.
Thank God I am out of the workforce.
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If we're talking about first hand experience..........

What's REALLY difficult is hiring men and women of a certain age. I found that hiring a woman into a male team at say, 20 years of age, can be problematic because - and I stress this is first hand experience - they have no issue dating other team members. This can be disruptive, and it's hard to stay on top of, especially if there's a break up. In another instance in my career I was working for a software company who had a Christmas party, and two of the sales team were younger women. One of them skipped most of the party because they were "entertaining" in their hotel room. This stuff goes on, and it can be consensual.

This has never been an issue for me because I've never been "the catch". :D I strived to be equal to all my staff, which means putting up a bit of a wall. Staying professional demands you're a bit like a bank manager at all times, often you can't be yourself. Such is life.

Harrasment happens when someones approach is unwanted. But in my experience it's never as easy as simply stating things shouldn't ever happen between people. In fact, you can't stop it!
 
VaughanJB said:
If we're talking about first hand experience..........

What's REALLY difficult is hiring men and women of a certain age. I found that hiring a woman into a male team at say, 20 years of age, can be problematic because - and I stress this is first hand experience - they have no issue dating other team members. This can be disruptive, and it's hard to stay on top of, especially if there's a break up. In another instance in my career I was working for a software company who had a Christmas party, and two of the sales team were younger women. One of them skipped most of the party because they were "entertaining" in their hotel room. This stuff goes on, and it can be consensual.

This has never been an issue for me because I've never been "the catch". :D I strived to be equal to all my staff, which means putting up a bit of a wall. Staying professional demands you're a bit like a bank manager at all times, often you can't be yourself. Such is life.

Harrasment happens when someones approach is unwanted. But in my experience it's never as easy as simply stating things shouldn't ever happen between people. In fact, you can't stop it!
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Trust me, bank managers are the worst sometimes.
So glad I'm out of the work force!
 
Old Salt said:
LOL. It wasn't the children part, the picture reminds me of a horror movie I saw some time ago. If you want to change your Avatar, click on your Icon and ask to change the picture, then go to any picture you keep on your hard drive and, bingo, a new avatar. I am switching back to Peggy's Cove Lighthouse right after this, since I like it better than the sails!

Oh, now I remember, the scary character was called "Chuckie!" :)
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That better for you grumps.

I like the sea and sails. My family on my father's side owned and were masters of sailing ships that delivered goods across the pond and to Europe, mainly from Padstow in Cornwall going way back. Many a tale of shipwrecks and smugglers in the family history.
 
Avon said:
Ha Ha, would you believe I had to remove it on another forum as the mod said pictures of children are not allowed on the forum? No wonder I despair with the insanity on forums.

Alas I cannot find out how to do it.
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I think this should be your avatar, Avon.
61MWYvXaruL._SY425_.jpg
 

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