'China has 10 years left, at most' - 100m population drop could lead to economic disaster

Paco Dennis

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Mid-Missouri
Is a world recession beginning?

Renowned geopolitical analyst Peter Zeihan recently made a startling prediction during an interview with commentator Joe Rogan.

Zeihan believes that China's collapse is imminent, with only 10 years remaining before potential disaster. The crux of his prediction lies in his assertion that China has misrepresented its population numbers, leading him to estimate that the country's actual population is lower by 100 million than what the government has officially reported.
"This is their last decade," Zeihan said of China. When Rogan clarified by asking, So, you're saying that China has 10 years to go?" His response was, "At most."
Some argue that China's massive military, control over its people and economic power are safeguards against its demise, but others point to concerning signs that hint at potential challenges ahead.

China's economy is showing signs of strain from various angles. Civil unrest erupted as a result of its strict zero-COVID policy, leading to lockdowns, reduced industrial output and restrained consumer spending.

Last year, economic growth experienced a significant decline, reaching one of its lowest levels in the past 50 years. The fourth quarter, in particular, was severely impacted by strict economic policies and political decisions that were deemed unwise.

With China's population aging rapidly, there are fewer working-age people to support retirees. The one-child policy, which lasted for more than three decades before ending in 2016, worsened the situation and threatens long-term economic prospects. While China has attempted to address this by allowing couples to have up to three children, the extent of its impact on the workforce remains uncertain.

The Chinese real estate market has been grappling with a prolonged slump. In 2022, the country saw another major drop in home prices, marking the steepest annual drop since 2015. The downturn has reverberated through various sectors of the economy, including construction, steel and cement, causing a decline in demand and leading to job losses and an overall slowdown in economic growth.

The ongoing real estate slump has become a major cause for concern for the Chinese government. To counter the decline and stabilize the market, the government has implemented a range of measures, including tax breaks and subsidies for homebuyers. Despite these efforts, the decline in home prices has persisted, posing a significant challenge for policymakers seeking effective solutions.

The country's exports also saw a 9.9% drop from the previous year. Trade plays a significant role in China's economy, with exports accounting for around 20% of its gross domestic product in 2021. But this reliance on international trade makes China susceptible to global economic fluctuations and trade policy shifts, as demonstrated during the COVID-19 pandemic when demand for Chinese products declined.

China is now attempting to pivot toward domestic consumption to drive growth, with electric car manufacturers showing promise in leading the way. Nevertheless, a comprehensive shift will necessitate significant changes in China's economic structure and policies.

While the International Monetary Fund predicts China's economy will grow 5.2% (an increase from its previous 4.4% forecast), the economic headwinds and demographic challenges facing the nation could have significant implications on a global scale. Any slowdown in the Chinese economy may trigger price pressures in the U.S. and impact the demand for American products.


https://www.benzinga.com/news/23/07...drop-could-lead-to-economic-disaster-accordin
 

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I don’t care much what a famed expert says. If you have to tell me you are famous, then you probably aren’t worth your salt, IMO.

But, I do think China has self-limited itself with the return to more authoritarian rule we have seen developing over the last decade. A country’s greatest resource is the creativity and drive of its people. Authoritarian leaders do not like to see much of those qualities. The first danger sign is a hostile intolerance towards anybody who disagrees with them. I get suspicious of any country that has had the same ruler(s) for much over 12 years.

We need to be careful we donā€˜t do the same. For starters avoid one party rule in your country or state. I would go so far as to say vote for somebody you don’t like if most of the state is run by people you agree with. Power goes to their heads all too quickly.
 
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Term limits for all is a start. In the Ohio State Senate, you can be elected to 2 consecutive terms for the office you are in & then you have to step down. You can run again after you have sat out a term, but I can't recall where anyone in my area was re-elected if they tried again.

I would like to see that for all offices, especially at the local levels.
 
Is a world recession beginning?
Oh, probably recessions have always "been starting", just not sure when we will feel the effects of the next one. To quote Wikipedia:

According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), "Global recessions seem to occur over a cycle lasting between eight and 10 years." The IMF takes many factors into account when defining a global recession. Until April 2009, IMF several times communicated to the press, that a global annual real GDP growth of 3.0% or less in their view was "equivalent to a global recession".

By this measure, six periods since 1970 qualify: 1974–1975, 1980–1983, 1990–1993, 1998, 2001–2002, and 2008–2009. During what IMF in April 2002 termed the past three global recessions of the last three decades, global per capita output growth was zero or negative, and IMF argued—at that time—that because of the opposite being found for 2001, the economic state in this year by itself did not qualify as a global recession.

In April 2009, IMF had changed their Global recession definition to "A decline in annual per‑capita real World GDP (purchasing power parity weighted), backed up by a decline or worsening for one or more of the seven other global macroeconomic indicators: Industrial production, trade, capital flows, oil consumption, unemployment rate, per‑capita investment, and per‑capita consumption." By this new definition, a total of four global recessions took place since World War II: 1975, 1982, 1991 and 2009. All of them only lasted one year, although the third would have lasted three years (1991–1993) if IMF as criteria had used the normal exchange rate weighted per‑capita real World GDP rather than the purchase power parity weighted per‑capita real World GDP.


I kind of doubt that
China's collapse is imminent, with only 10 years remaining before potential disaster
But it's power may well be peaking. Remember when we all feared Japan taking over or buying up the world? Their economy peaked and we don't worry about them anymore. Big difference is Japan is a stable democracy, China isn't...

I believe China is here to stay, but predicting its future is hard, and it would not surprise me to see China peak economically.
 
Apr.24,2023

Another expert's point of view on a current event.

A BRICS Currency Could Shake the Dollar’s Dominance​


BRICS-CHINA-BRAZIL-DOLLAR-GettyImages-1251811034.png

Chinese President Xi Jinping (R) and Brazilian President Luiz InƔcio Lula da Silva shake hands in Beijing on April 1

Talk of de-dollarization is in the air. Last month, in New Delhi, Alexander Babakov, deputy chairman of Russia’s State Duma, said that Russia is now spearheading the development of a new currency. It is to be used for cross-border trade by the BRICS nations: Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. Weeks later, in Beijing, Brazil’s president, Luiz InĆ cio Lula da Silva, chimed in. ā€œEvery night,ā€ he said, he asks himself ā€œwhy all countries have to base their trade on the dollar.ā€

These developments complicate the narrative that the dollar’s reign is stable because it is the one-eyed money in a land of blind individual competitors like the euro, yen, and yuan. As one economist put it, ā€œEurope is a museum, Japan is a nursing home, and China is a jail.ā€ He’s not wrong. But a BRICS-issued currency would be different. It’d be like a new union of up-and-coming discontents who, on the scale of GDP, now collectively outweigh not only the reigning hegemon, the United States, but the entire G-7 weight class put together.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/24/brics-currency-end-dollar-dominance-united-states-russia-china/

To complicate the mess further....more weapons from our military industrial complex

24 hrs ago

The US has announced a military aid package worth $345 million for Taiwan, marking the first time it will send arms directly to Taipei.

The White House said the package would include defence, education and training for the Taiwanese and draw weapons from US stockpiles.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/29/us-taiwan-weapons-own-stockpile/
 
A BRICS Currency Could Shake the Dollar’s Dominance
I worry about this.

No matter BRICS, Euro, BitCoin, or whatever, when the dollar is replaced I fear we will have some real economic problems.

One of our most lucrative exports has been the US dollar, people are buying and holding all over the world. When that ends it won't be fun. About I all I can hope for is not to live to see it.

America’s Most Profitable Export: Money
The world has a growing appetite for small green pieces of paper with Benjamin Franklin on the front.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/opinion/sunday/money-dollar-100.html
 
There is nothing wrong with a BRICs currency. It won't replace the US Dollar for all transactions, however. Should the US ever get pushed into default by short-sighted politicians....well, that's a complication you wouldn't want to see. But even if the USD falls to 40% of global transactions, we'd be fine.

We are the foremost consumer economy in the world. China has no chance of dethroning the US now, altho India is trying hard as they are now the #1 in total population. If you want to sell to us, you must do it in USD conversions. No consumer is going to pay Toyota in yen for their Camry or RAV hybrid made in Kentucky.
 
Apparently China had deflation last month. If that keeps up, their economy may not be so healthy.
China's economy has not been healthy since the pandemic. You cannot shut down an economy of a billion people for months on end and not expect serious consequences. Unemployment for their recent college graduates is over 40% unemployed: too many graduates, not enough jobs.
 
The OP's article was for a Wall Street audience of like minded people in which life is all about $$$ and investments. For them, endless Earth monkey population and infrastructure growth is their ticket to a dream of possibly being wealthy during their life times. Economic Disaster? About the only goal they selfishly care about. To he!! with our fragile planet and human world's future.
 
What's the PZ stand for?

USA's demographic doesn't have nearly as wide a gap as China, which will widen even further in the coming decade. Also, the structure and base of it's economy is quite different.
PZ is Peter Ziehan.

I agree with you about our demographic & economy compared to what China has for both.
 
Zeihan's primary market appears to be large corporations, industry organizations, and the like. I think this tends to color his opinions somewhat, but he always tends to be a lagging echo of whichever group controls the White House. For example since Biden came in he has slowly leaned back into war mongering though remaining critical of his foreign policy in general. I suspect it is less about his own politics at any moment than what his market is feeling.

His message on China has remained pretty consistent though, even before the fudged population figures became irrefutable. It isn't just a China story though, Canada for example is in a population decline panic of its own. They have become radically pro-immigration while at the same time just as radically selective. Parts of Maine are filling up with Canada's rejected "undesirables" from Africa and the Caribbean.
 
Zeihan's primary market appears to be large corporations, industry organizations, and the like. I think this tends to color his opinions somewhat, but he always tends to be a lagging echo of whichever group controls the White House. For example since Biden came in he has slowly leaned back into war mongering though remaining critical of his foreign policy in general. I suspect it is less about his own politics at any moment than what his market is feeling.

His message on China has remained pretty consistent though, even before the fudged population figures became irrefutable. It isn't just a China story though, Canada for example is in a population decline panic of its own. They have become radically pro-immigration while at the same time just as radically selective. Parts of Maine are filling up with Canada's rejected "undesirables" from Africa and the Caribbean.
Zeihan is a bit confused, imo. In terms of foreign markets, Biden is very much a protectionist. I don't think Zeihan recognizes that. Or, at best, he's misconstruing it.

The US and Canada are both experiencing a population decline, however, both countries have a large enough population of Under 40s that there's no need for panic.

China's population decline is the largest in the whole world in all recorded time, their 20s and 30s pop. are simply not having kids...none aside from maybe some farmers who do not contribute financially to Chinese society, and the Under 40s pop. is relatively minuscule right now.

China can not bounce back from this.

This will effect the West, including the US, because when you factor in China's declining economy, their astronomical unemployment rate, and insurmountable shipping disturbances and over-costs associated with the war in Ukraine, there will soon be no more Made in China. We will be receiving zip.

We can start our own production of at least industrial essentials like transmission towers and transformers such. I predict we'll wait too long, but it's totally do-able.
 
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Zeihan is a bit confused, imo. In terms of foreign markets, Biden is very much a protectionist. I don't think Zeihan recognizes that. Or, at best, he's misconstruing it.
I don't think so. He's said the same thing many times, doubling down on things Trump did and then taking them in even more directions. In many ways Biden is far to the right of Trump. It probably only means that Left-Right is too simplistic a labeling spectrum for individual people in politics.
 
The more I consider it, the more it feels like I know nothing. I should stay in my lane... which appears to be a game trail winding through the woods.
 
What's the PZ stand for?

USA's demographic doesn't have nearly as wide a gap as China, which will widen even further in the coming decade. Also, the structure and base of it's economy is quite different.

If you look at birth rates and age demographics, IMO, US's total population is different from China's. BUT
US's population is growing rather rapidly from legal and illegal immigration in the population brackets that matters the most. Take away the the illegal immigration population, the US's picture may be quite similar to China's. China has very small in migration and a large out bound population.

the World's population is stabilizing. the Developed World is in population decline except for those with immigration, wanted or not.

No idea how this is going to play out. PZ has some interesting thoughts, but there could be other scenarios.
 


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