Derek Chauvin stabbed in prison:

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SeaBreeze said:
Good post, and I agree. There are many good officers in this country, and bad cops like this killer leave a poor reflection on them all. There is no doubt, if Mr. Floyd was a white man, he'd still be alive and breathing today. No doubt.
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Yes and no cop that covers up for the bad ones is truly good. They're part of the problem.

I'm appreciative of the police but I expect them to follow the law too.
 

againstthegrain said:
Maybe if MN didn't have qualified immunity for police Chauvin and many other cops would have a different outlook and/or would have been removed after facing lawsuits from civilians that filed complaints against him instead of their complaints meeting the blue wall of silence.
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To start with, QI does not protect an officer from internal discipline.Second, QI is not a total shield from civil lawsuits either. Just as Judges have Judicial or Absolute immunity. This is necessary to prevent a person who simply did not like a Judges decision, could file suit.
 

Rakaia said:
I did not say that at all, yet you claim that I did.
Maybe now you can begin to comprehend why I facetiously stated that I never said you were a racist.
If you want to be reliant on facts learn the difference between a statement and a question.
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OK, it was in the form of a question [my bad] but the implication was there still the same. From your post #132

"Are you so naive to think that no cop ever did anything wrong?"


I do know the difference and what you are trying say.
 
In this thread , it sounds as though some here are trying very hard too make this about me .... and my opinions on the topic.

As opposed to making it just about the stabbing of officer Chauvin &/or the death of the street criminal Floyd.
 
Knight said:
I agree that any witnesses black or white would surely keep their mouths shut. Since what if's are part of this.
1.What if Chauvin wasn't a cop?
2.What if any of the three other cops stepped in and pulled Chauvin off Floyd?
3.What if Floyd didn't resist when cops were trying to place him in the back of the police car.
4.What if the store manager hadn't accused Floyd of passing a phony $20.00 bill

1.Chauvin was a cop doing what cops are supposed to do. Seek out the accused & place under arrest.
2.he other three were convicted because they didn't
3.No resistance no need for the tactic used
4.The store manager did and that began the series of events that caused Cauvin to show up to begin his duty to do what his job was about.

What if the journalist writing the article included race & motive? Would we be posting about this?
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Mock my "what if" comment if you think that's clever. Here's another "what if":
What if Chauvin did his job properly...Floyd would still be alive, and Chauvin would not be in prison, with a stab wound.
 
rgp said:
In this thread , it sounds as though some here are trying very hard too make this about me .... and my opinions on the topic.

As opposed to making it just about the stabbing of officer Chauvin &/or the death of the street criminal Floyd.
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No, don't take my remarks personally.
In my view it's about attitudes and the language used.
The word *JUST* is often a red flag 🚩 because this is not just about Chauvin and Floyd, it's also about emotive and descriptive language which can and does escalate or de-escalate a situation.
I might describe Floyd as an AOD (alcohol and other drugs) user who had made some mistakes in his life choices. As a community services and mental health worker I use industry terminology and try not to let my bias show.
I was raised to respect the Police, I don't despise them as many do but my life experience has made me suspicious of many. In my current work I have to deal with them quite often and it's always interesting to watch each interaction. Some are brilliant others not so good, Australian police would be less paranoid about the prospect of having a firearm incident than the likes of MPD.
As previously mentioned it's clear that the MPD has issues which need to be addressed. If Chauvin had not made an error of judgement Floyd's chances of survival would have improved. To say that drugs killed Floyd is disingenuous at best.
 
ohioboy said:
To start with, QI does not protect an officer from internal discipline.Second, QI is not a total shield from civil lawsuits either. Just as Judges have Judicial or Absolute immunity. This is necessary to prevent a person who simply did not like a Judges decision, could file suit.
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The blue wall of silence protects him from internal discipline.

QI as per wiki:

"Starting around 2005, courts increasingly applied the doctrine [Qualified Immunity] to cases involving the use of excessive or deadly force by police, leading to widespread criticism that it "has become a nearly failsafe tool to let police brutality go unpunished and deny victims their constitutional rights" (as summarized in a 2020 Reuters report).[7]"
 
Courts do not decide the issue of unreasonable force, juries do that, unless it is a bench trial, so I question the accuracy of that Reuters reports. True, a defendant may move for a Directed verdict or move for a Summary Judgment etc., then the court itself decides. If a Plaintiff loses at the trial level in Civil court, then an Appeal can be filed. To add, QI does not pertain to a criminal trial.
 
ohioboy said:
Courts do not decide the issue of unreasonable force, juries do that, unless it is a bench trial, so I question the accuracy of that Reuters reports. True, a defendant may move for a Directed verdict or move for a Summary Judgment etc., then the court itself decides. If a Plaintiff loses at the trial level in Civil court, then an Appeal can be filed. To add, QI does not pertain to a criminal trial.
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Ok counselor. Any time you want to correct Reuters you can submit it to Wiki, I'm sure they'll get right on it.
 
Nathan said:
Mock my "what if" comment if you think that's clever. Here's another "what if":
What if Chauvin did his job properly...Floyd would still be alive, and Chauvin would not be in prison, with a stab wound.
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I wasn't mocking your what if. What ifs are about questioning events and various points that could have affected the outcome that did in fact happen.

IMO Chauvin was doing his job properly until he wasn't. The until he wasn't was the reason he & 3 others were put thru the justice system. There is no disputing that.

Why after 3 plus years he was stabbed we don't have an answer. I take no joy in reading about a man serving his sentence being stabbed. There are some that do. This comment/post says it all

"Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...."
 
Rakaia said:
No, don't take my remarks personally.
In my view it's about attitudes and the language used.
The word *JUST* is often a red flag 🚩 because this is not just about Chauvin and Floyd, it's also about emotive and descriptive language which can and does escalate or de-escalate a situation.
I might describe Floyd as an AOD (alcohol and other drugs) user who had made some mistakes in his life choices. As a community services and mental health worker I use industry terminology and try not to let my bias show.
I was raised to respect the Police, I don't despise them as many do but my life experience has made me suspicious of many. In my current work I have to deal with them quite often and it's always interesting to watch each interaction. Some are brilliant others not so good, Australian police would be less paranoid about the prospect of having a firearm incident than the likes of MPD.
As previously mentioned it's clear that the MPD has issues which need to be addressed. If Chauvin had not made an error of judgement Floyd's chances of survival would have improved. To say that drugs killed Floyd is disingenuous at best.
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Walking into a woman's home and sticking a gun in her belly .... to rob her, is not making a mistake. That is a planned [attack] against an innocent person. Any criminal that sets out to commit a crime against us ... is not making mistakes. They are committing crimes, and I have no forgivness for them.

As for the drugs in his system / killing him ... read the autopsy reports. Not just the one but the one or two others as well.
 
@rgp
Despite all this crap going down in family's home town I've just realised something important.
This is not my circus nor my monkeys, life's cheap Stateside.
 
Knight said:
I wasn't mocking your what if. What ifs are about questioning events and various points that could have affected the outcome that did in fact happen.

IMO Chauvin was doing his job properly until he wasn't. The until he wasn't was the reason he & 3 others were put thru the justice system. There is no disputing that.

Why after 3 plus years he was stabbed we don't have an answer. I take no joy in reading about a man serving his sentence being stabbed. There are some that do. This comment/post says it all

"Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...."
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There is no "answer", prison inmates wait for the best opportunity to strike...
 
Knight said:
I take no joy in reading about a man serving his sentence being stabbed. There are some that do. This comment/post says it all

"Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...."
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To be clear, I didn't root for anything bad to happen to Chauvin while he was in prison, nor did I take joy in the news. Agreed that he was victimized in prison while serving his sentence, and shouldn't have been stabbed. As I said in earlier posts, the American prison system is a violent, dysfunctional, abhorrent mess.

While all that's true, my sympathy for Chauvin is limited. Very, very, very limited.
 
StarSong said:
To be clear, I didn't root for anything bad to happen to Chauvin while he was in prison, nor did I take joy in the news. Agreed that he was victimized in prison while serving his sentence, and shouldn't have been stabbed. As I said in earlier posts, the American prison system is a violent, dysfunctional, abhorrent mess.

While all that's true, my sympathy for Chauvin is limited. Very, very, very limited.
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You're better than me Star because my sympathy is nil.
 
I thought about this yesterday. When I read the thread title I didn't remember who Chauvin was.
Rehashing the crime Chauvin was accused of & found guilty. Why, who, did the stabbing isn't known.

Rehashing the known amounts to.
1. A shop owner accused Floyd of passing a phony $20.00 bill
2. Chauvin was the officer trying to detain Floyd
3. Floyd resisted.
4. Chauvin used approved [at that time] police tactic to subdue Floyd from resisting.
5. Protocol wasn't followed in use of that police tactic.
6. Because protocol wasn't followed Chauvin was tried & convicted & sentenced to 22 years in prison.
7. Peripheral to what took place at the time.. Floyd was tested later & found to have drugs in his system.

I have no feelings either way about something I forgot about. Just wanted to participate by expressing an opinion in an ongoing thread. My overall opinion. The article succeeded in generating opinions based on use of a name that caused good changes to be made in police work.
 
Knight said:
I thought about this yesterday. When I read the thread title I didn't remember who Chauvin was.
Rehashing the crime Chauvin was accused of & found guilty. Why, who, did the stabbing isn't known.

Rehashing the known amounts to.
1. A shop owner accused Floyd of passing a phony $20.00 bill
2. Chauvin was the officer trying to detain Floyd
3. Floyd resisted.
4. Chauvin used approved [at that time] police tactic to subdue Floyd from resisting.
5. Protocol wasn't followed in use of that police tactic.
6. Because protocol wasn't followed Chauvin was tried & convicted & sentenced to 22 years in prison.
7. Peripheral to what took place at the time.. Floyd was tested later & found to have drugs in his system.

I have no feelings either way about something I forgot about. Just wanted to participate by expressing an opinion in an ongoing thread. My overall opinion. The article succeeded in generating opinions based on use of a name that caused good changes to be made in police work.
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What are arresting officers supposed to do ?

I mean, they are not permitted to strike , use a night stick, or an ASP, not permitted to use any form of choking maneuver [or anything that is deemed a choking maneuver], not permitted to shoot them , TASERS are now being challenged , mace is as well. I mean just what are they supposed to do, to make the arrest? Ask nicely that the suspect come along quietly ? ... yeah I'm sure that will happen.

It is afterall us against them when it comes to crime/criminals ..... And the police are on the front line of us.
 
@rgp not as popular as news goes but in the UK this happened in Sept of 2023. Not seeing any outrage for the death of Chris Kaba.

London police call for backup as officers lay down guns after colleague charged with murder
World Sep 25, 2023 1:59 PM EST
LONDON (AP) — London police have been forced to call on neighboring departments and the military for backup after scores of specially trained firearms officers refused to carry guns after a murder charge was filed against one of their colleagues.

Some firearms officers decided not to carry their guns after prosecutors last week filed murder charges against an officer who was involved in the shooting of an unarmed Black man in south London on Sept. 5, 2022. Chris Kaba, 24, died after he was struck by a single gunshot fired into the car he was driving.

London police call for backup as officers lay down guns after colleague charged with murder
 
The Police Federation has said it is "seriously concerned and bitterly disappointed" after a judge ruled a Metropolitan Police firearms officer charged with murder will be publicly named.

The officer, who had previously been known only as NX121, is facing trial at the Old Bailey over the shooting of 24-year-old Chris Kaba in Streatham Hill, south London, on 6 September 2022.

In a ruling at the Old Bailey, judge Mark Lucraft said the police officer will be named publicly on 30 January.

The judge said the officer's date of birth will be made public next year, but their home address or any image of them cannot be published.

The Crown Prosecution Service's decision to bring a murder charge sparked concern among some police officers as more than 100 Met officers refused to carry their weapons.

The crisis has since been resolved as they returned to normal duties, but armed officers around the country said before today's ruling they might down their guns if the officer was publicly named.

Steve Hartshorn, chair of the Police Federation of England and Wales (PFEW), said in a statement after the judge's ruling: "PFEW is seriously concerned and bitterly disappointed about the potential ramifications of publishing the officer's name and date of birth in January 2024.

"We know that this concern is shared by many officers of all ranks and roles across the country, but more so in the world of armed policing as they understand the threat and risk taken in the protection of the public more so than others.

"Officers are not looking to be above the law, but they must have confidence that they have the protection needed to do the difficult and dangerous job society expects of them."

Meanwhile, Harry Tangye, a former armed response officer for Devon and Cornwall Police, told Sky News: "I think [the judge's ruling) is going to have a huge impact on recruitment.

"Recruitment for armed response was probably bad enough, but now even if a potential officer was keen to joined the armed response, their families are going to say 'not on your nelly, you do not do that'.

"For the same money police officers can do frontline policing, which is just as difficult but doesn't hold the risks."
 

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