Two year old forced to take part in Rosa Parks re-enactment

[VaughanJB]

This is ridiculous. I'm finished playing... I started pitying you a little bit because ... well, never mind why... and tried to show kindness in the last few posts, but I'm tired of it now. You have a counter point for everything that's said and sparring with someone who won't listen and who'd argue if I'd say the sky is blue is tiring. So.... carry on with anyone who'll put up with such BS. Ain't gonna be me.

Kate - IT WAS A JOKE. Hence the smiley.

Blimey. I thought it was more a conversation, not a "counter point". Oh well........... Sorry if it upset you.

 

[papa tiger]

This is just my thoughts.
Jealousy and I'm better than you are thinking / racism is all over the world. Signing petitions to put a stop to it ?

Trying to keep it out of or mastered in our homes is a job well done. Well that's my thoughts. People who harm others need dealt with.

An LEO once said there is no explanation of how the human mind works. One endures it with each case. Basically nutz is
nutz and hate is hate. Hatred and Nutz are hatred and nutz. The more humans in a given area, the crazier it gets, becomes.

Never end a sentence with a preposition. Although it is not grammatically incorrect it drives 1 in 5 persons nutz. So you see human nature right at its best / worst right there with how you say something, not what you say, possibly.

Sort of like making it easier to read here. ..... You know, it's like 3 or 4 different languages spoken in the same room at the same time. ..... It brings a story to me from my Childhood. So, its before AC and the windows are all up.

Playing with my Cap Gun I'm shooting into the windows of the house Pretending. It ticks my mom off and she comes out the back door and chases me all over the yard. I fast and she doesn't catch me. So she yells, "If I see you again before supper, I'm a gonna kill you!" Sure, it changed my Behavorial, dysfunctional attitude about shooting in the house windows.

I guess Pre School to me at 2-4 years old is crazy. What happened to Romper Room, the Table coloring and playing with the Pink Dino. Building Brains at 2-4 years seems way to early, sitting in school desks all in a row maybe for hours? & should be left to Public Schools and those.

What has happened to children? Are they losing the will to play a lot? Well that's my thought. In my neighborhood children seldom play outside anymore. No ball games, nothing. Its all managed now it seems. The hours playing out of doors can be counted on one hand over the most important years 5 of a child's childhood. Is my belief.

May God Help us. Smart Phones, constant Video games, Kids walking down the middle of the street hunched over, thumbs in constant motion. My hands to face!

 

[hollydolly]

This is ridiculous. I'm finished playing... I started pitying you a little bit because ... well, never mind why... and tried to show kindness in the last few posts, but I'm tired of it now. You have a counter point for everything that's said and sparring with someone who won't listen and who'd argue if I'd say the sky is blue is tiring. So.... carry on with anyone who'll put up with such BS. Ain't gonna be me.

some people will argue with their reflection in an empty room...

 

[Paco Dennis]

The term “devil’s advocate” refers to a person who takes a position or argues a point that is contrary to the majority opinion or common belief, often for the sake of argument or to test the strength of the opposing arguments 123. The phrase originated in the Roman Catholic Church, where an official called the “advocatus diaboli” was appointed to argue against the canonization of a saint 1. The role of the devil’s advocate was to present evidence against the candidate’s canonization, in order to ensure that the decision was based on sound evidence and not just popular opinion 1. Today, the term is used more broadly to describe anyone who takes a contrarian position in a debate or discussion 1. I hope this helps!

He has said several times that there was no evidence of harm. Show him the evidence. All we have been able to provide is personal experience with children, and the repulsion we feel about our kids getting handcuffed. Since there is no evidence, except maybe child psychologists ( who will vary with their opinions/always followed by those weird tests ), it looks like there will be no agreement. Oh well, thus is opinion based conversations...you either love 'em or hate 'em.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Well, yesterday was quite a day.

There was some strange compartmentalization that was going only yesterday. In this thread, there is suggestion that childless couples - for whatever reason - really shouldn't have a say, or should have it demeaned, because you know, a full adult human couldn't possibly understand the brain of a two year old. And then, in an immigration thread, there was a suggestion that if you're not American, you shouldn't have an opinion on US policy regarding the issue. Sounds like a good way to shut out ideas, especially ones you may not like, to me. It's also a little odd when it comes to a seniors forum. All of us here have a lifetime that's been trundling on for some time. You never know, we might have learned things, even contrary things.

But it also talks to me of - can't attack the argument, so attack the messenger. If I don't like something someone has posted, I'll either pass it by, or reply. If I reply, I reply to the points made, not the personal themself. Let's be honest, none of us truly know anyone on here, but we can assume the vast majority are only here to share things.

In my initial post in this thread I posed the following questions:

When is it too young to teach about racism?
At two years of age, what is the best way to tackle such a topic?
What methods are most effective in teaching the young about this insidious problem?

The answer seems to be - Shhhhh don't mention it. Pretend it's not an issue until they're old enough to know when they've been discriminated against, or indeed, when you're discriminating.

Vaughn, it’s fine to have an opinion on anything you want to. I wasn’t attacking you but merely pointing out that someone without kids or someone that hasn’t had a lot of experience in their daily life interacting with kids might have a different opinion on this from lack of personal experience with toddlers. I may have an opinion on things for instance on people that are transgender but really I don’t have the same understanding of the issues because I am not transgender.

As far as your strong opinion on how the US should spend its money I find that odd. I don’t have a strong opinion on how any of the European countries should operate because I am not a citizen.

On one thread you implied that Americans should feel guilty that our tax dollars are killing Palestine children. I found that ridiculous because even though I vote big money has taken over our elections and the average citizen has no say over how our money is spent.

I certainly feel incredibly sad about the children but not one ounce guilty because it’s out of my control. I actually can barely watch the news anymore because of the daily carnage. It’s sickening.

You and I mainly have different views on many issues which is no big deal because neither of us has any control over any of these issues. If people started to demonstrate in huge numbers all over the country like they did for Vietnam it might get the government’s attention.

 

[CallMeKate]

He has said several times that there was no evidence of harm. Show him the evidence. All we have been able to provide is personal experience with children, and the repulsion we feel about our kids getting handcuffed. Since there is no evidence, except maybe child psychologists ( who will vary with their opinions/always followed by those weird tests ), it looks like there will be no agreement. Oh well, thus is opinion based conversations...you either love 'em or hate 'em.

I agree, PD... being asked to "show evidence" that teaching racism even to toddlers with this kind of role play is harmful is outlandish.

 

[papa tiger]

I guess the belief that children aren't safe anymore is a constant fact / fear and Playing at a playground is the worst thing they can do. Sadness that they no longer get the experiences of Play / sandlot games City Park play grounds with each other by the group. I look back on my childhood, sand lot games until I graduated high school. Fun, day was great. When I pass city park play grounds now their MT. Millions $$$ spent nothing!

 

[VaughanJB]

As far as your strong opinion on how the US should spend its money I find that odd. I don’t have a strong opinion on how any of the European countries should operate because I am not a citizen.

Well, to address this please understand - the US leads, and sets precedents, for other free nations. It comes with the territory of being the leader of the western world. It's all interconnected, and nothing happens in a vacuum. True, Americans - generally I'd say - don't care much about countries that aren't immediate to them (not that it should/would stop them having opinions about things that happen there). But that's not how it works in reverse. Second to that - racism is a universal issue, and everyone should care about it.

Europe is going through an extreme right wing wave right now, and a lot of candidates have been modeled on your last election. It's just the way it is. I'd say, the UK lags 8 to 10 years behind the US, but those trends keep on repeating. Not to mention, we get US culture pushed at us through media etc. I don't think European countries are as insular.

On one thread you implied that Americans should feel guilty that our tax dollars are killing Palestine children. I found that ridiculous because even though I vote big money has taken over our elections and the average citizen has no say over how our money is spent.

I get that, governments do a whole lot of things without asking the populace about it. On the other hand, again look at the big picture. How do you think people in other countries feel about it? Citizens take on the blame for wrong-doings. Look at Iranians, or Afghans. consider the general view of the people there. Intellectually, you and I would perhaps agree they might well be good people. Yet they're chastised all the time - guilt by association.

I feel the same about Russia. What they're doing is terrible, but ultimately the only people who can affect change will be the Russian people, not the Russian government, which totally isn't changing course any time soon. Governments persuade citizenry of the righteousness of what they're doing through their propaganda. It's just how it is. IMO.

You and I mainly have different views on many issues which is no big deal because neither of us has any control over any of these issues. If people started to demonstrate in huge numbers all over the country like they did for Vietnam it might get the government’s attention.

I've actively avoided (and boy am I ever glad I did) the vast majority of the discussion on the Israeli war on the forum, and I won't be changing that any time soon. I just hope people get a clear perspective. There is a strange dichotomy in my mind. The US, through its institutions, has reversed Roe v. Wade, as an example. I've seen/read much hand wringing over that, both pro the decision, and from those who want reproductive choice.

Clearly, at this stage, the pro-lifers are winning the argument. So then let me draw the parallel - it is fascinating to me (and perhaps not anyone else) to see/read/hear people fiercely campaign for pro-life, but to then not care that their tax money is being used to kill children. I hope that explains my line of thinking - which you may well wholly disagree with and that's fine. And all this done with the righteous support of God, from a supposedly staunch Christian base. It's fascinating, really. Mind you, threads don't tend to be so far reaching, so I get some of the lines of thought aren't clear.

As I recall from Vietnam. many sons and brothers were sent to the war, called up.. When all was said and done, a lot of them returned not to glory for fighting for their country, but to attacks and chastisement (not 100%, of course). Why did those people not blame the government, why pick on the soldiers, who were only following orders? I know, it's a complex issue. We can't change anything here, but we can discuss things. Seems like no-one wants to discuss the hard bits.

One final note, I have made it very clear how much I respect and love the US. My wife was born in Manhattan. I have extended family living in Florida. I do find though that if you try to discuss the country in any hint of a negative light, the defenses come up and people try to close the topic down rather than ignore it or discuss the issue. That's a shame, I think. Why not ignore the topic, and posts they don't like? If they're engaging by posting a direct response, how is it *me* that's trolling?

Maybe I think too much.

Thanks for your reply. Thinking back, my memory is that you and I have agreed plenty of times on the forum, perhaps I've got that wrong. Either way, there are no ill feelings here.

 

[VaughanJB]

I agree, PD... being asked to "show evidence" that teaching racism even to toddlers with this kind of role play is harmful is outlandish.

Then what do you base your outrage on?

 

[Beezer]

For crying out loud, folks! Whales are starving!

We need to handcuff more toddlers and feed them to the whales!!

 

[papa tiger]

Whad was I thinking? My brother told me the Average European made more than those here. After 2 1/2 tours of duty in Vietnam he served for Nato in Brussels and traveled all over Europe. Today average pay is $35 and hour. He said most there live better than here. So is that not expected, you buy the import, it cost more.

Maybe the problem we are facing today are a product of the past mistakes our Government have made internationally.
I need not name the involvements nor the $100's of Billions, now equal to 10's $$Trillions. What's done is done, maybe some
still going on and getting started.

One guy once said "Speak Softly but Carry a Big Stick." Maybe it could be snorted the most stupid quote of all time? Do we actually lead the world? Hell .......... no .... it does as it wishes. Brain washed 350,000,000 is the answer here.

The market is the driving force of the world. The 100's of billions in slush funds are the thefts of the taxpayers by Governments / Politicians / Billionaires and on and on. Humans are not going to save crap.

Maybe 200 years to Armageddons qualifier! We won't be here. When it first starts Millions of Souls, then Billions will disappear in the early times of it. No personal level of bias. Emotions are good. WTFC's

 

[Lewkat]

The Daily Mail is a British daily newspaper that is not widely available in the United States. However, you can purchase the Daily Mail online and have it delivered to your home in the US. You can also find the Daily Mail at some local newsstands, bookstores, and grocery stores. To find a local store that carries the Daily Mail, you can use the USPS website to search for a location near you 12. Alternatively, you can purchase the Daily Mail online from websites such as Britsuperstore 3. I hope this information helps!

Oh, get off your high horse and give it a rest. This entire conversation, if one can call it that, about the Daily Mail is utterly stupid and frankly quite boring at this point.

 

[hollydolly]

Oh, get off your high horse and give it a rest. This entire conversation, if one can call it that, about the Daily Mail is utterly stupid and frankly quite boring at this point.

 

[papa tiger]

Yes, mail me the Wall Street Journal revised versions....

 

[Paco Dennis]

Oh, get off your high horse and give it a rest. This entire conversation, if one can call it that, about the Daily Mail is utterly stupid and frankly quite boring at this point.

Just trying to understand this Daily Mail news conglomerate. The reviews by over 1000 readers give it a rating of 1.2 out of 5.

Example review, which most echo...

Absolute scam media​

Absolute scam media. They love to bombard you with fake click bait, and glorify everything they write about to make money. They do more harm than good, and should have been shut down years ago. Anyone who blindly trusts and reads anything from the Daily Fail needs to get their head checked.

Date of experience: December 19, 2023
Daily Mail is rated "Bad" with 1.2 / 5 on Trustpilot

 

[papa tiger]

Click bate is a constant fact on the internet, along with commercials / advertisements and scam social media + Virus warnings, agreements to follow everything you do, copy all of it and share with whoever they want to share it with + you agree with their fine print terms or you are stuck delete, delete, delete and move on with more constant deletes all day. .....

 

[Lewkat]

The Daily Mail is a British daily newspaper that is not widely available in the United States. However, you can purchase the Daily Mail online and have it delivered to your home in the US. You can also find the Daily Mail at some local newsstands, bookstores, and grocery stores. To find a local store that carries the Daily Mail, you can use the USPS website to search for a location near you 12. Alternatively, you can purchase the Daily Mail online from websites such as Britsuperstore 3. I hope this information helps!

Oh, get off your high horse and give it a rest. This entire conversation, if one can call it that, about the Daily Mail is utterly stupid and frankly quite boring at this point.

 

[Lewkat]

Sorry, Paco, my retort wasn't aimed at you at all. It was meant for VaughanJB. Regardless, if one decides to read it, it is best taken with a grain of salt.

At any rate, I am done with this thread.

 

[VaughanJB]

Sorry, Paco, my retort wasn't aimed at you at all. It was meant for VaughanJB. Regardless, if one decides to read it, it is best taken with a grain of salt.

At any rate, I am done with this thread.

Me? I mentioned the Daily Mail being rubbish, and then others dragged the topic up again and again - as you are here. I have been clear and specific, if people want to read it, that's on them. What more can I say? Honestly, I see your post, in this instance, as baiting. I didn't hurt Daily Mail's reputation, they did that themselves. My opinion isn't unique, but I don't understand why you care either way.

Reading many of these responses, I see two kinds of people. Firstly there are those that appear to have emotionally invested in their chosen news outlet. I guess it's like those people who only watch Fox News or something, and a media outlet becomes part of who they are. I don't understand this psychology, it is what it is.

Secondly, there are some Americans who, I'd guess, have never ever bought a copy of the Daily Mail, they may never of even seen one. Yet they want to staunchly support it because......... well, I don't know why. Certainly, a forum clique is partly to cause, and of course the various negative responses I've become very used to getting. If I write something, it must be wrong.

This is the internet in 2023. People are willing to die on the hill of a media outlet they like, or just out of principle because they don't like the person making a comment. If you don't want to discuss the Daily Mail, then skip those posts and/or ignore them. How difficult is that?

In a world where the term "fake news" is everywhere, and attacks on mainstream media are commonplace, it seems the Daily Mail gets a pass because.... well, we know.

Heck, I'm only posting this because you referenced me on the topic! If you want to stop discussing it, stop writing about it?

 

[Pepper]

I leave this place for ONE day............

 

[Debrah N.]

Well, yesterday was quite a day.

There was some strange compartmentalization that was going only yesterday. In this thread, there is suggestion that childless couples - for whatever reason - really shouldn't have a say, or should have their opinion demeaned, because you know, a full adult human couldn't possibly understand the brain of a two year old. And then, in an immigration thread, there was a suggestion that if you're not American, you shouldn't have an opinion on US policy regarding the issue. Sounds like a good way to shut out ideas, especially ones you may not like, to me. It's also a little odd when it comes to a seniors forum. All of us here have a lifetime that's been trundling on for some time. You never know, we might have learned things, even contrary things.

But it also talks to me of - can't attack the argument, so attack the messenger. If I don't like something someone has posted, I'll either pass it by, or reply. If I reply, I reply to the points made, not the person themself. Let's be honest, none of us truly know anyone on here, but we can assume the vast majority are only here to share things.

I never said you can't have an opinion but I do think that unless you're around little kids every day, it might be harder to understand how they comprehend stuff. Their understanding is not at all like an adult would understand a lot of things, especially at the age of two. My grandson is about 18 months now and he has no idea about 'tomorrow' or 'yesterday' or 'skin colour is only on the outside but inside we're the same'.... or even hating others and doing mean things to them because they're different.

So obviously any lesson on racism is completely useless. All a child that age would know is that they are 'stuck' and someone else is scaring/hurting them. What have you taught them in that situation. That the other child was mean? What's the point of that? Unless the goal is to teach them to be fearful of others.

 

[VaughanJB]

I never said you can't have an opinion but I do think that unless you're around little kids every day, it might be harder to understand how they comprehend stuff. Their understanding is not at all like an adult would understand a lot of things, especially at the age of two. My grandson is about 18 months now and he has no idea about 'tomorrow' or 'yesterday' or 'skin colour is only on the outside but inside we're the same'.... or even hating others and doing mean things to them because they're different.

So obviously any lesson on racism is completely useless. All a child that age would know is that they are 'stuck' and someone else is scaring/hurting them. What have you taught them in that situation. That the other child was mean? What's the point of that? Unless the goal is to teach them to be fearful of others.

Hey, Debrah.

I wouldn't want to be around kids all day these days. Good grief, I have just enough energy to make tea and nap.

Still, we'll agree to disagree on this particular point. I don't believe you have to be a parent to know something about child psychology. In fact, I think an argument could be made that as someone who is around young children, you may not be able to get beyond your own experience, and as we know, everyone isn't the same.

I think education and the subjects taught, have to be contextualized. If a child lives in a panacea where there is no racism, or even perhaps when the effects of racism are very minor, then you don't need to introduce the topic too early. However, if you live in a place of high instances of racism, perhaps it's very important.

Aside from that, you have a general education. Now, this Day Care isn't there to do that. They're not really a School, and though I think I've used the term, this was not really a teacher. She is a carer. We don't get to hear from her, her reasoning, why she thought this was a good idea, so it's difficult to say. It's also, imo, ridiculous to criticize and attack her without all the information. Does anyone think she intended harm?

We simply live in a world, ably illustrated by this thread, where condemnation and indignation are default settings.

 

[Pepper]

I don't believe you have to be a parent to know something about child psychology. In fact, I think an argument could be made that as someone who is around young children, you may not be able to get beyond your own experience, and as we know, everyone isn't the same.

You would be wrong. It's what people with no real experience say. Not having been there, you can't know, so don't pretend you do, hiding behind what you read.

Can't say more right now, just woke up with very low blood pressure, so my hands are shaking.

 

[VaughanJB]

You would be wrong. It's what people with no real experience say. Not having been there, you can't know, so don't pretend you do, hiding behind what you read.

Can't say more right now, just woke up with very low blood pressure, so my hands are shaking.

Well, it would be what people with no real experience say, because it's a statement of their reality.

We'll agree to disagree - plenty of psychologists have studied and written papers on best practice without being in the specific situation. Do you have to be a schizophrenic to write about schizophrenics? Do you have to be old to write about the physical effects of aging? Do you have to have rotten teeth to write about dental hygiene? This is simply not how progress is made.

What you know as a parent is YOUR experience, in YOUR context, in YOUR instance and circumstances.

I can get in and drive a car, but I couldn't build one.

 

[Pepper]

When one has ONE child they become surrounded by children and other mothers. From their earliest moments you are taking that child out, socializing. Soon, you become surrounded by dozens of kids and parents. When school begins, your knowledge of other children grow, thirty fold.

It's not one child you have, it grows to knowing children. YOU don't have that experience. People who write papers and are childless at least, hopefully, watch and study children. They don't write in a vacuum.

Surprisingly, most children are the same. It shouldn't be a surprise. Most people are the same, it's our egos telling us our individual selves are special. We're not.

Gee, even my head is shaking, I'm a mess!