Grand Theft Auto, Carjacking, Joyriding epidemic

David777

Well-known Member
Location
Silicon Valley
Problem here is the USA is much worse than in Canada per below news, and politicians are to blame, not because they are the ones stealing but rather they are ignoring solutions to the problem. The below in today's media news is an example. In the article, they complain about a lack of enough penalties, a common diversionary tactics by advocates. The real issue in my state is a lack of application of laws due to entrenched poor, youth, and ethnic advocates in the system that monkeywrench application of laws. Another outrageous example of what our society has become racing towards a dystopian future of anarchy.

In California Grand Theft Auto under Penal Code 487(d)(1) PC are the same as the penalties for grand theft. Grand theft auto is a “wobbler” offense in California, which means that it may be charges as either a felony or a misdemeanor depending on the circumstances of the crime and the criminal history of the defendant. The unlawful taking or unlawful driving of a vehicle, also known as “joyriding,” falls under Vehicle Code Section 10851 and is a lesser offense than grand theft auto.

Although it is also, technically, a wobbler offense, it is typically charged as a misdemeanor for first-time offenders. Carjacking – Carjacking is the use of physical force or fear and intimidation in order to get someone to give you their vehicle. Carjacking is a felony charge with a penalty of 3, 5, or 9 years in a California state prison. Because carjacking is a violent offense, it is also included under California’s Three Strikes Law.


Because such is rampant among ethnic and poor youth, prosecution is limited and that is where the problem lies. Of course, youth theft gangs also sell some of these cars to be shipped overseas and those doing so prefer to receive vehicles from youth gangs because they are "protected" from actual incarceration with not even their names ever made public nor do news organization ever report what such youths receive as punishment.

Of course, many are just released to parents because jails space is limited and the public won't know. Many cars are also used by thieves traveling to commit crimes since they won't be traced to perpetrators. That is why some cars are abandoned on streets still working where they are "stored" for use in future crimes. Other vehicles are sent to chop shops for parts.

Her car was stolen 3 times in the past year. She says consumers shouldn't bear the brunt of the problem

Her car was stolen 3 times in the past year. She says consumers shouldn't bear the brunt of the problem

A Toronto woman whose car was stolen three times in the past year — and who had a rental car stolen too — says nobody is taking the problem seriously enough. Kristin Shensel, a real estate broker, said her car, a 2019 Range Rover, was stolen three times since January 2023 from the street in front of her house. A rental car she used last year, a Jaguar, was also stolen...

The federal government says an estimated 90,000 cars are stolen annually in Canada, resulting in about $1 billion in costs to Canadian insurance policy-holders and taxpayers. "It's highly profitable and there's very low risk," he said. "We need to see stiffer penalties. We absolutely need to have a deterrence for these crimes." Carrique told summit participants how lucrative the grand theft auto industry can be. Spotters, who identify vehicles to steal, can make between $75 and $100, he said, while exporters can make up to $80,000 by exporting a stolen vehicle overseas, where its resale value can double.
 

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Theft, including car theft, is often linked to complex issues like poverty, inequality, and access to resources. Addressing these underlying causes can be more effective than simply increasing penalties. It's crucial to critically analyze the justice system for potential biases that may disproportionately impact certain groups. This analysis can help identify and address discriminatory practices. Instead of focusing on harsher penalties, consider exploring solutions that focus on prevention, rehabilitation, and addressing the root causes of crime. This could involve community-based programs, job training opportunities, and mental health support.
 
Typical weak response of do nothing advocates. Of course as I noted, the problem is not the level of penalties but rather a lack of application of punishment for laws. How about giving lawbreakers some discomfort and pain as well as identifying them in public. A reason society needs a return to corporal punishment because once lawbreaking exceeds minor levels, simply tossing offenders long term into costly to citizens, jail or prisons, is not a solution.
 

One simple way to NOT have your car stolen is.........Sell the 2023 luxury SUV and buy a $10,000 ten year old plain jane car. No one is going to want to steal a 2012 Subaru Forester with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and the annual cost of insurance will be a lot LOWER. Vanity is the real reason why these car owners are being hit by thieves.

Just got to have the newest, most blingey , flashy car on the block. I strongly suspect that these criminals are not stealing cars from the parking lots of public housing locations are they?

You live in a place with 3 million dollar houses, be prepared to be a target for criminals. Of course the car makers ALSO must share the blame, for not building in better security devices in their cars. In days gone by, removing the ignition coil wire was an effective way to prevent a car from being started up. Jimb.
 
well my housekeeper lady just had her 10yr old high milage
car stolen from the apt bldg parking lot wherer she lives....
been 3 weeks and no sign of it...!!!!
 
Yeah, I didn't think anyone would steal a totally "unloaded" 7-year-old Toyota Corolla, but I was sure wrong!

The 15-year-old that stole it got barely a smack on the hand. I attended his sentencing (ha!) and he was told to "attend his school classes regularly". That was it. The only reason he got caught for stealing my car was that he got caught in the act of stealing another one a few months later and his fingerprints matched the ones he left in my car.

He's in prison now.
 
One simple way to NOT have your car stolen is.........Sell the 2023 luxury SUV and buy a $10,000 ten year old plain jane car. No one is going to want to steal a 2012 Subaru Forester with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and the annual cost of insurance will be a lot LOWER. Vanity is the real reason why these car owners are being hit by thieves.

Just got to have the newest, most blingey , flashy car on the block. I strongly suspect that these criminals are not stealing cars from the parking lots of public housing locations are they?
Jim, I think the general reasoning here is sound. On the other hand, my daughter in Vancouver has always bought reconditioned, very compact, non-luxury cars, at least 10 years old. She has a good mechanic and keeps them in excellent mechanical & outward condition. Yet she's experienced a couple of thefts in the city.

When the police have recovered them, they've kept them for a couple days for inspection, attempting to determine If they were utilized in the course of a crime.
 
How about giving lawbreakers some discomfort and pain as well as identifying them in public. A reason society needs a return to corporal punishment because once lawbreaking exceeds minor levels, simply tossing offenders long term into costly to citizens, jail or prisons, is not a solution.
Repulsive.
 
Car theft, car jacking and joy riding with stolen cars started by the late 80s early 90s and every now and then flare up. What's happening now it's on a much larger scale in part spread by social media such as the tricks used to steal the Kias and Hyundais without a key. Doesn't justify it because they saw it online which they know because they just gives the tool of a crime. The desire to commit the crime or the indifference shown committing the act was already there in the criminal.

Also minors are very aware of their rights and what they can get away with it. But the aggressiveness and violence today is more disturbing than decades ago. They know what they're doing is a crime but it's still a game with them to get away with it. The violence and murder that's another set of issues that having nothing to do with little ol me/blissful ignorance. Also today's criminals want what everybody wants but tend to legally buy. They won't accept they can't have it or have to wait until they can afford to buy it. It's almost like a sense of entitlement.

There is depravity, greed and selfishness among all demographics. But they are some of the major traits of CRIMINALS who commit CRIME as well.
 
One simple way to NOT have your car stolen is.........Sell the 2023 luxury SUV and buy a $10,000 ten year old plain jane car. No one is going to want to steal a 2012 Subaru Forester with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and the annual cost of insurance will be a lot LOWER. Vanity is the real reason why these car owners are being hit by thieves.
Yeah, that suits me. My newest car is 15 years old. But if everyone does that, no more new cars are sold and then as the old cars die (or rust away), then prices for even the old cars make car ownership nearly impossible for all but the wealthy.
 
It was a 2019, not a 2023 and she's a RE broker that does business hauling clients or meeting them at properties so I would say having a nice car or "luxury SUV" is just a part of her job, a necessity in fact, not vanity. Do you want to ride around looking at million dollar houses in a 12 yo, high mileage Forester that was used to sleep in on ski weekends?
 
Typical weak response of do nothing advocates. Of course as I noted, the problem is not the level of penalties but rather a lack of application of punishment for laws. How about giving lawbreakers some discomfort and pain as well as identifying them in public. A reason society needs a return to corporal punishment because once lawbreaking exceeds minor levels, simply tossing offenders long term into costly to citizens, jail or prisons, is not a solution.

You’re suggesting a more hands-on approach to crime and punishment, one that focuses on immediate consequences and public identification of offenders. While it’s an approach that has worked in some societies, it has also been found to be subject to bias and abuse. For example, in countries where corporal punishment is still practiced, it’s often been applied disproportionately to vulnerable populations such as women, the poor, and ethnic minorities. And in terms of public identification of offenders, that can lead to permanent stigmatization and make it difficult for people to reintegrate into society after they’ve served their punishment.

But I do understand the frustration of feeling that existing punishments aren’t deterring crime. Perhaps a middle ground would be to focus on rehabilitation programs that address the underlying causes of criminal behavior, while still imposing meaningful consequences for those who break the law. This could be a way to ensure justice is served, while also reducing recidivism and the cost of incarceration on society.
 
Yeah, that suits me. My newest car is 15 years old. But if everyone does that, no more new cars are sold and then as the old cars die (or rust away), then prices for even the old cars make car ownership nearly impossible for all but the wealthy.
Really ? Guess how many new passenger vehicles are made every year in your country ? 15.5 MILLION new cars were sold in the USA in 2023. I don't think your suggestion will actually happen. Some people will continue to buy luxury vehicles, while others won't buy them, opting for a older used vehicle, that isn't a target for thieves. In about 55 years of owning a wide range of vehicles I have never, ever, bought a new vehicle of any kind. JimB.
 
Note, for years on my old 2007 Forester, I've used an anti-theft brake pedal jack that are too difficult to remove versus steering wheel locks. Especially for a vehicle criminals would only use as transportation to commit crimes when so many other vehicles are easily stolen.

It is true, some of those powerful in Western capitalist societies are very guilty for breeding criminals and anarchy. IMO corporations, university Ivy tower elites, some politicians, and various wealthy ought be targeted by paying for rehabilitation through taxes what they have caused that otherwise working law abiding middle class citizens pay for and are prey of. That noted, there are not a few criminals and maniacs with behavioral and psychological issues that are beyond usual help. They after limited chances to change with public oversight, ought be removed to controlled isolated islands society spends little supporting, where they can rule over themselves for sentenced periods, with periodic opportunities to be re-integrated.

Throughout human history shows corporal punishment has been much abused. So yes it was correct to abolish such decades ago. The difference today in this telecom era, within modern Western countries, it ought be possible to fairly treat with public transparent oversight, found guilty persons, while still making a short period of incarceration unpleasant without causing serious physical pain. For instance, cells lacking air conditioning, heating, TV, phones, boring food, foul changing fragrances, shaving hair, audio speakers with constant reminding during day hours, anti criminal, socially acceptable behaviors. Conditions humans won't want to endure for even short periods. Otherwise expensive long incarceration sentences or parole is too often ineffective.

As for public stigmatization, people ought reap what they sew, and learn from as well as being a deterrent to others. Then government ought actively be involved in providing them with useful low paying public service jobs they can prove themselves given time again over.
 
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The statement that those powerful in Western capitalist societies are "very guilty for breeding criminals and anarchy" is a sweeping generalization that is not supported by evidence. While there are certainly some powerful individuals who may contribute to crime and inequality, it is important to remember that there are also many powerful individuals who work to make the world a better place. It is also important to note that crime and inequality are complex issues with a variety of causes, and that not all powerful individuals are equally responsible for these problems.

The statement that corporations, university Ivy tower elites, some politicians, and various wealthy ought to be targeted by "paying for rehabilitation through taxes what they have caused" is also problematic. First, it is important to note that there is no evidence to support the claim that these groups are "very guilty for breeding criminals and anarchy." Second, it is important to remember that taxation is a complex issue with a variety of competing interests, and that any proposals for tax reform should be considered carefully in light of their potential impact on all stakeholders.

The statement that there are "not a few criminals and maniacs with behavioral and psychological issues that are beyond usual help" is also a generalization that is not supported by evidence. While there are certainly some individuals who may require specialized care and treatment, it is important to remember that the vast majority of people who commit crimes are capable of rehabilitation. It is also important to note that there are a variety of effective treatment programs available, and that these programs can be successful in reducing recidivism and improving public safety.

The statement that "corporal punishment has been much abused" is true. There is a long history of corporal punishment being used in a cruel and inhumane manner. As a result, most countries have outlawed corporal punishment, and there is a growing consensus that it is a harmful and ineffective form of punishment.

The statement that "it ought be possible to fairly treat with public transparent oversight, found guilty persons, while still making a short period of incarceration unpleasant without causing serious physical pain" is a matter of opinion. There are a variety of different models for incarceration, and it is up to each society to decide which models are most appropriate. Some people believe that incarceration should be primarily focused on rehabilitation, while others believe that it should also be used as a form of punishment. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

The statement that "people ought reap what they sew, and learn from as well as being a deterrent to others" is also a matter of opinion. There are a variety of different views on the role of punishment, and it is up to each society to decide what they believe is the most appropriate way to respond to crime. Some people believe that punishment should be primarily focused on deterrence, while others believe that it should also be focused on rehabilitation or reparation. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.

The statement that "government ought actively be involved in providing them with useful low paying public service jobs they can prove themselves given time again over" is also a matter of opinion. There are a variety of different views on the role of government in providing employment opportunities, and it is up to each society to decide what they believe is the most appropriate approach. Some people believe that government should play a large role in providing employment opportunities, while others believe that the private sector should take the lead. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question.
 
"IMO corporations, university Ivy tower elites, some politicians, and various wealthy ought be targeted by paying for rehabilitation through taxes what they have caused that otherwise working law abiding middle class citizens pay for and are prey of."

I agree with that.
 
Obviously, I didn't mean the statement as a "sweeping generalization". That shows you so dislike my usual views because many others will begin to think about with some agreeing, so that you will resort to nit picking my obviously informal terse statements as though it is some game without benefit of doubt. Like to make such informal statements on this board, one otherwise has to write lengthy carefully crafted features, lest someone dissect whatever like well thought out policy or pieces of legislation. You might have posed your opposition differently, but instead have again exposed your likely elite educational background where indeed some do debate issues on that level.
 
Throughout human history shows corporal punishment has been much abused. So yes it was correct to abolish such decades ago. The difference today in this telecom era, within modern Western countries, it ought be possible to fairly treat with public transparent oversight, found guilty persons, while still making a short period of incarceration unpleasant without causing serious physical pain. For instance, cells lacking air conditioning, heating, TV, phones, boring food, foul changing fragrances, shaving hair, audio speakers with constant reminding during day hours, anti criminal, socially acceptable behaviors. Conditions humans won't want to endure for even short periods. Otherwise expensive long incarceration sentences or parole is too often ineffective.
Unconstitutional.
 
One simple way to NOT have your car stolen is.........Sell the 2023 luxury SUV and buy a $10,000 ten year old plain jane car. No one is going to want to steal a 2012 Subaru Forester with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and the annual cost of insurance will be a lot LOWER. Vanity is the real reason why these car owners are being hit by thieves. ......
I agree except in many parts of the US in particular there are new and used car shortages which inflate the prices. They say supply chain issues have big some of the biggest drivers of high prices.

Not good for carjackings but good old fashioned mechanical steering wheel locks on parked cars help deter thieves in a hurry or amateurs.

Also manual transmission/stick shift will deter some because many thieves(probably teens who haven't learned to drive one yet) don't like them.
 
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"IMO corporations, university Ivy tower elites, some politicians, and various wealthy ought be targeted by paying for rehabilitation through taxes what they have caused that otherwise working law abiding middle class citizens pay for and are prey of."

I agree with that.

We might all agree, but the matrix of legalese that descends on most any "complaint" is a jungle where rarely justice is served to everyone's wishes. It is a jungle out there, and in the courtrooms.
 
A Toronto woman whose car was stolen three times in the past year — and who had a rental car stolen too — says nobody is taking the problem seriously enough. Kristin Shensel, a real estate broker, said her car, a 2019 Range Rover, was stolen three times since January 2023 from the street in front of her house. A rental car she used last year, a Jaguar, was also stolen...
I want to mention that, in recent months, this issue has come very much forward on Canadian national radio & TV. Of course, the attention has been put on the alarming theft rate of new (or very recent-models of) luxury cars, but even pickup trucks as well. Apparently most are going into shipping containers that are then sent, primarily, to the Middle East & Africa.

The issue is certainly getting much public attention, so we'll see what politicians & law-enforcement will do about it.

Older vehicles in decent shape do get stolen, and usually they aren't trasnsported to someplace outside of Canada. But when they're stolen it is equally distressing to the car owner.
 

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