AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
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- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
You are a joke. Now, I see you have added a "far" to your "normal" "far" so now it's far far left. Pathetic.
Is This the Face of Hate?
- Thread starter RadishRose
- Start date
And that is true of all US citizens too Warrigal. My comment earlier was about voting and carrying citizenship in two countries. For one, I did not know the US allowed that situation, it must have happened in one of our more recent years as it was not always true at all. Seems to me that if you are allowed to vote then you must also expect to pay some taxes for any one you voted for decisions. Probably a small amount if you live all year in a different country. But some recognition that votes do give you some responsibility as well.
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
Bob, voting is a right and a duty over here. Paying taxes is also a duty but it is a means tested one.
It is right and proper that taxes should be paid in the country where income is generated, which is why we are angry at corporations that structure their businesses principally to avoid this obligation. Many of these organisations are what we would consider to be American companies although they have since gone global, and heaven help us the day these entities get the vote.
It is right and proper that taxes should be paid in the country where income is generated, which is why we are angry at corporations that structure their businesses principally to avoid this obligation. Many of these organisations are what we would consider to be American companies although they have since gone global, and heaven help us the day these entities get the vote.
Now Jim, you are sure not speaking of me. As long as we have a far far left government running I have been using far far left in my postings. You are just not observant or remembering well.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
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- Midwest
Well , they are already considered "people"... so can the vote be far behind? But they don't really need to vote.. they buy elections and elicit favors from their puppets.
Right again Warrigal. But the concerns were brought up when faced with dual citizenship as some seem to do these days. Should they pay the taxes to the countries they vote in? Some vote in both countries so why should they be taxed only in one country? Their votes can put more expenses into either or both countries, so why not a taxes to help pay for what they voted for?
I believe that the taxes in UK started at and above $96,000 earned in UK to be taxed at some rate in the US.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
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- Midwest
If they are not earning money in a country what would they be taxed on? What you are suggesting amounts to a Poll tax..or paying for the right to vote, and last time I checked, that was illegal and unconstitutional.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
You are still connecting the right to vote with the obligation to pay taxes.
These are independent but sometimes overlapping rights and duties.
For example if I were to live in America for a year I would be liable for income tax and other local taxes but not entitled to vote in any US elections. I could however vote in Australian elections even though I had not earned anything here to attract taxation. If on the other hand I had investments in Australia, I would have to submit a tax return.
My point is that voting and paying taxes are independent of each other and that is how it should be. Something as important as the right to vote should not be dependent on how much money you make.
These are independent but sometimes overlapping rights and duties.
For example if I were to live in America for a year I would be liable for income tax and other local taxes but not entitled to vote in any US elections. I could however vote in Australian elections even though I had not earned anything here to attract taxation. If on the other hand I had investments in Australia, I would have to submit a tax return.
My point is that voting and paying taxes are independent of each other and that is how it should be. Something as important as the right to vote should not be dependent on how much money you make.
If you read back over the posts that have been posted earlier today, Ameriscot in post 113, talked about her taxes and such. I am not making this stuff up.
QS, I am required to file US income tax whether I've earned anything in the US or not. Not sure of the rate now but when I moved to the UK in 2000 I would have had to pay tax to the US on any UK income of the equivalent of $85k. Double taxed. No idea what the rate of taxation is. I never earned that amount on my own and of course my UK husbands income didn't count.
The US is the ONLY country which requires this of their expat citizens. This unfair taxation is the reason why so many dual citizen expats are giving up their US citizenship.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
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- Midwest
So.. you file... and if you had made over a certain amount in the UK you would have had to pay tax in in the US? So What is the debate about then? You comply with the law and you also vote because you are a US citizen.. Not sure what bobF is taking exception to. Is it the fact that you get to vote at all?
I am not sure what BobF is taking exception too either. I only reported what was said in the forum. Nothing excepted, nothing created. Lets move on to new ideas.
Thank you Ameriscot for your comment. Hopefully it will help clear this question up.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
How did taxes or citizenship fit into this thread? ��
BobF thinks the limit is too high. I guess he wants those who make maybe £30K to pay taxes on that income twice. He thinks taxes buy you the right the vote, so I guess those who don't pay tax shouldn't vote then, right? Like those on welfare, disability, poor seniors.
American expats giving up citizenship:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...op-quarterly-record-for-giving-up-citizenship
You have a way of saying what I did not say at all. What a load of bull crap going on in this thread.
Nowere did I say anything about the E30k at all but to quote something you had posted. I guess I did comment that if the US wants to know how much you make where ever you are, then if they want to tax, you will pay taxes to the US. I did not set up the system, and frankly I don't think holding memberships in more than one country at a time should not have some cost to it as well. I assume you are getting benefits from both nations or no reason to have both active memberships. If so, then you should meet the IRS rules and at least post your status and incomes just like I do.
So why don't your end your twisting and lying about my posts? If you can not post what you claim I have said you have nothing to say but made up nonsense.
I believe that Ameriscot brought that into the conversation. Till she brought that up I had not even mentioned taxes or citizenship at all.
truespock
Member
- Location
- The Fortress of Solitude
Actually, rose, statistics would puzzlingly seem to suggest that incidences of this nature are occurring slightly LESS frequently today than in decades past, but the current level of news coverage is certainly unprecedented. I'm not really too sure I believe the stats anyway. The typical 20 year old today is an incredible hot steaming mess as compared to when I was that age. I blame the disintegration of the traditional family unit, video games, the failure of modern education and the aforementioned news coverage.
The FIRST thing we DESPERATELY need to do is to SEVERELY restrict the availability of guns to the general public. (Oh, stop your whining, right wingers. The 2nd Amendment was meant EXPRESSLY for the government sanctioned militia of three hundred years ago, not some redneck survivalist crackpot hiding out in a single-wide trailer in the Ozarks!) Europeans don't have the levels of gun violence that we do because they don't let anybody but police and the army have them.
Next, get off the dime about mental health. Monitor EVERYONE and lock them up if they start acting anti-social. EVERY, SINGLE ONE of these mass murderers gave off plain signs of their ultimate intentions for months, or even years, before they finally popped. We're so concerned with the illusion of 'personal freedom' that we're willing to pretend it isn't happening until the next unsupervised nut job rubs our faces in it again!
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truespock
Member
- Location
- The Fortress of Solitude
Yup, teejay, 'that rap crap' definitely goes in there, too! Plus, I added to my post significantly while you were making yours.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Not so sure about the monitoring everyone part, but I DO agree with doing something about people who area clearly giving off signs of doing something like this. Seems like we could come up with some way to intervene without destroying personal freedom -- like requiring psychiatrists and the like to report people who show signs of going off the deep end, and taking seriously reports from citizens that someone is acting wacko. And then doing something about it -- not just saying "yup, he's a wacko" and turning him loose.
truespock
Member
- Location
- The Fortress of Solitude
School is the perfect place to keep an eye on everybody. Train the teachers to notice the malcontents. Relentlessly impress upon the kids to report anything threatening immediately. Any kids caught in this net get a prompt psych evaluation. The dangerous seeming ones get locked up for l o n g-term therapy. Parents are the second line of defense. Any kid with a gun fetish, or a case of the hates, or who demonstrates serious antisocial tendencies and the parents have 'no idea' needs to be remanded into state custody.
Antisocial behavior is a cancer in the body of society. You either actively work to cut the cancer out, or it eventually kills the body.
Sorry RR. This started when BobF said other countries were 'less free' than the US which I took exception to. I won't make any more comments in this thread.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Unfortunately there have been massive cuts to mental health programs and many State facilities that housed them have been closed. Seems this was one of the first areas to be cut to save money and to be able to give tax cuts to corporations. Now we can reap the results of this stupidity.
School is the perfect place to keep an eye on everybody. Train the teachers to notice the malcontents. Relentlessly impress upon the kids to report anything threatening immediately. Any kids caught in this net get a prompt psych evaluation. The dangerous seeming ones get locked up for l o n g-term therapy. Parents are the second line of defense. Any kid with a gun fetish, or a case of the hates, or who demonstrates serious antisocial tendencies and the parents have 'no idea' needs to be remanded into state custody.
I never knew about that 30,000 number till Ameriscot posted it. Prior to her intervention in my thoughts it was just a neutral situation. No one nation over another in my comments. She can claim all she wants but I never intended to start all this crap that continues. It would be best if we just did not have other countries involved and leave the opinions be neutral as I intended it to be. Just the problem and none of this blaming persons to be wrong. I never wanted it to become one nation over another nation. That was all injected by one person and not by me. Even in my challenge to Warrigal I never spoke of one country over another country at all. I never brought the UK into the conversation.
- Ameriscot
Senior Member
Join Date
Oct 2014
Location
Scotland via USA
Posts
6,232
Originally Posted by BobF
Warrigal, did you read the charts I put up earlier. We have more weapons than ever registered, but the gun incidents are also falling. Don't you at least recognize that and appreciate what is happening in the US.
I see no justification in judging the US against lots of other countries. The US still has a Constitution that guaranties citizen freedoms from birth to death. Many countries in this world are more likely driven by older forms of government where attention is given to the divine leaderships and royalties. Not quite as free as the US. Our ways will change but not just because someone says so. It must all be taken through our Congress, and maybe even further if it requires Constitutional change. As long as our government keeps it's rights, there will be no fast changes on anything at all.
If you have not seen my charts, back up a couple or so inputs and take a look at them. I think it is pretty good for the recent years of the US in our battle against criminal gun actions. One weak place is our inability to challenge mental suspicions as that knowledge has been assigned to private and personal privileged information. It must be somehow released to gun registration efforts.
So more guns than ever registered but lower incidents recorded. Sounds like the right direction to me.
I try to avoid gun arguments as it's like bashing my head against a brick wall. But this statement which I read repeatedly really pisses me off. Many Americans have this arrogant attitude that the US is the only free country in the world. And, no, that does not make me an anti-American American.
Tell me exactly how you are more free than I am living in the UK. So there's a Queen? She really has no power. Big deal. We have freedom of speech. We don't have more guns than population or people walking around with them while they are shopping with their kids. Fine with me.
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truespock
Member
- Location
- The Fortress of Solitude
EXACTLY! Reestablishing compassionate and effective mental hospitals is one of the FIRST things we should address ... RIGHT AFTER we confiscate Joe Anti-Federalist's guns!! I swear, if I have to hear any more BS willfully misinterpreted renderings of the 2nd Amendment, I might just have to SHOOT somebody!
QuickSilver
SF VIP
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- Midwest
Way back in nursing school I did my psych rotation at a very large state mental hospital. I spent 16 weeks observing and talking to severe schizophrenics. It was fascinating, but frightening. Yes.. these people were "crazy" in every sense of the word.. and sometimes dangerous.. BUT mostly they were vulnerable. The conditions in that hospital were not great, but they were kept safe from predators... and society was kept safe from them. Many had been hospitalized for so long that they no longer had families.. or visitors.. That facility was closed due to budget cuts.. where did those people go? To the streets I guess.. along with every other sociopath or psychopath. who can be pretty cunning... and able to buy guns.