There Will Always Be Poor People

Anyone who thinks benefits are "handed out like candy" should try to actually get them. Two years ago when my niece (39 year old single mom with two minor children) was diagnosed with terminal cancer, she had to quit her jobs and lost not only her income, but her healthcare coverage as well. No way could she afford COBRA (expensive as hell). Because of the job I used to have, I had some experience and familiarity with getting benefits for people so I took on the job of getting what benefits she was entitled to, in order to keep her and her children from being put out on the street to starve.

Anybody who thinks this is easy is fooling themselves. As to the healthcare benefits (Medicaid) there was a social worker at the hospital who was wonderful in helping us. There was a heap of paperwork, which of course gets summarily returned to you if anything is blank or isn't filled out to their liking. Usually there isn't an explanation, so you get to just try to figure out what the problem is and resubmit. First we had to get Medicaid for her, and then for the children. We jumped through many, many hoops. AND, we had to apply for Social Security disability for mom, so she could have a little money. THAT required another heap of paperwork, and copies of a zillion medical records. After answering about a million really dumb questions, like why she couldn't work with terminal colon cancer, we were successful, and she got the princely sum of about $700 per month. Try keeping an apartment and clothing for children, plus school supplies, etc., with that! And of course she lost her car. We also applied for food stamps and more papers, documentation, and so forth and we finally got food assistance for them. All of this took somewhere around 8 months, and in the meantime family was helping all we could. She finally had to move in with her oldest son, because there was still no way she could manage on what she was getting, especially as she got weaker. She died early this year, basically in abject poverty.

The safety net that is out there is first off, inadequate for anyone who has had a setback that prevents them from working, or from holding down a full time job. Secondly, it takes forever to actually GET into that safety net. (SS Disability was actually speeded up (if you can call it that!!) when SS became convinced she was, in fact, terminally ill.) Section 8 housing has a waiting list so long that our local office is no longer taking applications. And the other benefits are not instant, nor are they easy to get (especially for someone who is ill and can't get around, or who has no transportation, because they require you to go to various locations to apply, etc.), nor are they sufficient to live on. Had my niece not had family standing by and helping however we could, she could, indeed have ended up dying on the street, and her children could have starved.

Everybody who is poor is not so because they "won't try to take responsibility."

Good post, Butterfly.

People who are poor are not all “sitting on their bums” waiting for government handouts (like BobF insinuates).

Sure, there are some slackers, but most people don’t WANT to be poor. Most people – BY FAR – who are receiving some assistance would rather be able to work and make it on their own.

I know of a couple (in their 40s) who both lost their jobs in 2011. Neither has been able to find permanent jobs despite constant applying and pounding the pavement. They lost their house and now live in an apartment. So she cleans houses and he works in a call center (thru a temp service) and delivers pizzas a couple nights a week. No benefits, no extras. They have kids, an older car, and are barely making it.

When people are facing eviction and their cupboards are bare, they don’t want to hear about trade unions :rolleyes: or theories about which direction the wind might blow with regard to the elections and economy. :rolleyes: Those are not solutions.
 

Just as the statement "we'll always have poor" is true so is it that we will always have those who shrug it off as business as usual instead of at least "feeling" it, caring.

Well Jim what do you feel is the proper way to express a feeling and caring for the poor instead of shrugging it off and if most people would agree that in every society it's inevitable that there will be a poor element why not shrug it off if you can't do anything about it? I show my own concern and caring for things that I can directly control or influence and loose no sleep over things I have no control over. If you are hungry I will feed you. If you are freezing I will give you a blanket. Too many people are Bleeding Hearts without solutions.
 
Feeling and caring and talking/debating/pontificating don't amount to much of anything unless accompanied by action.

Many people have connections – i.e., they know someone who knows someone who is in a position to help. If not with money, then maybe with a job referral/offer or a cheap, clean, safe place to stay for awhile, or a bus pass, or even volunteering at a food pantry every now and then.
 

Good post, Butterfly.

People who are poor are not all “sitting on their bums” waiting for government handouts (like BobF insinuates).

Sure, there are some slackers, but most people don’t WANT to be poor. Most people – BY FAR – who are receiving some assistance would rather be able to work and make it on their own.

I know of a couple (in their 40s) who both lost their jobs in 2011. Neither has been able to find permanent jobs despite constant applying and pounding the pavement. They lost their house and now live in an apartment. So she cleans houses and he works in a call center (thru a temp service) and delivers pizzas a couple nights a week. No benefits, no extras. They have kids, an older car, and are barely making it.

When people are facing eviction and their cupboards are bare, they don’t want to hear about trade unions :rolleyes: or theories about which direction the wind might blow with regard to the elections and economy. :rolleyes: Those are not solutions.

Absolutely true what I said about some sitting on their bums while collecting funds. Glad you proved I was right when you posted "Sure, there are some slackers, but most people don’t WANT to be poor." And that is what I said, not insinuated as you say.

And also, for emergency room entrance to a hospital, you get treated first and then they ask for payments. It is part of their ritual. Not just words I have posted. At least it was the proper way to handle emergency room people prior to Obama care and I have not heard any different since Obama care either.

Emergency room entrance is a good place for all the poor to go to for check out and medicines. Payment is if possible.
 
Absolutely true what I said about some sitting on their bums while collecting funds. Glad you proved I was right when you posted "Sure, there are some slackers, but most people don’t WANT to be poor." And that is what I said, not insinuated as you say.

I did not prove you to be right. So now you want to take credit for what I write? Nice try. ;)Look at the bolded part (which you qupted from MY post #76). That is not what you've said; that is what *I* am saying. It's really not all that complicated, BobF.
 
We as a society need to do a better job with our resources as it relates to hunger and need. A few billion less spent on War toys would go a long way toward some solutions.
 
Well Jim what do you feel is the proper way to express a feeling and caring for the poor instead of shrugging it off and if most people would agree that in every society it's inevitable that there will be a poor element why not shrug it off if you can't do anything about it? I show my own concern and caring for things that I can directly control or influence and loose no sleep over things I have no control over. If you are hungry I will feed you. If you are freezing I will give you a blanket. Too many people are Bleeding Hearts without solutions.

With any luck I will need neither your food or blanket.
 
We as a society need to do a better job with our resources as it relates to hunger and need. A few billion less spent on War toys would go a long way toward some solutions.

Some of that hunger is from lack of education. 60 Minutes did a thing on Buffet's son and his philanthropy and he has worked hard to teach some farming in some of the poorest areas. He just didn't give them food he taught them how to grow it. I think it was south America in the story. Point is there a lack of education. One could try to blame their country, community or family for not teaching them farming, planning etc or one can jump right in to the root of the problem-education/training.
 
It's easy to go on and on, day after day, about what the people in Washington and politicians, and Republicans or Democrats "need to do" ...and to tell people to call or write to politicians. But people who really feel and care, take action themselves....specifically what I said upthread in post 78.
 
Interesting thing about this thread. All this concern about unemployment and with today's new charts it seems we are near where Obama took over 6 1/2 years ago, Jan 1, 2009. So we are not doing so bad as some do think. Today's number could be better and look like those years before his term began. He did take over as the bad times were emerging and we are now nearly back to those early numbers. This all seems so much better than the sounds of some of the posts here.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey


YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec
20055.35.45.25.25.15.05.04.95.05.05.04.9
20064.74.84.74.74.64.64.74.74.54.44.54.4
20074.64.54.44.54.44.64.74.64.74.74.75.0
20085.04.95.15.05.45.65.86.16.16.56.87.3
20097.88.38.79.09.49.59.59.69.810.09.99.9
20109.89.89.99.99.69.49.49.59.59.49.89.3
20119.29.09.09.19.09.19.09.09.08.88.68.5
20128.38.38.28.28.28.28.28.07.87.87.77.9
20138.07.77.57.67.57.57.37.27.27.27.06.7
20146.66.76.66.26.36.16.26.15.95.75.85.6
20155.75.55.55.45.5
 
I did not prove you to be right. So now you want to take credit for what I write? Nice try. ;)Look at the bolded part (which you qupted from MY post #76). That is not what you've said; that is what *I* am saying. It's really not all that complicated, BobF.

Exactly what you wrote is just what I had posted at different times. There are too many sitting on their bums and waiting for funding. So by you saying the same things I have said in the past you are actually supporting my posts. You saw them and then said I had insinuated that. Having a hard time patching the two together I guess.
 
Can someone explain to an Aussie ..What Food stamps are ???.Oh it obvious they are to buy food.....Are they given to unemployed singles/ families in a type of credit card where they can only be used to pay for food, household bills, without the the person on welfare being given any cash ?

The Australian goverment introduced a card loaded with the welfare payment for people who are unable/ fail to manage their payments, by not paying rent, utilities or buying food.I believe anyone placed on the card system is forbidden to buy Alcohol, Cigarettes... I have no dought some find ways to get arround the no cash system to stil enable them buy Drugs,Alcohol, and ciggs..
 
Exactly what you wrote is just what I had posted at different times. There are too many sitting on their bums and waiting for funding. So by you saying the same things I have said in the past you are actually supporting my posts. You saw them and then said I had insinuated that. Having a hard time patching the two together I guess.

I never said there are “too many sitting on their bums”. I never said anything even slightly resembling that. If you will look you will see that I said “Sure there are some slackers”. This is a rather silly argument we are having, BobF, because the proof is right there on the screen in my posts, which have not been edited. And you accuse ME of twisting things? Really?
:rolleyes:

First you say I twist your words. Now you say I mimic/copy your words and say exactly what you said. Which is it? Make up your mind!

But, hey, go ahead and tell yourself whatever you need to. Enjoy. :rofl1:
 
I never said there are “too many sitting on their bums”. I never said anything even slightly resembling that. If you will look you will see that I said “Sure there are some slackers”. This is a rather silly argument we are having, BobF, because the proof is right there on the screen in my posts, which have not been edited. And you accuse ME of twisting things? Really?
:rolleyes:



First you say I twist your words. Now you say I mimic/copy your words and say exactly what you said. Which is it? Make up your mind!

But, hey, go ahead and tell yourself whatever you need to. Enjoy. :rofl1:

Best for me is to forget anything you say as you just refuse to agree that you are saying the same thing using different words.

Have a good day.
 
This is a straw man that the Right wing has brainwashed people into believing. People are getting paid for laying on their asses and are living high off the hog and eating lobster on the tax payer dime. That one and the myth that illegal immigrants are handed a Link card the minute they cross the boarder, and they are taken to the nearest hospital and treated for free... all on the taxpayer's dime. People, as you can see right here in this forum actually believe all this, and there is no convincing them otherwise. Throw in some religious and gun issues and that has been how the GOP has been able to get people to vote against their own financial interests and those of the average American. It's really been well planned and thought out..

Exactly. If the GOP would put as much energy and imagination into REALITY based solutions as they do towards deception and warped propaganda...well then they would actually have something worth listening to.
 
Interesting thing about this thread. All this concern about unemployment and with today's new charts it seems we are near where Obama took over 6 1/2 years ago, Jan 1, 2009. So we are not doing so bad as some do think. Today's number could be better and look like those years before his term began. He did take over as the bad times were emerging and we are now nearly back to those early numbers. This all seems so much better than the sounds of some of the posts here.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey


Year
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
2005
5.3
5.4
5.2
5.2
5.1
5.0
5.0
4.9
5.0
5.0
5.0
4.9
2006
4.7
4.8
4.7
4.7
4.6
4.6
4.7
4.7
4.5
4.4
4.5
4.4
2007
4.6
4.5
4.4
4.5
4.4
4.6
4.7
4.6
4.7
4.7
4.7
5.0
2008
5.0
4.9
5.1
5.0
5.4
5.6
5.8
6.1
6.1
6.5
6.8
7.3
2009
7.8
8.3
8.7
9.0
9.4
9.5
9.5
9.6
9.8
10.0
9.9
9.9
2010
9.8
9.8
9.9
9.9
9.6
9.4
9.4
9.5
9.5
9.4
9.8
9.3
2011
9.2
9.0
9.0
9.1
9.0
9.1
9.0
9.0
9.0
8.8
8.6
8.5
2012
8.3
8.3
8.2
8.2
8.2
8.2
8.2
8.0
7.8
7.8
7.7
7.9
2013
8.0
7.7
7.5
7.6
7.5
7.5
7.3
7.2
7.2
7.2
7.0
6.7
2014
6.6
6.7
6.6
6.2
6.3
6.1
6.2
6.1
5.9
5.7
5.8
5.6
2015
5.7
5.5
5.5
5.4
5.5
THIS IS KOOLAID! Google "Phony employment numbers" and you'll see how and why these numbers are a load of horse hockey. The principal problem is that they have factored out the people who have given up and left the workplace. It's a clever way of maintaining a false impression that things aren't so bad. YOUR GOVERNMENT IS PUPOSELY LYING TO YOU to make their failing policies look better. Read up on it, there's a lot there, and from many... many different sources.
 
This is a straw man that the Right wing has brainwashed people into believing. People are getting paid for laying on their asses and are living high off the hog and eating lobster on the tax payer dime. That one and the myth that illegal immigrants are handed a Link card the minute they cross the boarder, and they are taken to the nearest hospital and treated for free... all on the taxpayer's dime. People, as you can see right here in this forum actually believe all this, and there is no convincing them otherwise. Throw in some religious and gun issues and that has been how the GOP has been able to get people to vote against their own financial interests and those of the average American. It's really been well planned and thought out..

Yes, some do just sit on their butts and demand continued funding. But not all do that. It has been written up more than once about these folks and some are in their third generation of doing so. Your additional BS about them eating lobster is not true as in many cases what they can get with their dole is limited.

This bit about the illegals crossing the border and getting free hospital help is not really true. Not all are taken to a hospital, but those sick ones are and as is the rule in US hospital emergency rooms, the patient is examined first and only then is payment worried about. If these folks are taken to the hospital by the border patrol, they are likely to get free help as the doctors determine.

Yes, people on this forum and around the country to actually believe all this and so do a hell of a lot of Democrats as it has been our current government that is keeping the gates open so more illegals can get through and into the US. Not a joke, just another fact that many of you pretenders will deny.

Have a good night.
 
THIS IS KOOLAID! Google "Phony employment numbers" and you'll see how and why these numbers are a load of horse hockey. The principal problem is that they have factored out the people who have given up and left the workplace. It's a clever way of maintaining a false impression that things aren't so bad. YOUR GOVERNMENT IS PUPOSELY LYING TO YOU to make their failing policies look better. Read up on it, there's a lot there, and from many... many different sources.

Absolutely true. But it is the governments position prior to and since Obama took over. Too bad we can not get our unemployment system revised so it will handle those drop outs, those over runs so no longer eligible. The official chart is all we have to use. It will never get as good as it was prior to the ending of the housing building boom of past years. Some of that caused by allowing just about anyone to order and buy a new house. But then could not make the payments. So they had a new house for several months till the legals finally got them put out.
 
Can someone explain to an Aussie ..What Food stamps are ???.Oh it obvious they are to buy food.....Are they given to unemployed singles/ families in a type of credit card where they can only be used to pay for food, household bills, without the the person on welfare being given any cash ?

The Australian goverment introduced a card loaded with the welfare payment for people who are unable/ fail to manage their payments, by not paying rent, utilities or buying food.I believe anyone placed on the card system is forbidden to buy Alcohol, Cigarettes... I have no dought some find ways to get arround the no cash system to stil enable them buy Drugs,Alcohol, and ciggs..

In the states it's the same way and some, perhaps many, buy sell and trade them for illegal purposes not intended like drugs, alcohol and smokes. It's a big business and this is the stuff that drives some of our more liberal friends crazy, it makes their Kool-Aid bitter. Drives them into a frenzy. :)
 
I suspect that it is not our liberal friends driven to distraction here, but rather our Captains Of Blame, aficionados of Ayn Randian sociopathy, forever sailing The Good Ship Self-Righteous round and around and around, the same stagnant, self-serving mud puddle. Targeting the many for the sins of the few, how democratic. Mental masturbation at it's finest.
 
There was a time when I could actually do that! Took intense concentration, the results though were most unusual. However, I have never revealed this before, so details will be withheld! :eek: imp
 
I suspect that it is not our liberal friends driven to distraction here, but rather our Captains Of Blame, aficionados of Ayn Randian sociopathy, forever sailing The Good Ship Self-Righteous round and around and around, the same stagnant, self-serving mud puddle. Targeting the many for the sins of the few, how democratic. Mental masturbation at it's finest.

Best response on this thread!!! hahahahahahahaha and true!!
 

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