College campus protests news

 
College protests became very popular during the Vietnam War era. In some ways, the protest did have an effect on the outcome. It did somehow force the war to end and the draft along with it.

As long as protests remain peaceful, I am OK with them, but the moment they turn ugly and cause damage, they need to be stopped. People being hurt or worse, property being destroyed is not a protest. They are crimes.

When local governments fail to protect the people they are responsible for, they need to be removed from office.
 

Nathan said:
You don't see protests in North Korea, the citizens there don't have the privilege to air their objections to their government's actions.
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In Russia you can get jailed for calling a war a ‘war’.

How come nobody is protesting this? They certainly have had time to organize.

Estimates of the total number of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, by various war monitors, range between 580,000 as of May 2021, and approximately 617,910 as of March 2024. In late September 2021, the United Nations stated it had documented the deaths of at least 350,209 "identified individuals" in the conflict between March 2011 and March 2021, but cautioned the figure was "certainly an under-count" that specified only a "minimum verifiable number"
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Knight said:
Did you read your reference? What part of this do you not understand.

Quote
"while others dismissed it as a cosmetic effort that didn’t change Hamas’ underlying aims and methods1."
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Think about this.
If the intent of Hamas was to promote better relations with Israel then why build a network of tunnels & stock them with weapons of war?
I don't remember those on campus wanting Israel to stop putting in place an end to Hamas aggression to consider why this began in the 1st. place.
 
Paco Dennis said:
The US is sending a huge message that it supports the elimination of Hamas...completely. I guess when they are gone, Israel will set up a government to have Israel be all of Palestine. One state, I guess. While the UN is pushing for Palestine being recognized as its own state. Where will it be? I don't understand the logistics of what this is supposed to look like when all of Hamas is gone. Do they get a country? If so, it will need to be far away from Israel/Palestine.
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It is very clear that the Israeli government does not want Palestine there. Whether they simply grab the land, or more likely will allow it to remain but be totally under their control (which works better as a PR move), remains to be seen. Let's not forget, this issue goes back a long long time. Western governments have added fuel to this conflict, and continue to do so. They have nuclear weapons, and are the only country in the middle east to get them. Blame France and the UK for that nightmare.

Oh, and Hamas does not represent every Palestinian.
 
Knight said:
I expected you to avoid saying what you would if you were the leader in Israel. Easy to condemn what you aren't responsible for.
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That's an odd comment, surely anything anyone says about this topic can be discarded in the same way? Let's not forget, the Israeli government couldn't wage this was of we didn't continue to supply them with arms to kill Palestinian with.

Knight said:
Unlike Hamas the IDF wear unforms & are identifiable. Finding the people responsible for the attack that began this isn't an easy task when the enemy hides among the civilian population. If the civilian population immediately turned in or exposed Hamas combatants & didn't fear being killed by Hamas, IMO the destruction you cite wouldn't have happened.
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I'm sorry, but it's not the job of combatants to be easily identifiable. War is never an easy thing, nor is it pretty. Still, we have defined war crimes, which many believe the Israeli government have breached more than once. The idea that Palestinians - being bombed into oblivion - should start handing in Hamas members is, frankly, bizarre. They have no food. No water. No homes. No electricity. Few medical supplies. But wait - let's go tell on Bob, he's a member of Hamas you know!

Think about it. If I were in Palestine right now, would I really have any trust whatsoever in engaging with the Israeli military? They're not friends. They're not helping people. They're shooting people. Killing children. Destroying homes and factories.

Knight said:
As for Hamas this seems to me to be far more credible that your questioning Israels intent. I don't remember reading where Israel built tunnels to prepare to attack the innocent citizens of Palestine.
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No, they built a great big WALL. :D

Knight said:
Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel. Hamas distanced itself from the longstanding Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)—an umbrella organization for disparate Palestinian factions that ranged from Marxist to secular nationalists—by propagating resistance in the religious context of jihad, or a holy struggle and martyrdom. “Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes,” Hamas said in its first statement in the late 1980s. Predominantly Shiite Iran has armed, trained and funded Hamas since the late 1980s largely due to its opposition to Israel and Islamic ideology.

Doctrine of Hamas.

What do you think Hamas would do if Israel had never responded?
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You must be missing some of my posts. I am not, in any way, pro Hamas. I have stated before that after the attack from Hamas, a response was inevitable and justified. But it should have been a measured response, and certainly a long way from what we're seeing. They've simply gone, and are going, too far. On your and my dime. The approval rating for the Israeli leader - in Israel - is low, and getting lower. He's won five elections, and everything he's done in his tenure has brought us here. Yet in the shock and horror of what happened, and is happening, we should easily forget and forgive the failures of the past?

I am AGAINST the killing of civilians, especially women and children. This killing is not being done right now by Hamas, it's being done by Israel, and it should stop, imo. It is estimated that 31,000 Palestinians have died in this war thus far. 14,000 of that number were children. Sorry, that does not sit well with me, it's unforgivable. My own country is complicit, and it's sickening. IMO.

On that - I had a policy of not getting involved in these debates on the forum, and I've clearly let that slip. America stands alone, it seems, in its complete trust and faith in the government of Israel. Further afield, you get a broader view. Talking about Israel with Americans is right up there with Gun Control. :D

Still, I'll gladly read a reply if you feel one is warranted, but I won't reply. Frankly, I ultimately see a discussion rather pointless and will only cause angst. So I think I've made myself clear, and nothing else will add too much. As such, I retire.
 
Knight said:
Think about this.
If the intent of Hamas was to promote better relations with Israel then why build a network of tunnels & stock them with weapons of war?
I don't remember those on campus wanting Israel to stop putting in place an end to Hamas aggression to consider why this began in the 1st. place.
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Are you being serious? You know this conflict goes back to 1947 - right? You know there is zero trust on either side?
 
Nathan said:
You don't see protests in North Korea, the citizens there don't have the privilege to air their objections to their government's actions.
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This isn't true. They can protest. Just not for very long, and once they're seen they're relocated. Forever. In a world that is moving ever more quickly, think of it as a five-minute protest with a lifetime of consequences.
 
Brookswood said:
In Russia you can get jailed for calling a war a ‘war’.

How come nobody is protesting this? They certainly have had time to organize.
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This fascinates me about China, North Korea, and Russia. I guess it has to do with the way the governments control access to media of all kinds. It's a mass psychosis. I've seen a number of interviews with Russians since the Ukraine war started, and their view isn't ignorant as much as its just plain misinformed. They're misinformed about some of their victories and what they meant! And it's not a blissful ignorance, it's just normal day-to-day operations.

I often wonder why they don't protest and rise up, but the truth is, it's their normal. Amazing.
 
VaughanJB said:
It is very clear that the Israeli government does not want Palestine there. Whether they simply grab the land, or more likely will allow it to remain but be totally under their control (which works better as a PR move), remains to be seen. Let's not forget, this issue goes back a long long time. Western governments have added fuel to this conflict, and continue to do so. They have nuclear weapons, and are the only country in the middle east to get them. Blame France and the UK for that nightmare.

Oh, and Hamas does not represent every Palestinian.
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If Hamas doesn't represent everyone, then will will the people in Gaza stand up for themselves against them? Why allow Hamas to destroy your country & standby while they do it?

In WW2 you had resistance fighters who fought back for their country & life style by various means.
 
Islam will ALWAYS be hostile towards Judaism, and probably every other religion. The US and other Western nations should open their doors and welcome Israel’s Jews. It would be a plus for the West, and give Islam less to gripe about. All in all, a plus for the world. In doubt? Check out the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Jews. (-8
 

VaughanJB said:
That's an odd comment, surely anything anyone says about this topic can be discarded in the same way? Let's not forget, the Israeli government couldn't wage this was of we didn't continue to supply them with arms to kill Palestinian with.



I'm sorry, but it's not the job of combatants to be easily identifiable. War is never an easy thing, nor is it pretty. Still, we have defined war crimes, which many believe the Israeli government have breached more than once. The idea that Palestinians - being bombed into oblivion - should start handing in Hamas members is, frankly, bizarre. They have no food. No water. No homes. No electricity. Few medical supplies. But wait - let's go tell on Bob, he's a member of Hamas you know!

Think about it. If I were in Palestine right now, would I really have any trust whatsoever in engaging with the Israeli military? They're not friends. They're not helping people. They're shooting people. Killing children. Destroying homes and factories.



No, they built a great big WALL. :D



You must be missing some of my posts. I am not, in any way, pro Hamas. I have stated before that after the attack from Hamas, a response was inevitable and justified. But it should have been a measured response, and certainly a long way from what we're seeing. They've simply gone, and are going, too far. On your and my dime. The approval rating for the Israeli leader - in Israel - is low, and getting lower. He's won five elections, and everything he's done in his tenure has brought us here. Yet in the shock and horror of what happened, and is happening, we should easily forget and forgive the failures of the past?

I am AGAINST the killing of civilians, especially women and children. This killing is not being done right now by Hamas, it's being done by Israel, and it should stop, imo. It is estimated that 31,000 Palestinians have died in this war thus far. 14,000 of that number were children. Sorry, that does not sit well with me, it's unforgivable. My own country is complicit, and it's sickening. IMO.

On that - I had a policy of not getting involved in these debates on the forum, and I've clearly let that slip. America stands alone, it seems, in its complete trust and faith in the government of Israel. Further afield, you get a broader view. Talking about Israel with Americans is right up there with Gun Control. :D

Still, I'll gladly read a reply if you feel one is warranted, but I won't reply. Frankly, I ultimately see a discussion rather pointless and will only cause angst. So I think I've made myself clear, and nothing else will add too much. As such, I retire.
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I'm sorry, but it's not the job of combatants to be easily identifiable.
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Yes, it is.

Uniform | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

Clothing, usually of a specific colour/design, and insignia, worn by members of the same military unit. In international armed conflicts, combatants have an obligation to distinguish themselves from the civilian population and this can be achieved by wearing a uniform.
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There is something in the international rules of warfare that requires combatants to be identifiable. It is called the Rule of Distinction. That is why a combatant who is out of uniform can be treated as a spy and shot, versus being treated as a prisoner of war. If soldiers are not in some sort of uniform, they make identifying them from civilians difficult or impossible. This makes it impossible for their opposition to do their job of not intentionally harming civilians.

Soldiers not in uniform of some type become “illegal combatants”.

What to do when combatants don’t dress in an identifiable way is a thorny issue that modern people who have studied don’t have a good answer for.

But as we can see, part of the job of being a soldier is to be identifiable on the battlefield. Such are the rules of warfare.
 
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Lilac said:
If Hamas doesn't represent everyone, then will will the people in Gaza stand up for themselves against them? Why allow Hamas to destroy your country & standby while they do it?
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Perhaps because 50% weren't even old enough to vote Hamas in and how are teenagers and children going to "stand up for themselves"?
  • Of the more than 2 million people living in Gaza, roughly half are under the age of 18. That's according to the United Nations. And that means many of the civilians experiencing these airstrikes now and bracing for an Israeli ground invasion are children.
 
After 75 years of fighting and unrest, resulting in countless deaths and destruction, not much has changed. And does anyone here think that a lasting peace will ever come to this land? I think not, for when it comes to religion, there seems to be little room for compromise.

And I keep thinking of an observation I read years ago... something like "All this fighting going on in Israel, and that is the only part of the area without oil resources".
 
Brookswood said:
Yes, it is.

Uniform | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook



There is something in the international rules of warfare that requires combatants to be identifiable. It is called the Rule of Distinction. That is why a combatant who is out of uniform can be treated as a spy and shot, versus being treated as a prisoner of war. If soldiers are not in some sort of uniform, they make identifying them from civilians difficult or impossible. This makes it impossible for their opposition to do their job of not intentionally harming civilians.

Soldiers not in uniform of some type become “illegal combatants”.

What to do when combatants don’t dress in an identifiable way is a thorny issue that modern people who have studied don’t have a good answer for.

But as we can see, part of the job of being a soldier is to be identifiable on the battlefield. Such are the rules of warfare.
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Hamas fighters do wear a simple head band, or arm band, in green color, BUT that can be quickly removed and thrown away. When they do that, they are just another young male in jeans and sandals and a T shirt. JimB.
 
VaughanJB said:
Are you being serious? You know this conflict goes back to 1947 - right? You know there is zero trust on either side?
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That portion was directed at a Paco Dennis post. If you are going to cherry pick at least use the entire response.

As an arm chair critic of Israels response it is easy for you to criticize. You had no response to what you would do to assure the Israeli population that Hamas would neve attack Israel again.
 
For those opposed to any report by Fox news, this opinion piece with some facts sheds light on funding for campus protests. IMO worth listening to the entire 6.21 minutes

WSJ Opinion: The Sources of the Pro-Palestinian Demonstrations

Journal Editorial Report: Paul Gigot interviews Middle East specialist Jonathan Schanzer. Image: Geoff Stellfox/Associated Press


MSN
 
Nathan said:
Lol, so technically they can, but doing so may end up being life altering. :unsure:
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As stated, I don't want to reply to this thread any longer. I don't see anything good coming from it, and I'm not at all convinced some participants are much interested in my opinion on the matter since it's not that shared by much of the US.

That said, I have read the responses, I'm just not reply to them - with this one exception. ;)

People of China and North Korea have many rights. The right to die hungry. The right to get public housing in government funded gulags. The right to pray to their esteemed leader. The right to not speak freely on the internet. It's complicated. :D
 
seadoug said:
Perhaps because 50% weren't even old enough to vote Hamas in and how are teenagers and children going to "stand up for themselves"?
  • Of the more than 2 million people living in Gaza, roughly half are under the age of 18. That's according to the United Nations. And that means many of the civilians experiencing these airstrikes now and bracing for an Israeli ground invasion are children.
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Teenagers stood up & fought in the resistance in WW2. Audrey Hepburn was just one of them.

If you see what is happening after what Hamas has done that even before Oct. by denying basic human rights of freedom of living your life as you see fit, why wouldn't you fight for your family?
 
It has been said a couple times that nobody is going to change their view of this conflict by what we say on this forum. My view has changed. As I have been challenged , I have researched, I have learned things I did not know or was even aware of. Now I have many doubts about how Hamas has executed this war. It seems they have literally sacrificied 1000's of innocent citizen's and won't surrender. I can't understand that. Just surrender and end this thing before there is nothing left. What could possibly be the reason for Hamas to keep hiding in tunnels or in Qatar. They like their man caves more than their loyalty to their people. It is sick. Stop it, today!...What could possibly be stopping them from surrendering?

So discussing difficult to understand subjects can be very useful in helping others understand more fully the situations.
 

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