Domestic Violence Remains a Problem in the U.S.

I flew into Denver quite a lot mainly because it was a United hub. Many years ago, I sat in the Crew's Lounge reading the local paper, The Denver Post. I read a story about a state trooper who was charged and found guilty of raping a child, but was allowed to be free until sentencing to give him time to get his affairs in order.

He knew he was going to go away for a long time. He drove his car up on top of a mountain pass where the Interstate runs down hill. He parked his car on the side of the road and waited until he heard a big truck coming down the hill. As the truck reached him, he walked out onto the roadway and stood in front of the big semi.

I have seen what semis do to a deer when they hit one and I can only imagine that the cops or whoever were picking up pieces of this trooper as well. Death may have been instantaneous, but his family didn't have much left to bury.
 

Murrmurr said:
I have literally watched state prosecuting attorneys present offers to some of these guys' defense lawyers, and the defense and judge accepting the offers, usually for a reduced charge and sentence. Texas is one of the tougher states I've seen. It surprised me that Missouri seems to be among the more lenient.

Of course, some weight is given to the accused's history....I was recalling an actual case. The victim was a 9yr-old girl, the accused, her uncle, had no criminal history, penetrative assault was not proven because the child was not taken to a doctor and never examined by one, so the charge was reduced to Inappropriate Touching.

Obviously, part of the problem was that her parents didn't take her to a doctor ...or do much of anything, really (fear of CPS, I assume). They didn't even report it to the police, her grandfather did.

It really highlighted how crucial it is for the adults of an assaulted child to act responsibly (and protectively!), and to go into court with all the evidence they can possibly get. After all, the defendant is "assumed innocent." It also highlights that prosecutors shouldn't offer deals, at least not in certain cases....at least. I get that they want a guilty plea so an offender has that on record, but the record won't be accurate. Not in this case, anyway.
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Without evidence, it becomes very difficult for any prosecutor to "win" a case. DA's are very reluctant to file complaints with the court or assign cases to Prosecutors without substantial evidence. They used to remind me, "We only get one chance to win our case." They want cold hard facts with evidence. Even though they can win with a circumstantial case, having physical evidence will usually seal the deal. You have to be able to convince the jury of 12 people that this person is unquestionably guilty. People on a jury want to see physical evidence or have so much circumstantial evidence that the defendant can't worm his/her way out.

Back in the mid 90's, an uncle was accused of sexually assaulting a 14 y/o female (his niece) since she was 7 y/o. I was called to the school to speak with her. Once I learned what I was dealing with, I requested a female Trooper to join me. Together, we questioned the child and my first question was why did she wait so long before coming forward. Her response was that she was afraid because he threatened the family had she told anyone.

That's generally the reason that's given in these situations. Threats and intimidation usually are the key to having the child keep their mouth shut. Getting the child to testify on the stand is the problem. Very few want to do that, so the DA's options are slim. In a case where the victim will not testify. usually the DA's only left with attempting to cut a deal. However, in this case, the parents asked her to please testify. I told her that even though your uncle will be in the courtroom, you do not have to look at him and she agreed.

This worm thought he was going to get 20 years and with good behavior would be out in 10. That was until, we told him the sentence is up to 20 years per charge. The victim couldn't tell us how many times she was assaulted, but it was several. The DA asked for a 50 year sentence with no parole for 30 years. The judge handed down a 35 years sentence w/o parole for 25 years and 10 years parole once released, plus a $25,000 fine and of course, he would have to register as a Pedophile in PA and go onto the national database. This is called having the book thrown at you.
 
oldman said:
I had a flight attendant that came to work on my plane one evening. I seldom notice F/As, but every now and then, I have reason to communicate with one or two. The one evening, I asked the Purser who was in charge of feeding the pilots and she told me Barbara was. I asked her if she would feed us early because I do not like to eat late due to going to bed in a hotel at 11 at night.

When she brought the food into the cockpit and handed me my napkin, I noticed her hand was full of scratches and cuts and then her sleeve moved up her arm and I saw some bruising. I asked her how did she get them. She was lying to me and I knew it. There was no doubt, the bruising was from applied pressure.

I told her if she is being abused, she needs to call the HELP line United had setup. She wouldn't and a few weeks later, I got word that she had the heck beat out of her by her live-in boyfriend and she told the cops at the hospital who it was, but he was n the run. The cops soon caught him and after all was said and done, he ended up with being sentenced to a 20 years in state prison. I think he got out in 10, but she had divorced him and was warned if he went within 500 feet of her, he would serve the other 10 years.
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I cannot imagine calling a phone help line set up by my employer, which tells you what kind of employers I've had.

There is a psychological thing called "trauma bonding" and I give credit to the mostly young people who post over at Reddit for telling this reader about it.

But when people wonder, "Why didn't she just leave him?", besides the fact that the abuser has probably told her all kind of hellfire and legal ramifications will rain down upon her if she leaves, it is this bond of trauma that is hard to break.

https://psychcentral.com/relationships/what-is-trauma-bonding#trauma-bonding
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/trauma-bonding
From the article above:
"A trauma bond in a relationship involves a foundation of abuse, which may hinge on tactics such as threats of harm, manipulation, control, shaming, gaslighting, and sabotage, mixed with intermittent moments of calm and displays of affection. This pattern of highs and lows increases a victim’s unhealthy attachment to the abuser, which helps maintain the relationship."

Now, the problem with our legal system, is that some of these TACTICS, like threats of harm, manipulation, shaming, and gaslighting, are also used by DEFENSE LAWYERS. They are used by prosecutors too, but the defense lawyer is the one defending the abuser so a victim often has to put up with this crap if she/they go to court for a trial about the abuse or a divorce. Questions like, "Isn't it true, Ms. Vintage, that you said such-and-such to so-and-so?" and then the lawyer states something I never said or did.

But the framing of, "Isn't it true?" frames the question like an accusation, so an accusation will actually influence the minds of those who hear it. Just the manipulation of the words can influence the minds of a judge or jury. Experienced judges can see through that. They know what's going on. But juries? Not always. And when you go to court you usually know nothing about the judge. Your lawyer might, but, maybe not.

We don't have Yelp for judges, right? The reason we don't have that is because lawyers and judges will jump on those opinions expressed on Yelp, or a Yelp-like site and prosecute the posters for defamation.

Example: I heard someone say once, just a layperson talking about a case, regarding a man who had been accused of a serious felony, "Well, he must have done it because otherwise why would he have been arrested?"

A lot of laypeople, many laypeople, do not understand that police and lawyers make mistakes all day long. The court is there not only to prosecute true criminals but to fix the mistakes of the police and lawyers.

Ah, but the mistakes can be made in minutes or hours. Then it can take decades and tens of thousands of dollars to fix them. It's all very ****ed up.

This is why I think, if we really want to fix the system, we need Lawyer Grants. Establish a fund, make it gov't. funded, but people can donate into it if they choose to, and people can apply for Grants to pay their legal fees. Some will get rejected, but many more will most likely be granted. Establish this Grant Fund so the Average Jill can hire the best lawyers - the lawyers who actually understand Trauma Bonds and won't ask stupid questions like, "Well, if he really did abuse her why didn't she leave him sooner?"

However, I have digressed. No doubt the flight attendant did not call the help line because of the shame she carried from the abuse and maybe the trauma bond.
 

911 said:
Without evidence, it becomes very difficult for any prosecutor to "win" a case. DA's are very reluctant to file complaints with the court or assign cases to Prosecutors without substantial evidence. They used to remind me, "We only get one chance to win our case." They want cold hard facts with evidence. Even though they can win with a circumstantial case, having physical evidence will usually seal the deal. You have to be able to convince the jury of 12 people that this person is unquestionably guilty. People on a jury want to see physical evidence or have so much circumstantial evidence that the defendant can't worm his/her way out.

Back in the mid 90's, an uncle was accused of sexually assaulting a 14 y/o female (his niece) since she was 7 y/o. I was called to the school to speak with her. Once I learned what I was dealing with, I requested a female Trooper to join me. Together, we questioned the child and my first question was why did she wait so long before coming forward. Her response was that she was afraid because he threatened the family had she told anyone.

That's generally the reason that's given in these situations. Threats and intimidation usually are the key to having the child keep their mouth shut. Getting the child to testify on the stand is the problem. Very few want to do that, so the DA's options are slim. In a case where the victim will not testify. usually the DA's only left with attempting to cut a deal. However, in this case, the parents asked her to please testify. I told her that even though your uncle will be in the courtroom, you do not have to look at him and she agreed.

This worm thought he was going to get 20 years and with good behavior would be out in 10. That was until, we told him the sentence is up to 20 years per charge. The victim couldn't tell us how many times she was assaulted, but it was several. The DA asked for a 50 year sentence with no parole for 30 years. The judge handed down a 35 years sentence w/o parole for 25 years and 10 years parole once released, plus a $25,000 fine and of course, he would have to register as a Pedophile in PA and go onto the national database. This is called having the book thrown at you.
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I'm glad that case worked out, but darn, we must acknowledge that it's a ****ed up system that forces a 14-year-old, seven-year-victim of sexual assault on the stand, in front of a bunch of strangers, to be the one and only key witness in such a case.

I hope to God the prosecutor at least called in one or two expert witnesses, psychologists, to back-up that poor child - to say that her behavior of not telling would not be unusual or suspect after so many years of abuse.

You can tell I have a lot of issues with our legal system. I took classes just to understand the thing. It has baffled me for decades.
 
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@VintageBetter
"Why didn't she just leave him?" People who ask that question immediately identify themselves as uninformed about DV issues.
Coercive control is behind the vast majority of family domestic violence and intimate partner violence cases. Scotland has set the benchmark for coercive control legislation.
Currently in Western Australia DV is very much in the news. I'm presently limited to my phone for internet access so I can't link you in but if search Ariel Bombara and Floreat shooting you will get the info about it. Here the politicians and police are actually more part of the problem than they are part of the solution. Their rhetoric has sounded great but their actions don't back it up. 🙁
 
Everyone agrees that these issues need to be addressed, but how? Court systems are clogged, prisons overcrowded, and many police departments understaffed. The U.S. has more people in prison per capita than most countries in the world, a little under one percent of our population. In my state it costs about $30,000 per year per prisoner. For those victims that survive, retribution in the form of a prison sentence can make the victim feel a little has been done, deterrence has little effect, nor does reform.
 
VintageBetter said:
I'm glad that case worked out, but darn, we must acknowledge that it's a ****ed up system that forces a 14-year-old, seven-year-victim of sexual assault on the stand, in front of a bunch of strangers, to be the one and only key witness in such a case.

I hope to God the prosecutor at least called in one or two expert witnesses, psychologists, to back-up that poor child - to say that her behavior of not telling would not be unusual or suspect after so many years of abuse.

You can tell I have a lot of issues with our legal system. I took classes just to understand the thing. It has baffled me for decades.
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The defense attorney tried his best to intimidate her into saying what he wanted her to say. He asked a question about whether or not she enjoyed it at all and the Judge said, "Mr. Smith, you just crossed over the line." With that he sat down.
 
Shadowman said:
Everyone agrees that these issues need to be addressed, but how? Court systems are clogged, prisons overcrowded, and many police departments understaffed. The U.S. has more people in prison per capita than most countries in the world, a little under one percent of our population. In my state it costs about $30,000 per year per prisoner. For those victims that survive, retribution in the form of a prison sentence can make the victim feel a little has been done, deterrence has little effect, nor does reform.
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About the only thing most of us can do is demand changes from our state and federal representatives. Research who's running for election, write letters, leave voicemail messages, and only vote for people who want the kind of changes you want.
 
I was glad to see a decent amount of response to the OP because 911 and I are friends and he has often expressed to me the brutality of some of the DV cases he has investigated both as a uniform and plain clothes Trooper.

If each of us aren't willing to report these cases or suspicious cases to the law, it will never get resolved. I don't expect DV will ever go away, but just to get it lessened would be a major step. I am sure most of us has either seen or heard stories of DV and yet, what did we do than to say, That's a darn shame.

I really have no respect and can't stand any man that hits a woman or beats a child. Real men don't do that. They have a very large advantage over the woman or child and they know it. Some of the things they do to these two groups of people they would never even try on another man, unless they want to take a trip to the morgue looking at the ceiling.

Years back now, I saw a big woman slap her 6 or 7 year old across the face in Target and I had to open my big mouth and tell her off. Guess who was asked to leave the store? It wasn't her. I told my wife, it was spontaneous on my part. I said the things I did to her without thinking. I let the basket of products sitting and walked out.
 
In the late sixties I knew a beautiful young woman who was born after Auschwitz, at a refugee camp. Her parents moved to NYC after that. In college, where I met her, she met and fell in love with a Christian boy born in Germany. Both families hounded them; her parents announced her death and sat shiva for her. Her reaction was to jump in front of an oncoming subway train. It took her three agonizing days to die.
 
hollydolly said:
..you think so ?... some of these 'real men' are child abusers, murderers, .. who are just too cowardly to face up to the justice from the law.
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I believe that you are taking the post literally.
I can't speak for the poster, but when men say "it takes a real man" that usually means he has a huge set of gonads. I mean, who has enough guts to walk in front of a 150 ton locomotive going about 60 or more mph? Definitely not me. You either have to be totally insane or looking for front page headlines. Either way, you get your wish.
 
911 said:
I believe that you are taking the post literally.
I can't speak for the poster, but when men say "it takes a real man" that usually means he has a huge set of gonads. I mean, who has enough guts to walk in front of a 150 ton locomotive going about 60 or more mph? Definitely not me. You either have to be totally insane or looking for front page headlines. Either way, you get your wish.
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well of course... most of the people who jump in front of a train are mentally unstable in one way or another
 
hollydolly said:
well of course... most of the people who jump in front of a train are mentally unstable in one way or another
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I saw a man in an SUV that was hit by a train going about 35 mph, I think. He crossed the tracks because he was in a hurry and went around the gates. He was killed with a broken neck as the cause of death and it was ruled accidental as the manner of death, even though the insurance company tried to have it changed to suicide. I testified at that trail. The Insurance company's attorney was an idiot. He was unprepared and asked irrelevant questions that every time he asked a question, the attorney for the claimant would object and the objection would be sustained.
 
911 said:
I believe that you are taking the post literally.
I can't speak for the poster, but when men say "it takes a real man" that usually means he has a huge set of gonads. I mean, who has enough guts to walk in front of a 150 ton locomotive going about 60 or more mph? Definitely not me. You either have to be totally insane or looking for front page headlines. Either way, you get your wish.
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You are so right.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Raping a 9 year old can be reduced to a misdemeanour
That’s outrageous.
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Not in Canada Patty. That would be an aggravated sexual assault, against a minor child. Let us remember that IN Canada, the Crown Prosecutor makes the decision about charges being laid, not the victim. Because our Crown Prosecutors are not elected, they are free to prosecute without political pressure from above. In DV cases in Canada, the Police gather the evidence, and prepare a Crown brief that outlines the case and the physical facts found. The victim does not have the legal right in Canada to "refuse to press charges " that decision rests on the Crown Prosecutor, many of whom are Women. Repeat domestic violence offenders ( of BOTH Genders ) can be sent to prison for years. JimB In Toronto.
 
jimintoronto said:
Not in Canada Patty. That would be an aggravated sexual assault, against a minor child. Let us remember that IN Canada, the Crown Prosecutor makes the decision about charges being laid, not the victim. Because our Crown Prosecutors are not elected, they are free to prosecute without political pressure from above. In DV cases in Canada, the Police gather the evidence, and prepare a Crown brief that outlines the case and the physical facts found. The victim does not have the legal right in Canada to "refuse to press charges " that decision rests on the Crown Prosecutor, many of whom are Women. Repeat domestic violence offenders ( of BOTH Genders ) can be sent to prison for years. JimB In Toronto.
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It’s outrageous that it happens that way anywhere in the world.

Victims used to have a right to not press charges . I know because the many time social services called the police on what was happening with me. When my dad broke his hand in 3 places hitting me , he was NOT charged. He got away Scott free. I didn’t press charges and never did the police.

Sexual charges can be pressed at any time during the victims life. This I do know. There is no time limit.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
It’s outrageous that it happens that way anywhere in the world.

Victims used to have a right to not press charges . I know because the many time social services called the police on what was happening with me. When my dad broke his hand in 3 places hitting me , he was NOT charged. He got away Scott free. I didn’t press charges and never did the police.

Sexual charges can be pressed at any time during the victims life. This I do know. There is no time limit.
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How many decades ago was that happening to you ? Canadian law has changed in the years since that happened to you. Since at least 1980 the Police in Canada don't have a choice about laying charges in a DV situation, and in some cases BOTH persons are charged if the physical injuries warrant it. JimB.
 

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