Possible solutions for fire prone areas of the country

VintageBetter said:
OR, is it about leaving the U.S. lumber market open to foreign, imported lumber?

I can see Gov. Newsom rationalizing a choice like that: partner with China for all the lumber needs while setting a torch to CA forests. He would call that "globalism", not "rampant, hypocritical, CO2 pollution".

The hypocrisy of it all is astonishing. The Fed gives us subsidies so we can afford TVs, but also authorizes the volunteering burning of thousands of acres of unusable timber to create clouds of CO2.

If we all stay in our lanes, innovations never happen. The oil companies have been telling EV car designers that for 90 years: "People will never buy cars that have to be re-charged. Give it up." But they didn't listen.

Can't pine wood be bleached to kill all traces of blue mold and then used to make furniture? I also just read that pine is good for exterior projects. Maybe they mean pressure treated pine?

All I know is, ashes ain't good for much at all except maybe for mulch. But you can't build things from ash. Nor can you make a table and chairs from it.
Click to expand...
Good grief. You honestly think Gov Newsom wants to burn down California so we can buy lumber from China? That's like setting fire to your house so you can bake some cookies. I'll be kind and not tell you what I'm thinking about that conspiracy theory.

Next point: "If we all stay in our lanes, innovations never happen." The very reason why the EV designers didn't listen is because they were in their lane. They weren't letting someone who didn't know what they were talking about tell them they couldn't innovate. Innovation happens all the time from people who are specialists in their field and are always tinkering with what's possible.

Lastly, pine can be used for fences if it's pressure treated. It's not very attractive, but it is a cheaper alternative when you can't use cedar or redwood. On the other point, yes you can make furniture with pine, but generally soft woods don't make sound furniture. Shelves are fine, and a few other things, but it's just not as valuable as Doug Fir, Cedar, and others. Salvage loggers will harvest dead trees if they can get to them in a short time window before it goes to hell, but it can't involve a lot of expense or it's a losing proposition.

As for ash not being good for anything, that is exactly what major wildfires leave behind. This thread is about preventing that. One solution is controlled burns because you get to choose the weather and timing, you get to make sure resources for containing it are available, preparations are made with fire lines, setting back fires, and minimizing the smoke impact because it's done in stages.

A great many people with degrees in wildfire management, forestry, and ecology, and now climate science have been reckoning with this problem for decades, and unless you've spent time if the backwoods, you have no clue as to the scope of this problem. Building Hoover Dam is a walk in the park compared to this challenge.
 

@bobcat it's also an issue here, but thankfully we do have some backburning done.

What I find very interesting is that the first Australians used to go walkabout and once they were done with the place that they stopped at for a while, they set it on fire that way the next time they came to the same spot, it would be fresh.
 
JBR said:
Are you speaking for yourself, Murrmurr?
Or being facetious?🤔
Click to expand...
I'm remembering when hundreds of activists went up into a Northern Calif forest back in the 70s to literally hug trees marked for cutting by a lumber company while environmental lobbyists were telling a congressional committee that those trees were the only homes of a rare owl, a bug that lives under tree bark, and a forest frog.

Well, it turned out the owl isn't at all rare, the bugs aren't very particular about the type of tree they bore into, and they eventually kill the trees anyway, and the frogs didn't even exist.
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm remembering when hundreds of activists went up into a Northern Calif forest back in the 70s to literally hug trees marked for cutting by a lumber company while environmental lobbyists were telling a congressional committee that those trees were the only homes of a rare owl, a bug that lives under tree bark, and a forest frog.

Well, it turned out the owl isn't at all rare, the bugs aren't very particular about the type of tree they bore into, and they eventually kill the trees anyway, and the frogs didn't even exist.
Click to expand...
Well, I believe that sort of thing belongs to the past. As far as I can see, that could only be a vague generalization, and that "environmentalists" probably no longer fit that pattern, stereotype, or caricature.
 
JBR said:
Well, I believe that sort of thing belongs to the past. As far as I can see, that could only be a vague generalization, and that "environmentalists" probably no longer fit that pattern, stereotype, or caricature.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but those protests devastated the lumber industry for at least a few decades, US Forestry and the BLM made regulatory changes that are still in effect, and some environmental scientists say that less tree-felling by lumber companies (due to those regulations) is part of the cause of Calif's frequent wildfires.
 
As a person who has lived in in North Western PA , once known for it's timber & oil.
Growing up & hearing the old timer's stories.
Then walking the woods, fishing in the streams, instilled a strong interest in what was happening .

Somewhere during my school years, I remember a teacher telling us how the Rain Forests of South America controlled a lot of what happened to the rest of the world. ??? really??

My husband started his working life learning how to cut down timber.
Than later in a saw mill.
Having children turned him to working in the local steel mill.
To pay the bills, we both worked hauling out paper wood.

Here we in present day ,, timber cutting it supposed to be done on Tree Farms.
And heating your home with wood is frowned on,use of natural gas isn't far behind that.
 
JBR said:
Murrmurr, here on SF you've shown yourself to be a smart and thoughtful man. Why not share your thoughts about the question Bobcat wrote in his OP?
Click to expand...
I didn't see a question. I agree with his statements.

When you hike through state park forests, the trails are pretty well maintained - rangers keep them clear of fallen trees and dead shrubs, stone and wood barriers are realigned and replaced as needed, etc - but to maintain entire US forests is impossible. They are massive. It would cost a fortune, there aren't enough rangers, and the terrain and density prohibit getting equipment up into the majority of it.

"Forested land in the U.S. covers roughly 818,814,000 acres (3,313,622 square kilometers), roughly 36.21% or about one-third of the U.S."

And a lot of that acreage is protected, and one of the things it's protected from is lumber company deforesting (another is mining). The US Forestry Service, the BLM, and the EPA seem to be ignoring environmental scientists and experts who advocate selective deforesting. I mean, it is allowed, but according to experts, it's too limited.

Granted, like I said, the terrain and density of several hundred million of those acres prohibits getting equipment up into it via ground transport, but if the solution is clearing several key areas to build "forestry bases" with room for helicopters and military-type equipment and personnel carriers and stuff, I think we should do that. It would be very expensive, but we have millions and millions of dollars in losses to wildfires every year, so, worth it imo....but a hard sell for taxpayers, I suppose (even though it would mean tens of thousands of new jobs). And it's an issue that people generally only talk about after there's been a major fire.
 
Sliverfox said:
As a person who has lived in in North Western PA , once known for it's timber & oil.
Growing up & hearing the old timer's stories.
Then walking the woods, fishing in the streams, instilled a strong interest in what was happening .

Somewhere during my school years, I remember a teacher telling us how the Rain Forests of South America controlled a lot of what happened to the rest of the world. ??? really??

My husband started his working life learning how to cut down timber.
Than later in a saw mill.
Having children turned him to working in the local steel mill.
To pay the bills, we both worked hauling out paper wood.

Here we in present day ,, timber cutting it supposed to be done on Tree Farms.
And heating your home with wood is frowned on,use of natural gas isn't far behind that.
Click to expand...
Also, construction companies are being encouraged to use wood alternatives such as steel-framing and synthetic materials.
 
I didn't realize anyone was against controlled burns. I googled it and apparently the particular environmental scientist being interviewed in the article I read, said it allowed non-native weeds to take over etc.

I've got a little experience with that, not from a burn but from hiring a weed control person who used a newly (this was 20 yrs ago) approved chemical that apparently he didn't have enough experience with the amount to use, because he completely killed off my north pasture. The first year I seeded and fertilized but nothing at all grew. The next spring the pasture turned green, but the ONLY plant growing in the poisoned soil was Kochia (a noxious weed that can be poisonous to horses).

In spite of the negatives I was actually happy to see the Kochia because it stopped the soil erosion that was happening with the bare soil, and after mowing it down a bit it gave an impression of a pasture (much less sad to see than bare soil). And it didn't seem to hurt the horses to be allowed out to nibble a little of it.

The third year grass came up finally, but then of course the Kochia needed to be fought. With all the trouble I had with just a pasture I developed a lot of sympathy for farmers.
 
on post 35
I should have mentioned that lot of South America's forest have been cleared for farming.
In some areas they are trying bring back trees.

When we used ATV to travel some of the western forest , got to see first hand hills with burnt trees still standing.
Other places where clear cut had been carried out.
Some places were replanting ,,others weren't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top