Wow. Abortion is an issue again.

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There are more women than men and the majority of them got punched in the face and thrown backward by this court. I'm ready for them to get up and say oh yeah, and I'm getting up with them. I don't believe that I've ever known a woman who didn't carry a gunny sack full of old hurts, this is a big hurt I think women are going to kick ... this fall and I want to join them.
 
Re-read #42. Thank you, Della. Every means of preventing pregnancy by a woman involves abuse of her body ….either chemical or mechanical.

In my opinion, preventing pregnancy is the total responsibility of the male. The sperm is yours so it’s your job to put it where it does no harm. An unwanted pregnancy - no matter what the outcome - can cause a lifetime of harm to both mother and child.
 
DebraMae said:
We are supposed to have separation of church and state. Something like this should never have come up in a party stance.

I know I have said that about a million times, but dang. I'd better just stop there.
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I only mentioned what the Bible said because in post #5 Fuzzybuddy said "there is nothing in the Bible, which relates to pre-birth. Where we are before birth is never mentioned."

I've never mentioned the Bible in an abortion debate before, but I wanted to answer his remark. Funny how you didn't mind the Bible being mentioned then, only now.

Separation of church and state was meant to protect religious people from a state ruled church like the one In England at the time with the Queen named as the head of the church. Most Christians like that law, it's why lots of the early immigrants came here. It does not and never has meant people can't talk about their religion or use it to help them make decisions.
 
Teacher Terry said...

"It’s not a baby but a clump of cells for months"

I apologize to @rgp

I made a mistake when I was perusing the thread. I'll be more careful next time.
 
chic said:
@Teacher Terry is right. Women are raped. Should they be punished for a lifetime for the crime of their rapist? Girls are molested incestuously. . Should they be punished for a lifetime for the crimes committed by their assailants? This is what we're questioning. Why go backwards to a dark age for women's rights instead of forward?
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Those examples are for sure the most egregious ! And there are others I'm sure. And those should be considered differently, and abortion permitted ...... jmo
 
helenbacque said:
Re-read #42. Thank you, Della. Every means of preventing pregnancy by a woman involves abuse of her body ….either chemical or mechanical.

In my opinion, preventing pregnancy is the total responsibility of the male. The sperm is yours so it’s your job to put it where it does no harm. An unwanted pregnancy - no matter what the outcome - can cause a lifetime of harm to both mother and child.
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"Putting it [elsewhere]" isn't accident-proof. And no, males should not have total responsibility (not when it's consensual, of course). It's a shared activity with shared pleasures, shared consequences, and shared responsibilities.
 
chic said:
I wonder how women feel about that life inside of them when it has been placed there through force and violence???
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That's why rape victims are given the morning after pill. Why would they want to carry his embryo at all?
Sunny said:
The Bible tells the story of how God slew Onan for "spilling his seed" on the ground instead of into the widow of his dead brother, whom he did not want to impregnate. Based on this for centuries the Catholic Church has been against birth control, although I don't know if that's still true any more. But how many women died in childbirth, how many families lived in starvation for centuries because of blind obedience to this ancient scripture?

So, how do the "true believers" feel about that? If the Bible is being invoked as an argument against abortion, how about birth control? In the year 2024, are we still supposed to be guided by what passed for wisdom about 4000 years ago?
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I didn't see anyone using the Bible as an argument against abortion. As far as I read @fuzzybuddy and I are the only ones who mentioned it. I used it as a suggestion (one that matches most scientist's suggestion) of when life begins.

I am not, never have been, and never would have been a Catholic. Neither do I try to follow the ancient laws of Leviticus. I am a Presbyterian, they have been doing same sex marriages since 2014, I believe most of it's members are pro-choice.

I am pro-choice.

I think your blind prejudice against what you call "true believers" might have caused you to miss-read my comments.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Women and girls are raped and often by family members. They die during pregnancy and birth. As my mother used to say if men got pregnant there would be an abortion clinic on every corner just like bars!!

It’s an individual decision and Roe should have never been overturned. Some men like to control women and enslave them and what better way then to control their reproductive rights.
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As you said,control is the ultimate goal, rather than the more noble sounding "pro-life" assertion.
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm confident a total abortion ban will never happen at the federal level. I'm sure it's still viewed as "a power not delegated to the United Sates" but "reserved to the States, and to the people, respectively".
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What does that matter if the justices appointed to decide such things have no respect for the constitution or settled law. Precedent no longer stands for anything. We losing what so many have sacrificed to make possible here.
 
Murmur, this discussion is about an unwanted pregnancy.

The most important decision in a child’s life is the one it’s mother makes about who it’s father will be. She should have complete and absolute control over that decision. A male can father hundreds of children. Nature limits a woman to a certain number as well as productive timespan. She deserves the right to choose who and when she brings a child into the world.
 
chic said:
A total abortion ban is being discussed for the U.S. with NO exemptions for rape or incest.

What do you think? :unsure:
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What do I think? I think I find that statement hard to believe. Please provide a plausible link from an authentic source, not just an acuser. BTW, please avoid politics.
 
chic said:
A total abortion ban is being discussed for the U.S. with NO exemptions for rape or incest. I am so grateful that I was born way back when I was born because girls were allowed the freedom to choose whether they were ready to parent or not by the time I reached maturity. The difficulty women will face going forward is mind numbing. How do you feel about this? I understand some people believe their religion frowns upon abortion. That's fine. Your behavior and choices are yours but why must they be forced upon others? I think it's better when people are as free as possible in life. Also to consider, women outnumber men in the U.S. Is it wise to anger such a large segment of the population?

What do you think? :unsure:
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Abortion is only one of the issues concerning women's freedom. I won't dwell on it but check out Project 2025 and make your own decisions.
 
Della said:
Men and women used to rant that they'd like to see some knuckle dragging politician try to tell them whether or not they could send their six year old down the mine, or beat their five year old with sticks. But our government made laws to protect those children. The parents didn't get to claim that they were poor or that they weren't ready to have children

I believe women should have rights over their own body, but when they're sharing that body with another person -- then that person has rights, too. Parents do have rights over their children, but our laws say they aren't allowed to kill them.

The Bible speaks of babies, "leaping in the womb," and "quickening," and implies that is when life begins. Not surprisingly, most doctors agree that women usually feel this movement by about 24 weeks, the time when doctors say the fetus is able to live outside the uterus.

I'm not okay with abortions this late in gestation.

Young women talk a lot about their right to control their own bodies. If they would only actually do that, abortion would be a very rare thing.

Birth control should have made abortion something used for rare medical conditions and the 1/1000 cases where birth control failed. Women can choose methods that are effective 999 times out of 1000.
Some of these methods can be taken care of in one doctor, or free clinic, visit and they're safe from pregnancy for three years. It would take them almost all the way through college.

Women can use most of these methods in the sober light of day.

Young men have condoms. Period. Unless you're talking permanent sterilization which I'm not considering for either sex. The men have to use this method at the last minute when they may be under the influence of drink or drugs and possibly in a dark room. It's not very effective.

Some types of birth control for women:
  • implants.
  • intrauterine devices (IUDs)
  • injections.
  • oral contraceptive pills (combined pill and progestogen only pill)
  • ******l rings.
  • barrier methods (external and internal condoms, diaphragms)
  • morning after pills
  • rape victims are always offered pills as part of the rape kit.
I think we should talk less about abortion, and "those awful men" and more about a young woman's responsibility to control her own body's reproduction through birth control.
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But what if birth control is the next thing on the list of things to be banned?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
BTW, there is nothing in the Bible, which relates to pre-birth. Where we are before birth is never mentioned.
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"Science" wasn't mentioned in the Bible either...that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And whoever is cryptically posting P*******l instead of Political. Really? You think members and Matrix can't figure that one out?
 
helenbacque said:
Murmur, this discussion is about an unwanted pregnancy.

The most important decision in a child’s life is the one it’s mother makes about who it’s father will be. She should have complete and absolute control over that decision. A male can father hundreds of children. Nature limits a woman to a certain number as well as productive timespan. She deserves the right to choose who and when she brings a child into the world.
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Well said.
 
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