More people just don't want kids.

Some places have always been too expensive for the average person to live and get ahead. These are usually desirable places with great weather.

I have lived in 5 states because of either mine or one of my husband’s careers. You move to where the jobs are and where you can afford a house if that’s important for you. Sometimes you have to make hard choices.
 

dilettante said:
Not that it is any of your business or has any impact on the discussion, but yes I have 3 kids.

Why so many personal attacks in this thread? Even the simping beta males are barking like little dogs under your skirts. Sheesh.
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It’s relevant when you are calling people who don’t have children selfish. I have 3 kids but I don’t hold the same views as you.

None of my kids have children and I am happy they are living the life they want just as I did. My oldest son and his wife are world travelers and have been to so many different countries. This wouldn’t be possible if they had children.

Younger people are making conscious choices about what they want not just mindlessly popping out kids. That’s a good thing.
 

officerripley said:
Not everyone can just move like that; sometimes you have family members (elderly or soon-to-be-elderly parents, grandparents, siblings who need your help etc.) or other situations that make it either impossible or difficult to just move. And I keep hearing that, especially on this site for one, nobody wants people from other states (especially California) moving into “their” state.
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And sometimes there is attachment to the state. They think, “I grew up here, this is my home, why can’t I stay here?” Is that thinking justified especially when CA is very guilty of Open Borders?

IDK. I really don’t know - is it justified to push an American citizen out of their home state because state politicians have an Open Door Policy to immigrants?

Legally speaking, it’s obvious most politicians, again, from both parties, don’t give a flying fart about this issue. They care so little about the PEOPLE hurt by this Open Door Theology that they talk, talk, talk about reform, but they also see it as a tennis ball. They play tennis with actual legal reforms and never really pass much legislation.

Globalism is great for those with plenty of money and who can move wherever they want to.

Globalism really sucks for the poor who are trapped financially in one area. Or trapped simply by their inability to afford job training, or inability to train for all the high-demand jobs. Do you want a nurse who only got Cs and Ds in Nursing School or do you want the ones who got the As?

Another thought: is it FAIR to charge people $30,000 to $100,000 for a graduate degree when they already have student debt from their bachelor degree? Is is FAIR to charge such high proces to allow people to get the degrees they need just to enter the middle class?

We all know this is how the economy works now, but geez, hardly anyone besides a Vermont politician complains in public about how UNJUST that may be.

Then we wring our old hands about why these young people burdened with $30,000 to $200,000 in student debt don’t want to have kids.
It’s not their fault.

Our very bad college system was built up to be a greedy machine over the past 30-40 years. Now it needs to be un-built. That is not easy to do.

I don’t understand when some people are surprised when GREED doesn’t result in good outcomes for all. When did greed ever do that?
 
hollydolly said:
I shouldn't answer for anyone else but I remember dillettante showing a picture of his sons...
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dilletante is just a username to me, I don't know why but for some reason I had presumed dilletante to be a woman. I guessed that after reading some of the comments in this thread.
Ya get that...
 
I'm glad you have children, @dilettante. Truthfully, I wish I had more than one, though I've been blessed with a great one. Raising him was the best 'job' of my life. I will never regret having him. Through him I am a grandma. I love my grandson so much.

My son/grandson are everything to me. I'm happy for you that you are a dad.
 
I never said that everyone should have children. It's just that we face a population crisis as a race, on every continent on Earth, and after much study all demographers point the finger at too many childless women. Parent couples are always better of course.

This has never been seen in history, and the curve started falling with the normalization of abortion and wholesale birth control. There is no way around that stark fact.

Ideally people should have incentives because of the financial burden of children in the cities. Maybe a significant tax credit, increasing for the 1st 3 children the citizen or legal immigrant taxpayer supports and becoming permanent as each child survives to 18 years of age. Fund this in part by far higher income tax brackets. At the same time get serious about quality schools and adequate funding for them.

This leaves people with their choices, but it also provides incentives to help reverse the self-extinction trend.
 
dilettante said:
I never said that everyone should have children. It's just that we face a population crisis as a race, on every continent on Earth, and after much study all demographers point the finger at too many childless women. Parent couples are always better of course.

This has never been seen in history, and the curve started falling with the normalization of abortion and wholesale birth control. There is no way around that stark fact.

Ideally people should have incentives because of the financial burden of children in the cities. Maybe a significant tax credit, increasing for the 1st 3 children the citizen or legal immigrant taxpayer supports and becoming permanent as each child survives to 18 years of age. Fund this in part by far higher income tax brackets. At the same time get serious about quality schools and adequate funding for them.

This leaves people with their choices, but it also provides incentives to help reverse the self-extinction trend.
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see... this might be only a thing that's not happening in the US...because in Europe and here in the UK people are given substantial Tax credits for having children... and on top of that they are given weekly child benefits, and many other benefits... including free school meals, free milk under the age of 5...,.. £500 for every pregnancies to buy baby clothes etc.. usually spent on a pram...

Loads of incentives to have children in this country, so we now find ourselves in a position where many people continue to have children and collect Dole money in preference to going to work...
 
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hollydolly said:
see... this might be only a thing that's not happening in the US...because in Europe and here in the UK people are given substantial Tax credits for having children... and on top of that they are given weekly child benefits, and many other benefits... including free school meals, free milk under the age of 5...,.. £500 for every pregnancies to buy baby clothes etc.. usually sent on a pram...

Loads of incentives to have children in this country, so we now find ourselves in a position where many people continue to have children and collect Dole money in preference to going to work...
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That's the problem. Israel is facing the same thing on steroids with a sect that doesn't serve in the military and I guess lives on the dole and breeds like rats. They also support their nation's regional belligerence.

So I'm glad you caught that: the idyllic socialism just doesn't work.

Unless we're willing to selfishly dance in the sun like the grasshopper until winter comes and ends us all... we face some hard choices.
 
dilettante said:
That's the problem. Israel is facing the same thing on steroids with a sect that doesn't serve in the military and I guess lives on the dole and breeds like rats. They also support their nation's regional belligerence.

So I'm glad you caught that: the idyllic socialism just doesn't work.

Unless we're willing to selfishly dance in the sun like the grasshopper until winter comes and ends us all... we face some hard choices.
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Sadly can't discuss this Political hot potato... any more on here
 
WhatInThe said:
i've seen theories that one's childhood is a huge factor. They also say some to try to avoid what they experienced when they have children. Others perpetuate a vicious cycle in some cases.
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My brother is continuing the cycle of abuse. He says his kids don't like him like I'm supposed to feal sorry for him. They don't like him because he's verbally abusive. If he talks to them how he does to me, I wish they would go no contact. He's a product of the house we grew up in but it's never an excuse to abuse.
 
Trish said:
@Radrook This is what I posted and which you responded to. ☝️



I have not read all the previous posts but, looking back in an attempt to understand why you reacted to my post with links and a video regarding incest, I noticed this post above my original post, which does refer to having a child being a human right etc.

👇



I think it looks as if you are responding to the wrong poster.
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Yes it does seem that way. My sincerest apologies! I will be more careful next time.
 
Remy said:
Pepper, see post #18 in this thread.
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You mean "So many convenient excuses for being selfish!"

I don't understand why selfish fits when one chooses not to have children, for any reason. Why is it selfish? It's not. We are not obligated to reproduce. So, Remy, why is it selfish? Do you know?
 
Pepper said:
You mean "So many convenient excuses for being selfish!"

I don't understand why selfish fits when one chooses not to have children, for any reason. Why is it selfish? It's not. We are not obligated to reproduce. So, Remy, why is it selfish? Do you know?
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I just said that is response to that post. They are saying not having kids is selfish. I guess they should be the ones to explain it.
 
Teacher Terry said:
It’s relevant when you are calling people who don’t have children selfish. I have 3 kids but I don’t hold the same views as you.

None of my kids have children and I am happy they are living the life they want just as I did. My oldest son and his wife are world travelers and have been to so many different countries. This wouldn’t be possible if they had children.

Younger people are making conscious choices about what they want not just mindlessly popping out kids. That’s a good thing.
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Popping out kids? Reminds me of these two Pentecostal females who were always simultaneously pregnant and would enthusiastically stand conversing on the housing projects balcony almost belly to belly year after seemingly interminable year. .
 
Remy said:
My brother is continuing the cycle of abuse. He says his kids don't like him like I'm supposed to feal sorry for him. They don't like him because he's verbally abusive. If he talks to them how he does to me, I wish they would go no contact. He's a product of the house we grew up in but it's never an excuse to abuse.
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Nature uses evolution, treating one kids they way they were treated especially if poor is not evolving. As much as any race needs to reproduce they also must evolve in someway to pass it on to future generation even if wisdom from experience is the only thing one contributes.
 
dilettante said:
I never said that everyone should have children. It's just that we face a population crisis as a race

This leaves people with their choices, but it also provides incentives to help reverse the self-extinction trend.
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You did say not having children was selfish.

Not sure what population crisis you mean - the world is over populated with humans, we are hardly on self extinction trend.
 
Remy said:
My brother is continuing the cycle of abuse. He says his kids don't like him like I'm supposed to feal sorry for him. They don't like him because he's verbally abusive. If he talks to them how he does to me, I wish they would go no contact. He's a product of the house we grew up in but it's never an excuse to abuse.
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A product of his childhood? That made me wonder how much our own upbringing impacts on our decisions later in life. My own childhood was more or less in two parts. With and without mother. In the nine years that mother was the centre of our world all was everything a child could wish for, peace, love and harmony.

Then mother contracted tuberculosis and was dead within three months. Life without her was tough, it must have been tougher still for father. We survived, but going back to the impact on our decisions, mother's absence must have some bearing in that her four children produced just two. Her two eldest have none, the two youngest one apiece. It's just an observation, but I knew what my future would be, I had my vasectomy very young.
 
About fifty years ago my then husband and I were out with another couple. We both had baby boys at that time. They asked when we were going to "give him a little brother or sister?" We said we probably weren't going to have another. They were shocked and said we were being selfish and then proceeded to say, "If you don't have a girl, who's going to take care of you when you're old?" Which seemed like the most selfish reason to have a child that I ever heard. Babies shouldn't be born with jobs already lined up.

One of my brothers would have loved to have had children, but his wife is infertile and, being a nurse practitioner, she knew what a long expensive ordeal IVF was and what a high percentage of failure and disappointment it carried.

My other brother never wanted children because he didn't want to spend money on another person or be tied down or have to get up in the middle of the night to feed something. He can't fathom having a dog either, for similar reasons. He is selfish! Thank goodness he's aware of that and didn't bring a child into the world and then make it feel guilty for every penny it cost the way our father did.

My son can't have children so our line stops here. Nobody cares about the line, but he would have loved to have a child.
 
Plus it’s beginning to look like there are plenty of people here in the U.S. (some in power) who think IVF should be outlawed and are working to make that happen. (I don’t think it should be outlawed but I can also understand why some would not choose to try it since as pointed out above it’s an expensive ordeal.)
 

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