Why do we believe in God

Using a word like "mind" when referring to God is meaningless. A thinking mind is a human characteristic. If there is some divine entity "in charge" of it all, you can be sure that it is not a he or she, (Jeez, even some human beings do not want to be called he or she any more), and does not have human emotions, thoughts, motivations, the need for "love" or worship, or any other stuff of traditional religions.

So, asking me why I believe in God is meaningless. It would make more sense to ask if I believe there is some ultimate meaning in the universe that we cannot understand. That question might make more sense.
 

"Why do we believe in God?" Why not?
It's free, comes with amazing benefits,
and we don't have to work for it
because His super cool Son paid for it.
God is our Father (fatherless are not alone)

Friendless? His Son is the most trusted friend
And knows what's best for us, what we need,
what we don't need, and when we need it,
All just for the asking🙏 Just for believing.
He never leaves our side when we believe.

If no one loves us, well now someone does.
We'll never be alone again.
"Why do we believe in God?" Why not?
It's free, comes with amazing benefits,
and we don't have to work for it
because His super cool Son paid for it.
God is our Father (fatherless are not alone)

Friendless? His Son is the most trusted friend
And knows what's best for us, what we need,
what we don't need, and when we need it,
All just for the asking🙏 Just for believing.
He never leaves our side when we believe.

If no one loves us, well now someone does.
We'll never be alone again.
I have never heard any Christian provide those reasons for believing in a creator before. What I have heard is the acknowledgment that the universe itself provides compelling evidence of a creator. That is the very crucial foundation. Without it, all the other beliefs you mention would be impossible.
 
Mark, interesting comments...tell us your source, as your comments suggest you have some special insight?

I have no received knowledge about God just an opinion based on my lived experience and my reading. I reject all statements about God which claim to be exclusively authoritative. But the truth about God cannot be contained by words. All they can do is point to something that cannot be seen, measured or tested. If you believe that is enough.
 

Using a word like "mind" when referring to God is meaningless. A thinking mind is a human characteristic. If there is some divine entity "in charge" of it all, you can be sure that it is not a he or she, (Jeez, even some human beings do not want to be called he or she any more), and does not have human emotions, thoughts, motivations, the need for "love" or worship, or any other stuff of traditional religions.

So, asking me why I believe in God is meaningless. It would make more sense to ask if I believe there is some ultimate meaning in the universe that we cannot understand. That question might make more sense.
The how do you explain the presence of a DNA code in living things? Water did it?

Worshipping Water as a god? | Varietygalore
 
Radrook said....I have never heard any Christian provide those reasons for believing in a creator before. What I have heard is the acknowledgment that the universe itself provides compelling evidence of a creator. That is the very crucial foundation. Without it, all the other beliefs you mention would be impossible.
****************************************************

My answer....I'm happy to hear that I posted reasons you haven't heard of before. I've been quite active in "religious" threads here since 2015 and most have heard more from me than they care to😇. So make no mistake about me mentioning God's creations as evidence in numerous past posts and on many biblically based subjects.

But that doesn't make my post today wrong....just intentionally lacking in being all inclusive of why WE believe in God. I posted a lighter take that I hoped would be more palpable for some. I'm always aware and respectful of those who find "religious" discussions cringeworthy, yet finding a balance that is also true to who I am and what I believe when asked. I've never started a "religious thread" but often join in the discussions.
Happy to know that you are not attempting to make believers in a creator appear silly or irrational and are a believer in a creator yourself. :)
 
Using a word like "mind" when referring to God is meaningless. A thinking mind is a human characteristic. If there is some divine entity "in charge" of it all, you can be sure that it is not a he or she, (Jeez, even some human beings do not want to be called he or she any more), and does not have human emotions, thoughts, motivations, the need for "love" or worship, or any other stuff of traditional religions.

So, asking me why I believe in God is meaningless. It would make more sense to ask if I believe there is some ultimate meaning in the universe that we cannot understand. That question might make more sense.
So a nonhuman extraterrestrial cannot have a thinking mind nor experience hatred, love, envy, fear, etc.? Strange concept!
 
I never did that. Instead, I clarified a misunderstanding about what the Bible teaches. So you have created straw man which constitutes fallacious reasoning.

I'm not buying it. Since I did not refer to you directly, how can you know that I was even referring to you? In fact, I was commenting on a wide spread phenomenon of Christian debate; Defending the Bible by quoting the Bible.

But more importantly, have I misinterpreted those specific Biblical passages that defend faith in accepting a logically indefensible position such as an idiosyncratic belief in "the existence of a planning mind as displayed in DNA," whatever that is supposed to mean? I don't even care what those passages say.
 
Happy to know that you are not attempting to make believers in a creator appear silly or irrational and are a believer in a creator yourself. :)
I appeared that way?? Yikes! That's so off track. If anyone else saw it that way please send me a Conversation to let me know. If anyone agrees with Radrook I will report my post myself so it will be removed. Thank you for this opportunity to clear any misunderstanding. I would never try to make "believers look silly or irrational".
 
The how do you explain the presence of a DNA code in living things? Water did it?

Worshipping Water as a god? | Varietygalore

I don’t think you do explain it. No one can. It is a wonder which should give us pause if it is something we ever could explain. But saying God engineered it explains nothing if you can’t explain God, and you can’t. Even God doesn’t try to explain Himself. “I am that I am” is a clue to stop thinking we can explain everything. But pointing to what we can never explain explains nothing.
 
I don’t think you do explain it. No one can. It is a wonder which should give us pause if it is something we ever could explain. But saying God engineered it explains nothing if you can’t explain God, and you can’t. Even God doesn’t try to explain Himself. “I am that I am” is a lie to stop thinking we can explain everything. But pointing to what we can never explain explains nothing.
A similar code to DNA arriving at SETI from outer space would immediately be considered a product of a mind. If I said otherwise, I would be considered rather strange or else suspected of having very personal ulterior motives. BTW The term I am that I am has a meaning.

What God Means by "I AM WHO I AM" in Exodus 3:14
 
I'm not buying it. Since I did not refer to you directly, how can you know that I was even referring to you? In fact, I was commenting on a wide spread phenomenon of Christian debate; Defending the Bible by quoting the Bible.

But more importantly, have I misinterpreted those specific Biblical passages that defend faith in accepting a logically indefensible position such as an idiosyncratic belief in "the existence of a planning mind as displayed in DNA," whatever that is supposed to mean? I don't even care what those passages say.
My apologies for assuming that I am included in that reference but since I am the only one quoting scripture on this thread I think that my assumption is understandable.

BTW Coded information never codes itself. So your assumption goes completely contrary to all available observations.
 
A similar code to DNA arriving at SETI from outer space would immediately be considered a product of a mind. If I said otherwise, I would be considered rather strange or else suspected of having very personal ulterior motives. BTW The term I am that I am has a meaning.

What God Means by "I AM WHO I AM" in Exodus 3:14

You speak necessarily and exclusively for yourself. I don't argue with young earther's. Think what you like.
 
BTW Coded information never codes itself. So your assumption goes completely contrary to all available observations.
I don't know what assumption I made that you refer to. By the way, Ken Ham doesn't understand what he's talking about. He understands what he wants you to believe, but he would flunk the chapter test on DNA chemistry in basic biology.
 
I don't know what assumption I made that you refer to. By the way, Ken Ham doesn't understand what he's talking about. He understands what he wants you to believe, but he would flunk the chapter test on DNA chemistry in basic biology.
That's called ad Hominem, a part of fallacious reasoning characterized by attacking the person and ignoring the validity of a person's argument as if it were irrelevant, which of course, it definitely isn't.

Ham earned a bachelor's degree in applied science (with an emphasis on environmental biology) from the Queensland Institute of Technology and holds a Diploma in Education from the University of Queensland.[
Ken Ham - Wikipedia

So he is definitely educated enough to be able to easily detect quackery disguised as science when he sees it.
 
Last edited:
I do think we should avoid this discussion if we can’t remain civil and friendly. I’d hate to lose the ability to have a friendly discussion on religion as we have with politics. But if people embrace being nasty to each other I could see it going that way.
 
That's called ad Hominem, a part of fallacious reasoning characterized by attacking the person and ignoring the validity of a person's argument as if it were irrelevant, which of course, it definitely isn't.


You are being scammed, intellectually scammed. Ham is using an equivocation of the word language, to peddle fallacy. (you like talking about logical fallacies, right?) Creationists twisting science to support debunked Bible versions of what they want the world to be, goes back to their meddling with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Their misinterpretations are most likely intentional and then passed on to the flock. Or maybe they really don't understand. I think it's deceit. They need science to sound official, but then they present their creationist spin that twists what science shows to support their Biblical beliefs. If Ham asks you to send him money, don't do it, or send him money. I don't care.

Ad hominem - WikipediaBTWHam earned a bachelor's degree in applied science (with an emphasis on environmental biology) from the Queensland Institute of Technology and holds a Diploma in Education from the University of Queensland.[Ken Ham - Wikipedia So he is definitely educated enough to be able to easily detect quackery disguised as science when he sees it

...or educated enough to cleverly fashion his own quackery for his internet following. Here's a video that debunks Ham's DNA nonsense:

It's more complicated than it needs to be, but there are too many of these out there for me to review all of them to find the one that's the most easily understood. One thing it does early on is to create a simple syllogism to test the validity of Ham's DNA language argument. Spoiler alert: the flaw in his argument is not a non sequitur or so they claim that the syllogism does follow logically. (you like talking about logical fallacies, right?)The flaw is in the equivocated premise, but that isn't explained until near the end of the video. Personally, I see a non sequitur:

DNA is a language
Intelligent entities use language
<-
Therefore, DNA is intelligently designed

But the video may parse Ham's argument more accurately than I do, and their syllogism is different. Garbage in, garbage out.

the vast majority of people on Earth believe in a creator.


Fallacy of numbers: Wiki​
 
Last edited:
I am sure there is no God and no Jesus Christ. We simply live and then CEASE to exist.

However, I still play Jesus music on my Amazon Echos many hours per day because hearing about Jesus and His miracles gives me hope that He will not let me suffer too much but will take me to Heaven when appropriate.
I agree with the first part. But our conscious mind does not vanish into 'nowhere', since it reincarnates in a new body.
 
You may not be but then why would you quote Ken Ham?

Anyway even if you are that is none of my business. If it makes sense to you keep it.
Please note that I don't need to be a Young Earther to understand inconsistency of policy when it is pointed out.
You are being scammed, intellectually scammed. Ham is using an equivocation of the word language, to peddle fallacy. (you like talking about logical fallacies, right?) Creationists twisting science to support debunked Bible versions of what they want the world to be, goes back to their meddling with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Their misinterpretations are most likely intentional and then passed on to the flock. Or maybe they really don't understand. I think it's deceit. They need science to sound official, but then they present their creationist spin that twists what science shows to support their Biblical beliefs. If Ham asks you to send him money, don't do it, or send him money. I don't care.

...or educated enough to cleverly fashion his own quackery for his internet following. Here's a video that debunks Ham's DNA nonsense:

It's more complicated than it needs to be, but there are too many of these out there for me to review all of them to find the one that's the most easily understood. One thing it does early on is to create a simple syllogism to test the validity of Ham's DNA language argument. Spoiler alert: the flaw in his argument is not a non sequitur or so they claim that the syllogism does follow logically. (you like talking about logical fallacies, right?)The flaw is in the equivocated premise, but that isn't explained until near the end of the video. Personally, I see a non sequitur:

DNA is a language
Intelligent entities use language
<-
Therefore, DNA is intelligently designed

But the video may parse Ham's argument more accurately than I do, and their syllogism is different. Garbage in, garbage out.


Fallacy of numbers: Wiki​

First, about your claim that I am appealing to numbers, that is once more a straw man since I am not using the preponderance of numbers to validate the existence of a creator. As I have repeatedly pointed out, it is the existence of DNA itself that offer the compelling evidence not the mere number of those who believe in creator. So once again you create a straw man. The only reason I mentioned numbers is because I was accused of only speaking for myself and not on behalf of others. Please pay attention to what I am really saying. Thanks!

Furthermore, the video is irrelevant to the issues that Ham mentions about inconsistent claims that these scientists are making. In short, you are evading the issue that Ken mentioned once again. In the video, I posted, Ken is logically pointing out the blatant inconsistency of policy in the claims of these atheists concerning their ability to prove abiogenesis. Are you saying that they are not contradicting themselves repeatedly?
https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Philosophy/Logical_Reasoning_(Dowden)/09:_Consistency_and_Inconsistency/9.01:_Recognizing_Inconsistency_and_Contradiction

As yet, you have not proven that he is wrong in those claims. Instead you are now once again moving the goalpost to evade the issue just as you did by previously providing an ad hominem response.
https://www.snopes.com/articles/464308/logical-fallacies-and-moving-goalposts/

You also claim a non sequiter. Yet you fail to provide any explanation for seeing a non sequiter. In short, anyone can claim to see a non sequiter about anything whatsoever. Proving the non sequiter is the hard part. Isn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy

Furthermore, the video you offer doesn't refute the DNA as a language proceeding from a mind conclusion. Neither was that what was referred to in the video I posted. So again, your response is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Which is once again the moving of the goalpost fallacy. Also, there are biologists who do acknowledge DNA as a language and who believe that it proves creator. So this isn't merely an educated vs the uneducated or undereducated issue.

Additionally, it isn't merely complexity that we claim indicates a mind, as the narrator is cunningly saying. Instead, it is the manner in which the complexity is arranged that is compelling. So the narrator is once more glibly misrepresenting the issue.

Furthermore, the narrator mentions that atheist scientists are in the majority. That is a fallacy of appeal numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

He also brings Jesus into the issue, when Jesus has nothing to do with this subject.
That is resorting to mockery. Yet another fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule

He claims that the material involved in the DNA code disqualifies the evidence, which of course it doesn't since material is irrelevant to the arrangement that indicates language. Neither do signals disqualify themselves from being arranged into a coded language simply because they are signals as the narrator once again nonsensically claims.

The narrator also assumes that evolution can produce language, when evolution itself is described as being dependent on DNA language to come into existence. This is the chicken vs. the Egg conundrum.

In short, the narrator keeps making very serious illogical mistakes in a desperate effort to justify his illogical conclusions which strongly indicates that he is motivated by theophobia.

BTW Here is the correct way:

DNA is a language

Language arises only from a mind

DNA is the product of a mind.

Would you elaborate on your accusation please.
Second Law of Thermodynamics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
 
Last edited:

Back
Top