Why do we believe in God

rbtvgo said:
All good points. So thank you. A bible study for non believers would be a waste of time.
All I know as I was very young I would talk to him. Family wasn't religious. No one went to church. When I was older they would drop me off in front of a church and I went in. They told me that I needed to go in. That's it. When it was done I walked home. I always remembered, however that I felt good.

Since then my faith has been based on knowing that God was looking out for me. It was much further that I actually started to read the Bible. Much like everyone else I doubted what I read. Yet I couldn't refute his words. He would put thoughts in my head. Questions, statements that I would look up in the Bible and confirm and I would reply in thoughts. It has been this way ever since. A full life, year in Vietnam, two children, marriage of 54 years. I still feel the same. I still believe the same.

I don't quote the Bible for the same reason that for non believers, a bible quote is a waste of time.
This was from the heart, by the way.
Have a good day
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And this is why I don't criticize people for their faith. I accept I may be wrong, but I also know that I'm following my own path, and as such, you and I don't agree. I don't spend my life trying to disprove a God. You are entitled to explain your own journey, to have your own conclusions. Whatever results in your having a happy life, it likely the best choice.

Besides, I could pass away tomorrow and be faced with rejection from your God. Neither of us can offer absolute proof. All I can say is, I looked, I waited, and nothing came to me.
 

I don't know what you did to the format of your post, but whatever it was it prevents quoting from working (hence there is none here).

You wrote: "That solitary example does not prove the claim that all former converts to theism were formerly atheists"

All? ALL? I think, personally, that answering for all is a preposterous idea. There are many reasons for something to believe, not believe. The idea that any single reason could be espoused is silly, imo.

You wrote: "he universe shows evidence of being a holograph-being created by someone."

How does it do this? I do not see this. You assert it as though it's irrefutable fact - yet to me it seems fanciful. People tell me how you support such an assertion, and why other ideas are unlikely.

You wrote: The logic of detecting a mind in coded information is self-evident since very obviously Information does not code itself. Coded information is always traceable to a coding intellect.

But it doesn't What codes are you using as an example? If you're talking human made codes, then it's fallacious to assume there must be a God, because God is not human - is he? Besides, DNA codes itself every single time there is a birth. Exact copies are never made, there is always a re-coding. This is how evolution works.

You wrote: " Pushing the problem back to the RNA molecule doesn't resolve the glaring fundamental flaw in your reasoning. It only transfers your claim to another location while leaving the horrendously logical flaw intact. Furthermore and very significantly, your RNA excuse has now been dumped by scientists."

Transfers to another location? You mean like you saying it's a God? Isn't that transferring also? If not, why not? As for some scientists thinking differently, that's normal. You can't say it's been "dumped by scientists", as though "scientists" is a single group of people who hold sway over ideas. It's simply not how science works. It's not real-world. There are scientists who believe in a God. And? I've stated it before - but consensus in science offers the best explanation given the evidence we have. If the evidence changes, the conclusion changes. Hence the quest for evidence.

You say: No forgetfulness nor ignoring. I don't believe Earth has been around only 6000 years. I simply don't agree with your mathematical assessment.

It's simply probability. The math doesn't lie, but it's probability, not fact. As for the age of the world, I'm happy to see that even you disagree with the age of the Earth when it comes to biblical accounts.

You write: "Any equation based on abiogenesis is defective by default because it is based on nothing more than wishful thinking, and goes completely contrary to how things are observed to function. You see, observation tells us that life always emerges from previous life. It never emerges spontaneously from non life."

Well, we have proof - us. All life on planet Earth. Your argument is akin to saying, "we've not seen the big bang, therefore the big bang cannot happen". Which doesn't, somehow, relate to "I've never seen a God, therefore......" They are making progress in working out the various interactions that could bring about life. We don't have all the answers today, but that's not a reason to throw in the towel on an idea with no evidential foundation whatsoever.

You wrote: A belief earns the appellation of fanatical if it totally ignores logic which your abiogenesis idea does par excellence as the scientist speaking in this video below poignantly proves.

Hm, so it's not fanatical to believe in a God? Again you use the word "logic", but to be honest, I don't think you and I will ever reach agreement on what logic really is. You use the word a lot, and every time you do I find your comment illogical. A scientist in a video means.... not much. I mean, I could post links to papers and videos of scientists talking about the building blocks of life, but it would be pretty boring for everyone else.
 
bobcat said:
Making claims and assertions in this thread without any proof is simply a pooling of ignorance, unless it is made clear that it is only an opinion or belief, and nothing more.
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Whatever it may be which "God/gods" refers to isn't amenable to proof or authoritative sources. So speculation is certainly about something we are largely and necessarily ignorant about. Goes with the territory. But if people want to share their take on it nonetheless I don't see the harm. People with other interests certainly can start other threads.

bobcat said:
Furthermore, quoting the Bible as God's word (Or inspired) without any evidence to support it's authenticity as such, is tantamount to a specious and illogical argument. JMO
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I don't believe scriptures from any of the world's traditional religions have any obligation to demonstrate the authenticity of their mythos. That is simply to misunderstand what myths are. They evolve organically over long stretches of time because they evoke a sense of purpose and meaning. These aren't rationally deduced values based on utility or abstract conceptions of the good. They are the stories which resonated in people's hearts and brought meaning to their lives.

That those mythos get cashed out into official doctrines which are argued about in ways which diminish them is too bad. But that doesn't mean they don't still have the capacity to resonate with people and elevate their life satisfaction. This is my unsupported claim which is justified for those with whom it resonates and nonsense to those who can only think rationally about life.

As for me, I've been away from this thread for a while and find it impossible to catch up in that it takes off in so many directions. But I wish those still engaged a good time.
 

MarkD said:
Whatever it may be which "God/gods" refers to isn't amenable to proof or authoritative sources. So speculation is certainly about something we are largely and necessarily ignorant about. Goes with the territory. But if people want to share their take on it nonetheless I don't see the harm. People with other interests certainly can start other threads.



I don't believe scriptures from any of the world's traditional religions have any obligation to demonstrate the authenticity of their mythos. That is simply to misunderstand what myths are. They evolve organically over long stretches of time because they evoke a sense of purpose and meaning. These aren't rationally deduced values based on utility or abstract conceptions of the good. They are the stories which resonated in people's hearts and brought meaning to their lives.

That those mythos get cashed out into official doctrines which are argued about in ways which diminish them is too bad. But that doesn't mean they don't still have the capacity to resonate with people and elevate their life satisfaction. This is my unsupported claim which is justified for those with whom it resonates and nonsense to those who can only think rationally about life.

As for me, I've been away from this thread for a while and find it impossible to catch up in that it takes off in so many directions. But I wish those still engaged a good time.
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It seems you are misunderstanding what I said. A person can believe whatever they wish, and it can have a rich tradition in their circles, and they can live by it's standards. I have absolutely no issue with any of that, as long as it's understood that it's merely a belief. However, If they are making claims that it is God's word, or inspired by God, but they have no evidence to properly validate that claim or assertion, then it is by definition a specious and illogical claim or argument. My opinion hasn't changed on that statement.

If someone claims we have no free will, and offers no proof, and someone else claims they are wrong, and they have no proof to the contrary, then it seems like a pointless debate to me. However, if you preface it by saying I believe (Or don't believe), then no proof is necessary. It's just a belief.
 
bobcat said:
It seems you are misunderstanding what I said. A person can believe whatever they wish, and it can have a rich tradition in their circles, and they can live by it's standards. I have absolutely no issue with any of that, as long as it's understood that it's merely a belief. However, If they are making claims that it is God's word, or inspired by God, but they have no evidence to properly validate that claim or assertion, then it is by definition a specious and illogical claim or argument. My opinion hasn't changed on that statement.

If someone claims we have no free will, and offers no proof, and someone else claims they are wrong, and they have no proof to the contrary, then it seems like a pointless debate to me. However, if you preface it by saying I believe (Or don't believe), then no proof is necessary. It's just a belief.
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Looks like I did, mea culpa. I do think anyone who wants to seriously discuss such things with a wider audience needs to come to it with a recognition that we are all on the same plane. No one is entitled take an authoritative stance just because a book seems to support what they say. As you say, that only works within the choir room with those who place the book on the same highest pedestal.

However in a setting like this everyone is welcome to speak their truth in whatever manner they choose. So then it might just be that we can't truly have a serious discussion in such a setting. It was interesting to get a sense of the variety of positions held here but I am no longer actively monitoring this thread and haven't for a while.
 
Grace4 said:
"Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view and demand that they respect yours." ~Tecumseh
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Trouble no one? We are told that the demons felt troubled when they heard Jesus speak. Also, the Aztecs felt troubled when told that their human sacrifices after ripping out their hearts in cold blood, were wrong. The Canaanites felt troubled when told not to sacrifice their babies to Moloch by hurling them alive into a furnace.

Moloch, The Ancient Pagan God Of Child Sacrifice That Demanded Its Offerings Be Burned Alive

In short, all beliefs don't deserve the same respect, especially when they involve victimization of the weak.
Did the belief that Hitler being protected by God deserve to be respectfully left unchallenged?
In such cases speaking out becomes a moral duty and remaining silent a moral flaw.​
 
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"Why do we believe in God" was not an unreasonable starter for discussion, and there are lots of answers to that specific question. Some will conflict, and some will offend. Alliances will form. Members will digress. Other's will coalesce, and divisions will materialize because people will defend issues that cannot be known more vigorously than positions that have testable answers. There may even be some truths, but not because someone has some inside scoop on the unknowable. Beliefs about the unknown that may be true in the end can only be lucky guesses.
 
I worship TWO Gods: Jesus Christ and MARS, the God of War. War is the major preoccupation of mankind so Mars is really our main God. Jesus Christ has been the subject of many Christian songs and I thank him for all that great music.
 
JustDave said:
"Why do we believe in God" was not an unreasonable starter for discussion, and there are lots of answers to that specific question. Some will conflict, and some will offend. Alliances will form. Members will digress. Other's will coalesce, and divisions will materialize because people will defend issues that cannot be known more vigorously than positions that have testable answers. There may even be some truths, but not because someone has some inside scoop on the unknowable. Beliefs about the unknown that may be true in the end can only be lucky guesses.
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There is no inside scoop. You believe or you do not believe. Pretty simple.
Faith is all that is required. You achieve faith based on your life experiences and your understanding of what took place and what could have took place. It leaves you with a question. Everyone knows the odds in the lottery. Strange how the odds in Gods responses to our issues defy the math in buying a lottery ticket. ????????????
 
Radrook said:
You cannot use inconsistency of policy and expect rational people to accept atheistic explanations.
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No-one here expects you to believe what they're writing, only accept it. You won't be swayed by their words, which is fine, I've not been swayed by yours. For some, in my experience, the "belief" is so culturally imprinted, there is no way to believe anything else.

But then, this thread wasn't/isn't about persuading people to a point of view, it's simply the exchange of opinions.

In simple terms, I have no time for "blind belief". I want evidence. I've looked. I've searched. I find a lack of evidence. Every time you rely on blind faith, I hit a wall. But that doesn't change your own view.
 
Hey, the OP "What do we believe in God?" ? I want to know who the "we" are? :)

edit: If "we" refers to the human species, the can of worms that have been released all turn into gremlins at 12 midnight, and THAT is what destroys humanity! Not the bomb, or climate change, or a meteor that strikes the earth. It is the worms becoming gremlins. Now you have been warned. :)

a-cinematic-wide-shot-of-thousands-of-gremlins-wre-8AjOm6seSw-UVZKZ5K-yPg-8yfgBOlkTzy8-ZyhFyV...jpeg
 
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Mr. Ed said:
Why do we believe in Santa Claus?
Why do we believe in tooth fairy?
Why do we believe in aliens?
Why do we believe in UFOs?
Why do we believe in Bermuda triangle?
Why do we believe in Constitution?
Why do we believe in the President?


Tell me you haven’t questioned the things you mentioned here?

To question is to learn and there is nothing wrong with that.
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I believed in Santa because my mother and Father told me he was real. Nothing more.
My belief in a creator is far different.
 
I can understand why people believe in god or gods. It gives life meaning. If you just look at what's going on in the cosmos, it's like WTF? We're just one frickin' accident and there are no doubt multitude of accidents throughout the universe! We're just little insignificant little creatures like ants in an anthill (no offense to ants out there)! Life is meaningless! After we die, there's nothing! Nothing! NOTHING!!! AHHHHHHhhhhhh!!!!

Oh, well... time for dinner. :ROFLMAO:
 
What I find interesting is that we were created by God, unless someone has an explanation for creativity and how we regenerate. That should be an interesting conversation.
He created us unless we created ourselves. Another interesting conversation.
Since He created us, my opinion, we only have what he gave us to work with. We have intelligence and we have discernment to a point, but we have nothing more than what the creator has given us to work with. Yet we think we are equal to this so called God that CREATED US.
We can explain the universe, we can explain the balance of nature. We can save ourselves from destroying ourselves.
Yeah.....we don't need God............We are God!

Don't cry for help when things don't make sense. Don't ask God for mercy when you have no where else to go. Don't cry when you're dying. Just die.

In fact don't bother replying to this conversation. The rest of us struggle with understanding and try to understand. Leave us be in our struggle.
 
rbtvgo said:
Don't cry for help when things don't make sense. Don't ask God for mercy when you have no where else to go. Don't cry when you're dying. Just die.

In fact don't bother replying to this conversation. The rest of us struggle with understanding and try to understand. Leave us be in our struggle.
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We would all like to understand things better, but sometimes it's not possible. Just accept that. We don't need to understand everything, and there is no reason to accept the word from Bronze Age prophets. Don't be so obsessed with unavoidable ignorance that you have to make up explanations like "God did it." Cry over your death or beg for mercy if you want. Or just deal with reality and accept it.
 
HermitHogan said:
I can understand why people believe in god or gods. It gives life meaning. If you just look at what's going on in the cosmos, it's like WTF? We're just one frickin' accident and there are no doubt multitude of accidents throughout the universe! We're just little insignificant little creatures like ants in an anthill (no offense to ants out there)! Life is meaningless! After we die, there's nothing! Nothing! NOTHING!!! AHHHHHHhhhhhh!!!!

Oh, well... time for dinner. :ROFLMAO:
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I believe in God because all the evidence indicates the existence of a creator's mind at work. Nothing more.


The real question is why do you choose to believe that life pops up via water because of billions of happy accidents and that water has the ability to come up with information and then proceed to code it for a purpose. Care to explain?
 
JustDave said:
We would all like to understand things better, but sometimes it's not possible. Just accept that. We don't need to understand everything, and there is no reason to accept the word from Bronze Age prophets. Don't be so obsessed with unavoidable ignorance that you have to make up explanations like "God did it." Cry over your death or beg for mercy if you want. Or just deal with reality and accept it.
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Well, please note that it isn't a matter of simply saying that a creator did it. Its a matter of reaching a logical conclusion which is firmly and logically based on what the available evidence indicates.


In stark contrast, your idea of
"Water Did it!" has no observational foundation at all.​
 
Radrook said:
I believe in God because all the evidence indicates the existence of a creator's mind at work. Nothing more.


The real question is why do you choose to believe that life pops up via water because of billions of happy accidents and that water has the ability to come up with information and then proceed to code it for a purpose. Care to explain?
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"It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific."
— Lehigh University's department of biological sciences

I believe in science — not magic.
 
HermitHogan said:
"It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific."
— Lehigh University's department of biological sciences

I believe in science — not magic.
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Thanks!

Please note that there is nothing magical in observing the evidence of planning mind and reaching a logical conclusion based on it as I am doing. In fact, reaching logical conclusions based on observation is an indispensable part of the scientific method.

You know what isn't part of the scientific method? The reaching of conclusions with absolutely no evidence at all while purposefully and cunningly ignoring anything that contradicts some pet preconceived notion in the service of atheistic wishful thinking that is reinforced by theophobia. Now that is definitely the invocation of magic par excellence and that is exactly what you and your peers are doing.

BTW
There are thousands of Scientists who disagree with you.
.
 
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Capt Lightning said:
The more that this topic drags on, the more I think religion, like politics should not be allowed on SF.
As I see it, some people believe in God. Some people including myself, do not.
The End.
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A God belief has no role in government.

That said, some lessons taught from the Bible are an important part of society. So the principle has value, but all the judgemental stuff does not.
 

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