Wrongful convictions in the US

againstthegrain said:
Eyewitness testimony may be direct evidence, but it's often not accurate.
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It's Direct, as opposed to Circumstantial, was the meaning.

againstthegrain said:
Please read the thread, in post #4 a man was exonerated after being convicted of murder on the "eyewitness testimony" of a BLIND person.
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As I said, eyewitness includes all senses, hearing, smelling, touch, etc. Whatever sense her testimony was based on, the judge or jury must have found it to be credible. I read of a case once where a blind woman was raped. She identified the rapist by such a strange Smell, he was gross. They identified him by that testimony after an investigation with all the facts.
 

ohioboy said:
It's Direct, as opposed to Circumstantial, was the meaning.


As I said, eyewitness includes all senses, hearing, smelling, touch, etc. Whatever sense her testimony was based on, the judge or jury must have found it to be credible. I read of a case once where a blind woman was raped. She identified the rapist by such a strange Smell, he was gross. They identified him by that testimony after an investigation with all the facts.
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Yeah they did find it credible, but they were never told the witness was legally blind and he was wrongfully convicted and now exonerated after spending 12 years in jail!

The point is, as FB made, many actors in criminal justice system can be faulty.

"Let's see you have humans committing crimes, humans arresting them, humans prosecuting them, humans defending them, humans on the jury and humans on the bench. All or anyone of these groups could be corrupt, biased, inept, or overzealous. "
 
againstthegrain said:
Yeah they did find it credible, but they were never told the witness was legally blind and he was wrongfully convicted and now exonerated after spending 12 years in jail!

The point is, as FB made, many actors in criminal justice system can be faulty.
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When did it come to be known by the justice system? The defense counsel had to be highly incompetent if that was not brought out at trial. All they had to ask her was "What did he look like"? Now, legally blind is not totally blind, but I don't know which she was! If the Prosecution knowingly withheld that fact, that is a serious breach of duty.
 

ElCastor said:
Would you care to name all these innocent people who have been executed. On the other hand …

“Open Cases: Why One-Third Of Murders In America Go Unresolved”​

“Criminologists estimate that at least 200,000 murders have gone unsolved since the 1960s, leaving family and friends to wait and wonder.”
https://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/3950...one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved
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This thread is about wrongful convictions. If you want to discuss unsolved murders (whataboutism) pls do so in another thread.
 
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ohioboy said:
When did it come to be known by the justice system? The defense counsel had to be highly incompetent if that was not brought out at trial. All they had to ask her was "What did he look like"? Now, legally blind is not totally blind, but I don't know which she was! If the Prosecution knowingly withheld that fact, that is a serious breach of duty.
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Thanks for that brilliant analysis councilor, but how does that help the guy that spent 12 years in prison who has now been exonerated?
 
I know nothing about the cases being discussed in this thread but I'm thinking that when politicians start banging the Law and Order drum to get elected, it must put a lot of pressure on public servants to deliver the goods, one way or another. Add racism to the mix and it is easy to create convenient scapegoats to satisfy the public desire for action.

I hope that lessons have been learned from these sad stories.
 
ohioboy said:
Well then how about a name, a State, a Court. Back it up with facts of is it just a story you heard?
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How about you find some body else to argue with in some other thread? Your legal bull chit is generally useless and uninformative and only serves to cloud and confuse.

The deets are in Post #4 and has been there since I posted it in 12/2023. Happy?
 
ElCastor said:
Actually there is a list, but that still doesn‘t justify your demand that eye witness evidence be eliminated from court testimony. Believe what you like, but I am signing out.
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I never said ANYTHING remotely like the bolded statement. YOU MADE IT UP OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH.

Please sign out, take the little barking wanna be lawyer w you.
 
Warrigal said:
I know nothing about the cases being discussed in this thread but I'm thinking that when politicians start banging the Law and Order drum to get elected, it must put a lot of pressure on public servants to deliver the goods, one way or another. Add racism to the mix and it is easy to create convenient scapegoats to satisfy the public desire for action.

I hope that lessons have been learned from these sad stories.
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These types of things have been going on forever. It's not new in any way as you can see by how long ago many of these people have been in jail before they were exonerated.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think for death penalty case only forensic evidence should be allowed. That means no eyewitnesses, confessions, etc. It's like they either have the accused's DNA on the knife, or not.
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Against The Grain, I apologize. I was confusing you with Fuzzybuddy. I‘m out of this thread.
 
ElCastor said:
Against The Grain, I apologize. I was confusing you with Fuzzybuddy. I‘m out of this thread.
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Thank you, apology accepted.

And if you care to check through the thread I have mentioned that with each exoneration criminals got away w murder, etc. Many of these cases are still unsolved and/or the criminals never caught or punished.
 
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LAS VEGAS (KSNV) — "Nearly 25 years after her wrongful arrest, Kirstin Blaise Lobato has been awarded $34 million in damages by a federal jury in her civil lawsuit against the Las Vegas Metro Police Department.

The jury found in favor of Lobato, who was wrongfully convicted for the 2001 murder of Duran Bailey and spent over 16 years in prison before being exonerated in 2017.

"I am so grateful to my attorneys, Loevy + Loevy, for taking my case when no one else would help me, and for working so hard on it," Lobato said.

Lobato's lawsuit claimed she was wrongfully targeted by LVMPD after defending herself against an unrelated rape attempt over a month before Bailey's murder.

Her attorneys argued that detectives fabricated evidence, mischaracterized her statements, and falsely suggested she confessed to the murder, despite having a solid alibi in Panaca at the time of Bailey's death.

"Detectives not only framed Blaise Lobato for murder, but they actually used the trauma of her earlier, unrelated sexual assault to do it," said Elizabeth Wang, one of Lobato's attorneys. "Blaise was a vulnerable teenager, and the criminal justice system failed her. Today, the jury spoke the truth and delivered justice."

David B. Owens, another attorney for Lobato, emphasized the broader implications of the verdict. "Blaise was a person the police should have treated with care, concern, and protection, but instead they built a bogus case around a teenager by weaponizing a rape attempt she survived," Owens said. "We are thankful that this jury saw that truth."

Lobato's conviction was vacated by the Nevada state court in December 2017, and all charges were dropped.

She was released in early January 2018. Earlier this year, the state court issued her a Certificate of Innocence, officially declaring her innocent of all charges.

In addition to the $34 million in compensatory damages, the jury awarded $10,000 in punitive damages against each of the individual detectives involved in the case.

"This is an extraordinary woman," said attorney Megan Pierce. "Blaise has been through more in her life than a dozen women should be asked to survive, and she has come out of it tough, fierce, and stronger than ever. We can’t wait to see what she does with the rest of her life, now that she’s free to put all this behind her.""
 
I wonder if there's even one country where wrongful convictions haven't happened.

We can narrow the field to only democratic or "western" countries. Of course, some of them no longer impose capital punishment, and maybe some of them never did, idk.

Criminal investigation has made a lot of critical advancements. It's become as much a science as an investigation, and juries today have come to expect compelling scientific evidence from both prosecutors and defense attorneys. If they don't see any, or if what they're shown is too confusing or too weak, they are extremely difficult to sway one way or another, particularly when an accused person's life is in their hands.

Jury selection has become increasingly more rigorous, as well. And with so much pretrial crime-related publicity on social and mainstream media, attorneys have to root-out hundreds of prospective jurors rather than dozens. And I've noticed that a lot of criminal courts seat more alternate jurors these days.
 
911 said:
You have to be very careful when speaking to the cops. Think before you answer.
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If you just comply with their simple requests - give 'em your ID, or if you don't have it, tell 'em your real name and date of birth, hand over your auto insurance if they ask for it, turn off the engine and step out of the car if they ask you to - all will go well.

You don't have to answer interrogative questions, and you shouldn't. You don't have to agree to any type of search or a breathalyzer/sobriety test, but you should. If they ask you to put your hands behind your back, do it, but don't bother asking why, just shut up and listen. They'll tell you either as they remove the cuffs, or just before they put you in the backseat of a squad car.

Don't run, and don't run your mouth. If you've done something illegal or posses something illegal, accept the freaking charges, or even just a summons ticket, instead of turning one or two possible misdemeanors into a litany of felonies and certain arrest.

Dealing with police is not difficult if you just act like an adult.
 
againstthegrain said:
Voluntarily taking a field sobriety test is a VERY BAD idea. They are designed to to give the officer probable cause to hook you up and nothing more. In Idaho drivers have to submit to a breathalyzer or blood draw if requested.

The Civilian Rights Handguide: A Citizen's Guide to Navigating Police Encounters
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"The field sobriety test isn't designed to ONLY give the officer probably cause to hook you up and nothing more"...is BS.

A FST is designed so the officer can test you real quick (note: "FST" is easy to remember when taught: fast...), so the officer can determine if you need further testing such as a breath test or blood draw OR to be put in the back of his car to keep you SAFE and you not walk out into traffic!

A field sobriety test is all they HAD way back when; in addition it is CHEAPER than brethos or drawing blood. You ever tried to draw blood on a drunk? LOL.

The only reason I would say field sobriety test is a VERY BAD idea is when I am speaking to someone OVER 55-60 or someone who has obviously NOT been keeping up with their physical fitness, is fat, pregnant an/or over 45! Both age and lack physical fitness make us oldies suck at walking straight OR balancing heel to toe. Pregnant women can't balance either.
 
NYT - "The city [NYC] settled 953 cases in 2024, and the highest payouts included five settlements that cost at least $15 million each. Two were from the wrongful convictions of James Irons and Thomas Malik, who in 1995 were charged with the murder of a subway clerk.

After spending three decades behind bars, Mr. Irons and Mr. Malik were exonerated by a judge who found that the police had elicited false confessions from them. Both were awarded about $16.3 million last year.
Image
People embrace in a courtroom.

Thomas Malik, left, and James Irons were freed after years behind bars. Police investigators had elicited false confessions from them.

The Police Department noted that around 64 percent of the cases settled in 2024 were wrongful convictions and at least half of those were around two decades old."
 

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