Religion in the classroom. A question.

I think schools should be about learning education. Leave personal beliefs at home. You can be islamic or catholic...I don't care. I respect you both, but it makes no difference on subjects like biology, physics, math etc.
If we all agree that 1 plus 1 equal 2, does it matter if I believe in Allah, Jesus or Buddha?
 
dilettante said:
What is cultural Marxism? | GotQuestions.org

Cultural Marxism can be a controversial term—some assert there’s no such thing, and others use the term as a catch-all for anything they see as undermining society. In short, cultural Marxism is a revolutionary leftist idea that traditional culture is the source of oppression in the modern world. Cultural Marxism is often linked to an insistence upon political correctness, multiculturalism, and perpetual attacks on the foundations of culture: the nuclear family, marriage, patriotism, traditional morality, law and order, etc. Cultural Marxists are assumed to be committed to establishing economic Marxism, in which case their cultural attacks are a necessary preparation for their ultimate goal.​
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That looks like a mythology to me. Who is transmitting that mythology?
 

Tazx said:
I think schools should be about learning education. Leave personal beliefs at home. You can be islamic or catholic...I don't care. I respect you both, but it makes no difference on subjects like biology, physics, math etc.
If we all agree that 1 plus 1 equal 2, does it matter if I believe in Allah, Jesus or Buddha?
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I would say the most important goal of education is to defend and transmit a culture based on the principles of democracy. That culture encourages lifelong learning as the path to happiness and citizen responsibility empowering individuals to self-actualize as good followers or good leaders whichever they choose to be. This is a social order as well as a life of virtues and principles.
 
Tazx said:
I think schools should be about learning education. Leave personal beliefs at home. You can be islamic or catholic...I don't care. I respect you both, but it makes no difference on subjects like biology, physics, math etc.
If we all agree that 1 plus 1 equal 2, does it matter if I believe in Allah, Jesus or Buddha?
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I agree. But the prohibition needs to extend to other belief systems as well. And no, I am not talking about ignoring (actual) science along with religion.
 
dilettante said:
I fail to see what is controversial about requiring sanity of those entrusted to shape the minds of children.

Many have been driven mad, either due to personal background and baggage or inculcation with antisocial philosophies. They have learned to cover this while nobody is looking, probably in substantial part through conditioning by toxic university environments.
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o_O You are scaring the hell out of me. How is what you are talking about different from mind control? What is a toxic university environment?
 
dilettante said:
I fail to see what is controversial about requiring sanity of those entrusted to shape the minds of children.

Many have been driven mad, either due to personal background and baggage or inculcation with antisocial philosophies. They have learned to cover this while nobody is looking, probably in substantial part through conditioning by toxic university environments.
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Entrusting anyone to "shape the minds of children" is not a good idea. Why can't we just teach them (as I was certainly taught) reading, math, science, history, and so forth. And charge teachers to bury their damnfool opinions until after class.
 
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Vida May said:
o_O You are scaring the hell out of me. How is what you are talking about different from mind control? What is a toxic university environment?
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I'm not talking about the kinds of witch hunts the education industry used to weed out voices they didn't approve of. Just standard psychological examinations.

Many professions require one to meet standards for licensing. What's alarming about disqualifying neurotics from such close contact and control over children for so many hours of their lives?
 
gruntlabor said:
Entrusting anyone to "shape the minds of children" is not a good idea. Why can't we just teach them (as I was certainly taught) reading, arithmetic, science, history, and so forth. And charge teachers to bury their damnfool opinions until after class.
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That would be a good thing.

But many who succeed in reaching the classroom do so because they've learned to mask their condition which then comes out when nobody is watching.
 
Vida May said:
I would say the most important goal of education is to defend and transmit a culture based on the principles of democracy. That culture encourages lifelong learning as the path to happiness and citizen responsibility empowering individuals to self-actualize as good followers or good leaders whichever they choose to be. This is a social order as well as a life of virtues and principles.
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.. to defend and transmit a culture? The goal of education is to educate, not to brainwash with ideologies.
 
mrstime said:
Well I assume that if the 10 commandments is taught in public schools, there would have to be some equivalent for Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhism, and a few more. Is that really what Americans want?
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The difference between East and West reveals what is wrong in the West beginning with the God of Abraham religions, Jewish, Christian, and Islam. I think Jesus was much more Eastern than the materialist Romans made him.

Buddhism does not have a set of 10 commandments, but instead has a set of five precepts, also known as sīla, that are considered ways to train oneself. The precepts are: Do not take life, Do not take what is not given, Do not engage in sexual misconduct, Do not speak falsely, and Do not take drugs that cloud the mind.


Buddhist communities recite the precepts together on holy days to reaffirm their commitment to living a good life. The precepts are not intended to be rigid rules, but rather something to reflect on and improve upon
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Buddha and his

Unlike @dilettante good intention of authority over teachers, Buddhist and Eastern philosophy, in general, presents precepts-" not intended to be rigid rules, but rather something to reflect on and improve upon". That is the principle that is essential to our liberty, not good intentions to impose on the will of another.
 
I just don't think it's much different than being sure about those we allow to perform surgery on a child's body. Mental and emotional malpractitioners are just as bad, maybe worse.
 
Vida May said:
o_O What is a toxic university environment?
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Some of these university students shouting "from the river to the sea" in the past year didn't know what river or sea was being talking about in that rant. Even I knew that one and I suck at geography.

To me, that was toxic. They were joining in just to belong. To what exactly is a question. I said it before (and probably good I never had kids) but if I had a kid at an expensive college, found out they were doing that, I'd drag them to the car, hit their head like a bad cop and throw them in the back seat.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Schools should include all religions in their curriculum for further division in our society. Imagine, Christians and Muslim classes and study groups, alongside Catholicism, Buddhism, Taoism, agnosticism, and atheism. Why not teach all world views so students can choose for themselves.
The problem with this there would be rivalry and competition to gain the most followers and thus accomplish nothing just like the world is today.

If people had enough sense to forego religion altogether and focus on their own internal growth, there would be no reason for religion to exist. However, most people cannot construe a personalized replacement for their religion because they don't have faith in themselves to realize they don't need religion to know god.
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I think schools should include all religions (all main religions and religions of people in your area - obviously not every single religion i n the world, that would be impossible) - if we learn to understand and respect each other, that would cause less division, not more

But not in separate groups - everybody of any or no religion learns about them all.

It doesnt matter why you think people need religions or what religion, if any, you are - everyone learns about what other people believe and do
 
Remy said:
Some of these university students shouting "from the river to the sea" in the past year didn't know what river or sea was being talking about in that rant. Even I knew that one and I suck at geography.

To me, that was toxic. They were joining in just to belong. To what exactly is a question. I said it before (and probably good I never had kids) but if I had a kid at an expensive college, found out they were doing that, I'd drag them to the car, hit their head like a bad cop and throw them in the back seat.
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Yep, shouting "from the river to the sea" is as bad as if a group was shouting to enslave African-Americans or to lock up all Japanese-Americans. It definitely creates a "toxic" environment and shouldn't be allowed on university campuses.

I would hope that any public college or university would have a policy of allowing political protests, but not protests that target a specific race, gender, ethnicity, culture, heritage, or religious group.
 
HermitHogan said:
Yep, shouting "from the river to the sea" is as bad as if a group was shouting to enslave African-Americans or to lock up all Japanese-Americans. It definitely creates a "toxic" environment and shouldn't be allowed on university campuses.

I would hope that any public college or university would have a policy of allowing political protests, but not protests that target a specific race, gender, ethnicity, culture, heritage, or religious group.
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I appreciate your intent to ensure that public colleges and universities foster respectful environments. However, a policy like the one you suggest would enter very dangerous legal territory and infringe on the First Amendment. The First Amendment protects freedom of speech, even if that speech is controversial or offensive to some. Any attempt to limit protests based on the specific content of their message—such as targeting race, gender, ethnicity, culture, heritage, or religion—would likely be deemed unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court has consistently held that government entities, including public universities, cannot restrict speech based on its content or viewpoint, except in narrowly defined cases like incitement to violence, true threats, or obscenity. There are already laws in place to address these exceptions, such as laws against inciting riots or encouraging illegal actions. These provide a framework to ensure public safety without trampling on free speech rights.

While promoting a culture of respect is important, imposing content-based restrictions would undermine the very freedoms that universities should exemplify and protect. It’s crucial to address harmful speech through dialogue, education, and counter-speech rather than through restrictive policies that could set a dangerous precedent.
 
dilettante said:
There is some interesting stuff out there:

Were the 10 Commandments Around Before Moses?

The 10 Commandments existed before Moses and are still important today​
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In summary, the 10 Commandments were known long before Moses. When God gave Moses the stone tablets on which He had written the 10 Commandments on Mount Sinai, He was merely codifying what He had revealed long before and what had been passed on orally before that point.​
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The commandments are still important for all peoples today. God gave His laws for our good (Deuteronomy 10:13). They are based on God’s eternal character of love and help show us how to love God and our fellow man (Romans 13:9-10). “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).​

More likely they existed in slightly different forms for millennia, probably inherited from Sumerians, Assyrians, Akkadians, and Babylonians who took them from even earlier cultures.
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If we all followed the 10 Commandments life would be so much easier.
 
HermitHogan said:
This is the third commandment:

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.​

Wouldn't all the paintings and statues of God and Jesus violate the 3rd Commandment? And what about the cross that people wear around their necks and hang on their walls that they pray to.

And why is God so frickin' jealous? What's wrong with him? He sounds a bit insecure. :unsure:
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Your great Grandchildren's Childs will let you know! ... :coffee: ...
 
gruntlabor said:
Entrusting anyone to "shape the minds of children" is not a good idea. Why can't we just teach them (as I was certainly taught) reading, math, science, history, and so forth. And charge teachers to bury their damnfool opinions until after class.
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Some of the teacher's personality and values will be evident. Kids learn a lot by observation.
 
gruntlabor said:
Entrusting anyone to "shape the minds of children" is not a good idea. Why can't we just teach them (as I was certainly taught) reading, math, science, history, and so forth. And charge teachers to bury their damnfool opinions until after class.
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Education covers a lot more than just the basics of core subjects like the ones you have mentioned but I'll leave that aside.

Each strand of the curriculum is, or should be, clearly defined by a syllabus that must be adhered to. It is the job of the teacher to make sure that the syllabus is faithfully delivered in the teaching program. The students should never know the teacher's opinion on matters religious or political.

That said, in a country so openly and obviously divided between the red and the blue, that must be quite hard.

Besides the politically neutral subjects like math and workshop, just about every subject must be quite difficult for the teacher. How do you teach History without looking critically at the way past events shape the present? How do you teach science without referencing climate change?

I was teaching in a Catholic School for 25 years and I assure you that in my science classes I did not trespass into areas that would conflict with the religious ethos of the school. If I had used my classes to ridicule the teachings of the church about birth control, for example, I would have been dismissed. However, I was free to teach about human reproduction and the various methods of contraception, even though most were forbidden by the Vatican at that time. I could provide the students with factual information such as the success/failure rate of each contraceptive method. What I would not do was provide them with my own personal views on the subject.

I leave others to sort out the delicate balance between Freedom of Religion and the Right to Free Speech in that scenario.
 

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