What's your view on tariffs?

I have never once been stopped by US Customs when leaving the country. Of course, Canada has always questioned me on the way into their Country, and just like the US, you are never stopped on the way out. I suppose it could be done, but it seems to me each country should be responsible for keeping people out, not holding them in.
 

Tariffs are a time-worn way to try and control what other countries do with respect to our interactions with them.
The US has a severe drug problem. It is the worst in the world in developed countries. We think a quick pill will solve whatever ails us. Often the eventual result is worse than the original problem.

So we are the ones with the problem, and the imagined solution is to enter into trade war dynamics with other countries where a fair amount is coming from. The effort is misguided by the claim that those aliens are bringing in the drugs, when 80% of those drugs are being brought in by US citizens. They are recruited as drug mules because the scrutiny is so much higher for non-US citizens, so using US citizens is much preferred, and we have people willing to do it.

Where there is a demand, there will be a supply (One way or another). Addiction is a desperate condition, and desperate people do desperate things. We have the problems (Drug addiction and our citizens bringing in the drugs), and we want to punish other countries for both.

So where does the money go from the tariffs. It goes to the government. It is a tax on US citizens veiled to look like punishment to other countries for a problem we created and have been fueling. It is self-defeating protectionism because we won't accept the blame and figure out a better way to deal with it. Meanwhile the government gets more revenue.

As for illegal immigrants, as long as we continue to hire them, and don't create an easier path to become citizens, they will find a way in illegally (Wall or no wall). JMO
 
If tariffs lead to more American manufacturing, I'm all for them. We can't just be a consumer nation, otherwise we become dependent on those who supply what we need. This includes energy especially.
 

The only way tariffs could lead to more american manufacturing would be if they were eye watering high. It takes years to build a factory. Picking the site. Getting county approval for land use. Submitting plans to the county. Finding contractors…labor to build…ect ect. That is all on a good day. Then there are the things that make a manufacturing plant safe for the workers and the environment. Then a labor force with the right skills. Then a supply chain of things needed to produce the product. And no doubt more…
 
I do not think that 'Made in America ' today equals same standards as it did perhaps up to 80's some might say bit after or before .

We are not who we were before .

A silly example , My hobby is fish I ordered Killifish eggs from Australia and going by the tracking it took 2 days tp travel same distance in Australia which took here 6 days plus their tracking was accurate .
 
Aunt Bea said:
The tariffs are starting to feel like a move to tax consumption instead of our current system of taxing income.

That would be a hit to low income Americans and a benefit to the upper middle class and above.
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That is exactly what it is. Optimistically I see this ending up as the epitome of Dickensian times, but my gut tells me Medieval Europe is a much more likely result.
 
Ultimately, the consumer ends up paying higher prices. I've bought a lot of things over the years from other countries, the big three which come to mind are Canada, Mexico and China. As someone in this thread already mentioned, for the most part, made in the US means assembled in the US. I don't care about buying American, especially these days as America is becoming less and less recognizable. I don't think it necessarily means the product is superior, just more expensive.
 
johndoe said:
If tariffs lead to more American manufacturing, I'm all for them. We can't just be a consumer nation, otherwise we become dependent on those who supply what we need. This includes energy especially.
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Tariff's put more money into the governments coffers, and consumers pay higher prices for goods.

Will it lead to more US manufacturing? Well, I guess we'd all have varied opinions on that. I fall into the "no", category - it won't lead to any significant manufacturing increase in the US. Cost of manufacture is such an important aspect - and the US (or most of Western Europe) simply can't compete with low low cost of manufacturing in Asian countries.

To move manufacturing to the US, we'd have to get used to paying higher prices for our goods. Yet, you could actively seek out US made goods if you wanted to now. To move those jobs to the US business would have to build the factories, the machinery, etc. Those costs won't be swallowed by the business, they'd be passed on, making it even more difficult. I just don't see it could possibly work.

You have to look at BRICS, which is becoming a powerhouse without Western Europe being involved.

Whatever happens - it always ends the same. We'll all end up paying more at a time when everything already costs too much.
 
bobcat said:
In addition, foreign companies also have factories here in America. It would probably shock you to know how many "American" businesses are actually Chinese owned. Many people don't have much disposable income, and they are forced to vote with their wallet as to which goods they can afford. They have to price shop, not look at labels.
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What an intriguing question, so I googled it. Here is what it said:
As of January 2024, 265 Chinese companies were listed on the three largest US stock exchanges. This includes the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, and NYSE American.
Explanation
  • (totally) As of 2024, the United States has approximately 33.2 million businesses. This includes everything from small mom-and-pop shops to large multinational corporations.
  • As of 2022, about 5,000 Chinese-owned companies were operating in the US.
  • The number of Chinese companies entering the US market has increased by about 8% every year for the past five years.
  • The total market capitalization of the Chinese companies listed on US stock exchanges was $848 billion as of January 2024.
  • This is down from the beginning of 2023, when the total market capitalization was $1.03 trillion.
  • Chinese trade and investment are some of the most divisive topics in the US
I was shocked to find out that these are China own companies (from the search):
Examples of Chinese-owned companies in the US
Smithfield Foods​
Terex Corp.​
Triple H Coal​
Zonare Medical Systems​
AMC movie theaters​
General Electric's appliance division​
General Motors​


To be fair, I reversed the ownership to see what the Americans own in China. Here is what it turned up.
How many U.S. companies are doing business in China?
As per the survey of China Briefing, there are a total of 8,619 US Companies which are established and running in China. Mar 19, 2024​
(totally) There are approximately 184 million registered market entities in China, with around 58.3 million of them classified as enterprises, as of the end of 2023.​
Some American owned companies in China are: KFC, McDonald's, and Starbucks have expanded rapidly in China . Walmart, Target, AT&T, GE, Ford, Carrier, Apple, and Tesla are a few more.​



The mind leads me to another question:
What country owns the most land in the United States?
It's actually Canada, which accounts for 32%, or 14.2 million acres. Rounding out the top five are the Netherlands at 12%, Italy at 6%, the United Kingdom at 6% and Germany at 5%. Jan 11, 2024​
I am not trying to make a statement here, or take sides. Looking at numbers sometimes gives a better picture.
It still was an interesting comment which lead me to look at some numbers.
 
Magna-Carta said:
It seems to me that a tariff is essentially a domestic tax on imports. There's no international mechanism for one country to directly tax another. However, any money raised through tariffs clearly comes from somewhere -- and it mostly comes out of the pockets of the citizens/customers in the country that implemented the tariffs.
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Agree!!!
 
Vicky said:
What an intriguing question, so I googled it. Here is what it said:
As of January 2024, 265 Chinese companies were listed on the three largest US stock exchanges. This includes the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ, and NYSE American.
Explanation
  • (totally) As of 2024, the United States has approximately 33.2 million businesses. This includes everything from small mom-and-pop shops to large multinational corporations.
  • As of 2022, about 5,000 Chinese-owned companies were operating in the US.
  • The number of Chinese companies entering the US market has increased by about 8% every year for the past five years.
  • The total market capitalization of the Chinese companies listed on US stock exchanges was $848 billion as of January 2024.
  • This is down from the beginning of 2023, when the total market capitalization was $1.03 trillion.
  • Chinese trade and investment are some of the most divisive topics in the US
I was shocked to find out that these are China own companies (from the search):
Examples of Chinese-owned companies in the US
Smithfield Foods​
Terex Corp.​
Triple H Coal​
Zonare Medical Systems​
AMC movie theaters​
General Electric's appliance division​
General Motors​


To be fair, I reversed the ownership to see what the Americans own in China. Here is what it turned up.
How many U.S. companies are doing business in China?
As per the survey of China Briefing, there are a total of 8,619 US Companies which are established and running in China. Mar 19, 2024​
(totally) There are approximately 184 million registered market entities in China, with around 58.3 million of them classified as enterprises, as of the end of 2023.​
Some American owned companies in China are: KFC, McDonald's, and Starbucks have expanded rapidly in China . Walmart, Target, AT&T, GE, Ford, Carrier, Apple, and Tesla are a few more.​



The mind leads me to another question:
What country owns the most land in the United States?
It's actually Canada, which accounts for 32%, or 14.2 million acres. Rounding out the top five are the Netherlands at 12%, Italy at 6%, the United Kingdom at 6% and Germany at 5%. Jan 11, 2024​
I am not trying to make a statement here, or take sides. Looking at numbers sometimes gives a better picture.
It still was an interesting comment which lead me to look at some numbers.
Click to expand...
The U.S. International Investment Position was -23.6T at end of 3rd quarter, 2024. U.S. Net International Investment Position,
 

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