But, it's against my religious beliefs!!!!

G

Grumpy Ol' Man

Senior Member
Location
Kansas, U.S.
The Kentucky Clerk, Kim Davis, continues to refuse issuance of marriage licenses to same-sex couples. She is defying a court order. The SCOTUS refused to set aside the lower court rulings telling her to do her job. She screams "religious persecution", saying to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples would violate Biblical law. Ummm.... Ms. Davis, I thought one of the Ten Commandments had something to do with "adultery". What a hypocrite.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...lerk-fighting-gay-marriage-has-wed-four-times

"She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing her first husband. They were fathered by her third husband but adopted by her second. Davis worked at the clerk's office at the time of each divorce and has since remarried."
 

Then she shouldn't be in a service job that part of the requirements is that she serves all the people equally according to the laws of which she is beholden to. She is employed as a public servant for which she accepts a salary, can't do the job, find other suitable work that doesn't go against your beliefs. So, I gather lawsuits will follow, more tax dollars down the drain for hypocrisy.
 

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AprilT said:
Then she shouldn't be in a service job that part of the requirements is that she serves all the people equally according to the laws of which she is beholden to. She is employed as a public servant for which she accepts a salary, can't do the job, find other suitable work that doesn't go against your beliefs. So, I gather lawsuits will follow, more tax dollars down the drain for hypocrisy.
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She's not "hired". She is holding an elected position in that county. So, she cannot be removed from office other than by impeachment. In most states the impeachment of an elected official takes a special election where 2/3 or the registered voters in the most recent election have to vote for impeachment. IOW, the court system needs to find some means of removing her from office other than what I believe would be "Constitutionally correct".

I wonder if the court finds her in contempt, if she could be incarcerated. If in jail, would not an assistant then be in charge of the office. If that assistant began issuing licenses, perhaps they just let her rot in jail until the next election cycle.
 
Grumpy Ol' Man said:
She's not "hired". She is holding an elected position in that county. So, she cannot be removed from office other than by impeachment. In most states the impeachment of an elected official takes a special election where 2/3 or the registered voters in the most recent election have to vote for impeachment. IOW, the court system needs to find some means of removing her from office other than what I believe would be "Constitutionally correct".

I wonder if the court finds her in contempt, if she could be incarcerated. If in jail, would not an assistant then be in charge of the office. If that assistant began issuing licenses, perhaps they just let her rot in jail until the next election cycle.
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How ever you want to look at it, she's still hired, even if elected, she was hired and is receiving a salary and if can't fulfill the duties of the job can be removed if in violation of the laws of that job.
 
..and yet in spite of all, she is willing to risk jail for no other reason than that she really believes this stuff !!!
I do my best to respect other peoples beliefs, but I find it harder and harder every day with respect to the fundamentalists.
When I am flipping channels and stumble on an Evangelist, I want to vomit at the ignorance spewing from their mouths.
As a non believer, I have my own bias, but I honestly do believe that a lot of these mental cases we have walking around the streets have their roots in this kind of nonsense. Forgive me if I happened to offend anyone. This is not directed at anyone on here. I hope I don't get banned for being abusive, but I just can't take their ---- any more.
 
She shouldn't step on anyone's rights for her religious beliefs, maybe she should work for her church. She needs to be removed from her position one way or another. Her religion must cause her to discriminate against her fellow man, doesn't sound very kind or holy to me.
 
This little B word is a right pile-o-crap. The world doesn't revolve around her personal beliefs. I assume her salary is tax dollar paid. Some tax dollars from gay people. But she's willing to take the money.
 
Speaking for myself, if I was lawfully asked to do something in my job that I considered to be immoral or otherwise against my conscience, I would have two options. I could resign on a matter of principle or I could defy the law and take the consequences - being dismissed or perhaps facing charges or other legal penalties.

You can't have it both ways i.e. defying the law and keeping your job.
Perhaps she is willing to make herself a martyr over this issue?
 
That sounds very odd to me.
Surely this is not a criminal matter.
She should be dismissed, not held in jail without charge.

What happened to habeas corpus?

Also, what about the rest of the office?
I understand they are acting in solidarity.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
That sounds very odd to me.
Surely this is not a criminal matter.
She should be dismissed, not held in jail without charge.

What happened to habeas corpus?

Also, what about the rest of the office?
I understand they are acting in solidarity.
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Violation of a court order is a criminal offense. She was jailed for contempt of court. Perfectly legal done all the time.
 
Yes, that thought occurred to me after posting.
How long can such incarceration go on?
There must be a time limit, surely.

This seems a good way to create a public martyr.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Yes, that thought occurred to me after posting.
How long can such incarceration go on?
There must be a time limit, surely.

This seems a good way to create a public martyr.
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She will be in Jail until she acquiesces and does her job as the court directed or authorizes a deputy in her office to issue such licenses as may be requested.
 
Yes DW... A judge can find someone in "contempt of court" and send them to jail.. She is definitely in Contempt..... that being the SUPREME Court... can't get higher than that..
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Yes, that thought occurred to me after posting.
How long can such incarceration go on?
There must be a time limit, surely.

This seems a good way to create a public martyr.
Click to expand...


She won't be a real martyr because she is so very clearly wrong. She cannot keep her job getting paid by the taxpayers and refuse to fulfill its requirements. She is just an idiot. Signing the marriage licenses didn't indicate approval or condoning of gay marriage, just that the parties were entitled to be married under the civil law.
 
It sounds like she is choosing to martyr herself and will be seen as such by people with a like view of same sex marriage.
Martyrdom doesn't actually have very much to do with right or wrong.
It is about refusing to give in in the face of sanctions.
 
She defied a court order and only one other employee out of six supports her. She is a jerk, pure and simple...
 
That one is her son, by the way.

The trouble seems to be that she is an elected official, not an appointed one.
The process of removing her would be difficult and lengthy, possibly dragging on until January.

Can she be fired?

In a sense, yes, but it is unlikely to happen, and it would take awhile. The county clerk is an elected official, and she cannot be removed from office by any local officials, or by any state official acting alone. She can be ousted by the State Legislature, but that is an extremely rare occurrence, and neither the law nor court rulings offer much guidance on what constitutes grounds for removal. In a conservative state, Ms. Davis is likely to find considerable support among lawmakers.

The State House, where Democrats outnumber Republicans, 54 to 46, could impeach her – akin to an indictment – by a simple majority vote. The Senate, which Republicans control, 27 to 11, would try her, and a conviction would require a two-thirds vote. Mr. Beshear has said he would not call a special legislative session, so any impeachment bid would have to wait until the Legislature convenes again in January.

Is there any other way to remove her?

Yes, but it would not be easy. She could be removed if she were convicted of a crime, and some of her critics have said she should be charged with official misconduct, a misdemeanor. The county attorney, citing a conflict of interest, referred that question to the office of the state attorney general, Jack Conway. Mr. Conway, a Democrat running for governor, is unlikely to relish having that political grenade handed to him.

Is there any other way out of this bind, short of acquiescence by Ms. Davis?

Yes, but it would require a change in state law. Mr. Beshear has said he will not call a special legislative session to address the matter, so it will have to wait until next year, when there is a new governor. There are a number of approaches that might get around objections like that of Ms. Davis. Marriage licenses could be issued by a different or broader set of local or state officials, for example.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/02/us/same-sex-marriage-kentucky-supreme-court.html?_r=0
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