Just as a point of clarification... not wanting to "stir the pot"... your OP's question was:
So, the highlighted part doesn't make it sound like it was intended to be independent, at all...?
Where does God live?
- Thread starter bobcat
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Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
I have been tasked with reading the children's story in church next Sunday. The title of the book is "What is God Like?" and it uses the many metaphors for God that are found in the Judeo-Christian bible. Other faiths have their own metaphors and it has been this way since mankind painted the walls of their sacred caves.
Some of the metaphors are - God is like an eagle, a river, a shepherd, a fort, a gardener, a flame, the wind, an artist, a mother, father, rainbow, and best friend. I could add a few more of my own metaphors that connect me with the non-corporeal entity that we call God. I do not, however, picture God existing in some hypothetical wormhole far away in space (Deep Space Nine reference).
The problem we humans have talking about God is that our experiences in our tiny part of an immense universe are limited with respect to time and space. We have problems with the concepts of infinity and eternity. No wonder we are baffled by the idea of divinity. To my mind, to surrender to the mystery of the divine is to enter a whole new dimension of living. To take that leap of faith with sincerity is to be forever changed. Jesus described that change as being reborn as a new person. I totally get that metaphor.
Some of the metaphors are - God is like an eagle, a river, a shepherd, a fort, a gardener, a flame, the wind, an artist, a mother, father, rainbow, and best friend. I could add a few more of my own metaphors that connect me with the non-corporeal entity that we call God. I do not, however, picture God existing in some hypothetical wormhole far away in space (Deep Space Nine reference).
The problem we humans have talking about God is that our experiences in our tiny part of an immense universe are limited with respect to time and space. We have problems with the concepts of infinity and eternity. No wonder we are baffled by the idea of divinity. To my mind, to surrender to the mystery of the divine is to enter a whole new dimension of living. To take that leap of faith with sincerity is to be forever changed. Jesus described that change as being reborn as a new person. I totally get that metaphor.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
With respect, the challenge is to have a God without reference to any earthly concern. Faith, blind faith, needs explaining in very specific terms. It's blind faith that trips up many - including me. If I can give blind faith to a God, why not to anything else? That's the real question.
bobcat
Well-known Member
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- Northern Calif
You seemed to have overlooked this part of the very same post: "Lastly, some believe God is a cosmic consciousness that we can merge with in a Nirvana sense in a blissful state, but what happens when we die? Do we become part of that consciousness that exists outside of space and time? Do we exist forever in eternal ecstasy? Will there even be an us?"
I'm sure it was purely accidental that you missed it.
If asking where others believe God lives stirs some pot, then I will plead guilty.
I didn't miss it at all, but I do appreciate you pointing it out again
I was just confused how the thread was started with a reference to the Bible in the very first sentence, but then seemingly retracted in Post#345.
I see now that it was perhaps something semantical.
Thanks again for the clarification.
papa tiger
Well-known Member
Just think of a 600,000 man Jewish army, with additional wives and children running away from Egypt.
Parting the waters and drowing said Egyption army. It's Weeks / Months in the works. Then all the time
Wondering around lost in the Quasi deserts. It takes ones breath doesn't it?
Consider the miles of Caravan, supplies, water all provided. Peace for all.
Parting the waters and drowing said Egyption army. It's Weeks / Months in the works. Then all the time
Wondering around lost in the Quasi deserts. It takes ones breath doesn't it?
Consider the miles of Caravan, supplies, water all provided. Peace for all.
papa tiger
Well-known Member
Our Brain operates at low power, so its universe after death has to go out of this time / dimension zone to work.
Moving stuff is back breaking work for me, unless I think I can use a Forklift. Then I can move a ton or
so very easy. Then it needs to be recharged, refueled and serviced by someone who knows what he's
doing. Thus said very local with the reality of it all.
They would not give me clearance. ... (Travelers with Clearance there to go and do.) ...
...
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rbtvgo
Member
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- Absecon, new jersey
I am not criticizing anyone. This is simply my thoughts, my opinion ...............period.
We are all in the same boat. We are all sinners according to God, (unless you don't believe in God). In which case the whole question is mute and you should just move on. Blunt, maybe but direct.
If,on the other hand you accept what he says than You have a problem. Believe God, then, you are a sinner.
Don't believe in God then move on.
Pretty simple.
I am not going to argue or debate. As I have often said, it is between you and God, (if you believe he is there).
If not, then go someplace else.
I am a sinner, and I do need God. I make no bones about it.
I know that others feel the same, so I try to reach out. That's all. Not going to convince you , don't want to convince you.
You do the work. Reach out to God, don't reach out. Your call.
bob
Magna-Carta
Senior Member
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- UK
When you say, "way back USA statement...", would that be pre or post 1954?
I wonder, the phrase, "One Nation Under God". Could it have been to publically and deliberately differentiate a nation of believers from a nation of perceived non-believers. The USA vs the Soviet Union, perhaps?
I read that as each decade passes, atheism among Americans is increasing. I don't think there will be a change in the Pledge of Elegance though, as diversity and inclusion seems to have gone out of the window.
As in, "the one true god", for which there seems to be many? Or were you thinking of something else? It seems that the perceived truest of all 'true' gods is the one based on which area of the world the believer was born in, regardless of where they think their god lives.
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dilettante
Well-known Member
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- Michigan
Yeah, it was a Cold War change. Shocking in a way that it hasn't been reversed, but there is a strong lobby for retaining it.
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
Blind faith is given to all sorts of things, not just to belief in deities.
There is blind faith and then there is deep and mature faith. I recommend Fowler's book Stages of Faith. In it he posits that faith is a universal inbuilt human condition that matures in the same way that our cognition does, in stages. All people place their faith in something - science, wealth and power are just a few examples. Some place their faith in family, or in their own talents or abilities.
A young child, for example, has faith in their mother and/or father and trusts them to be protective and all knowing. Later, as the child matures into adulthood, the childish faith gives way to something different - sometimes love, sometimes disillusion.
Conversion is simply transference of faith from one object/entity to something else. At every stage faith and doubt can coexist. You need to read the book if you are interested in this examination of faith. It is not just about religious faith.
Magna-Carta
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I'm inclined to agree, well, mostly. I don't think we can get away from the bible as a source, even when giving our own personal opinions of where 'some' of 'believe' God lives. Especially for those who follow its teachings. Some will naturally use the bible to help formulate and develop their own opinions of where they believe God lives. In that respect, the bible might be the only thing that some can go on, or go by.
However, some who don't believe in the God of the Bible or the God of any other holy book might still be spiritual in some way, and therefore might not recognise heaven as a place, or a place where God lives. Their sense of where God, or some other higher cosmic power might live, could be on a completely different level, in a different dimension, and in a place that even they might find difficult to comprehend, or even to communicate effectively.
It's said that God created heaven and earth, and some bible passages suggest that God resides in heaven, and that's where some of us might go when we die, to be with him in heaven. But to me this begs the question, if God created heaven, where did God live before he created heaven?
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papa tiger
Well-known Member
Christianity is the most widely practiced Religion in Russia. Most are Orthodox. 800,000 Roman Catholics.
Communism etc. practiced widespread restriction. The Bible has been interpreted, reprinted all over the place.
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Joey
Member
I recently heard about the discovery of a new planet on one of the astrology shows - there obviously are more and universes perhaps also - so one could quite easily postulate that they will undoubtedly be more and more planets we haven't come across yet and unless I am mistaken we have not yet explored beyond our own universe? - so very likely more universes and more heavens and more God places?
I have used the bible quite frequently for different pursuits and find personally with our advancing scientific knowledge that it has become more and more historic and less accurate providing answers about the new universes and new planets? - and God?
Warrigal
SF VIP
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- Sydney, Australia
"different pursuits"? Whatever do you mean by that?
By the way, astrology is not a reliable source of scientific knowledge. I hope you intended to write "astronomy".
Joey
Member
astronomy yes of course ta! - different pursuits?? - well research discussions ; church readings at times ; preparation of eucharist mini sermons etc etc - I was quite involved at one time?
gruntlabor
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I think Infinity and eternity are one and the same concept, except that eternity applies only to time. Yes, I have a big problem with infinity. I can't seem to get past it. Does it exist outside of theory? That is my first question.
PeppermintPatty
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This is good. If God created heaven, where did God live (exist) before he created heaven.
Infinity is a difficult thing for humanity to grasp. It’s basically beyond our understanding.
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
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Thank you, Patty! Answer could be, He lives in heaven, which meaning is garbled and confused with the clouds, the universe, or anything and everything outside the earth, including outside the universe.
So let's say He created the universe.
Now, the words 'He lives' is another problem of misunderstandings and iffy translation. He IS (Jehovah translates to 'I am') and has always been outside all of His creations, including the universe.
EDIT
And He may not be actually infinite, but only infinite in the sense that we as little children would need in order for us to understand, maybe.
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Naturally
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The answer to the question of where God lives is Heaven.
Heaven is the throne of God.
If looking for a physical postal address, you won't find it.
God doesn't have a social security number either.
So does God not also live within you? Or maybe lives among you?
In Luke 17:20–21, Jesus says, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (NKJV). The context of Jesus’ statement is a question put to Him by His Pharisee detractors who had asked when the kingdom of God would come (verse 20).
Jesus’ answer was that the kingdom of God was not coming in the manner the Pharisees were expecting. The kingdom would not be inaugurated with spectacle or splendor; there would be no great and magnificent leader who staked out a geographical claim and routed the Romans; rather, the kingdom would come silently and unseen, much as leaven works in a batch of dough (see Matthew 13:33). In fact, Jesus says, the kingdom had already begun, right under the Pharisees’ noses. God was ruling in the hearts of some people, and the King Himself was standing among them, although the Pharisees were oblivious to that fact.
But what about translations of Biblical text? The New Testament was written in Greek. Was anything lost or misconstrued?
Various translations render the Greek of Luke 17:21 various ways. The phrase translated “within you” in the KJV and NKJV is translated as “in your midst” in the NIV, NASB, and NET; “among you” in the NLT and HCSB; and “in the midst of you” in the ESV. Earlier versions of the NIV had “within you” with a marginal note suggesting “among you.” There is obviously a difference between saying “the kingdom of God is within you” and “the kingdom of God is among you.”
There are three popular interpretations of Jesus’ words in Luke 17:21 that the kingdom of God is within you (or among you): 1) the kingdom of God is essentially inward, within man’s heart; 2) the kingdom is within your reach if you make the right choices; and 3) the kingdom of God is in your midst in the person and presence of Jesus. The best of these interpretations, it seems, is the third: Jesus was inaugurating the kingdom as He changed the hearts of men, one at a time.
For the time being, Christ’s kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). One day, however, the kingdom of God will be manifest on the earth (Isaiah 35:1), and Jesus Christ will rule a physical kingdom from David’s throne (Isaiah 9:7) with Jerusalem as His capital (Zechariah 8:3).
Where did God live (exist) before he created heaven (and earth)?
If God is not a physical being, He is not limited to the laws of physics or restricted by time. Christianity simply claims that God has always existed. That concept is as easily understood as the concept of infinity I suppose.
It's not unusual as human beings with our limited knowledge and understanding, that many find a need to have a frame of reference. But that limits our ability to comprehend reality. Scientists once believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Then it was thought that the Milky Way represented the entire universe.
As technology provides a means to look farther into space, we acquire a better understanding of what's out there. But we will forever have a limited frame of reference, which is unfortunate.
That's because we can't think outside the box as long as we are in it. We can only guess, and speculate, and dream up our thoughts and ideas. Even Einstein realized the limitations of our comprehension:
"I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." — Albert Einstein
During my near death experience when I was 19, the event occurring was so overwhelming and beyond my comprehension, I sensed my mind searching for a point of reference. My mind attempted to place the event in a context I might understand, but there are still unanswered questions. Although I don't cherry pick, deny, doubt or disavow what occurred. I believe it, because I experienced it ... even if I don't understand the totality.
There is a lot to be considered to understand our existence. Studying the physical laws of the universe only helps us begin to visualize obscure details of the unknown.
As humans, we have the intelligence to analyze our world and learn a lot about the laws of physics and how the universe works. However, the balance of our understanding is solely based on theory and interpretation.
Perhaps it's only natural to feel a need to know where we came from, as well as how and why we got here and from whom and where. But unfortunately, this knowledge is one that we may never acquire in it's entirety and of a comprehension beyond human understanding.
Sometimes ya just gotta have faith.
Heaven is the throne of God.
If looking for a physical postal address, you won't find it.
God doesn't have a social security number either.
So does God not also live within you? Or maybe lives among you?
In Luke 17:20–21, Jesus says, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (NKJV). The context of Jesus’ statement is a question put to Him by His Pharisee detractors who had asked when the kingdom of God would come (verse 20).
Jesus’ answer was that the kingdom of God was not coming in the manner the Pharisees were expecting. The kingdom would not be inaugurated with spectacle or splendor; there would be no great and magnificent leader who staked out a geographical claim and routed the Romans; rather, the kingdom would come silently and unseen, much as leaven works in a batch of dough (see Matthew 13:33). In fact, Jesus says, the kingdom had already begun, right under the Pharisees’ noses. God was ruling in the hearts of some people, and the King Himself was standing among them, although the Pharisees were oblivious to that fact.
But what about translations of Biblical text? The New Testament was written in Greek. Was anything lost or misconstrued?
Various translations render the Greek of Luke 17:21 various ways. The phrase translated “within you” in the KJV and NKJV is translated as “in your midst” in the NIV, NASB, and NET; “among you” in the NLT and HCSB; and “in the midst of you” in the ESV. Earlier versions of the NIV had “within you” with a marginal note suggesting “among you.” There is obviously a difference between saying “the kingdom of God is within you” and “the kingdom of God is among you.”
There are three popular interpretations of Jesus’ words in Luke 17:21 that the kingdom of God is within you (or among you): 1) the kingdom of God is essentially inward, within man’s heart; 2) the kingdom is within your reach if you make the right choices; and 3) the kingdom of God is in your midst in the person and presence of Jesus. The best of these interpretations, it seems, is the third: Jesus was inaugurating the kingdom as He changed the hearts of men, one at a time.
For the time being, Christ’s kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). One day, however, the kingdom of God will be manifest on the earth (Isaiah 35:1), and Jesus Christ will rule a physical kingdom from David’s throne (Isaiah 9:7) with Jerusalem as His capital (Zechariah 8:3).
Where did God live (exist) before he created heaven (and earth)?
If God is not a physical being, He is not limited to the laws of physics or restricted by time. Christianity simply claims that God has always existed. That concept is as easily understood as the concept of infinity I suppose.
It's not unusual as human beings with our limited knowledge and understanding, that many find a need to have a frame of reference. But that limits our ability to comprehend reality. Scientists once believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Then it was thought that the Milky Way represented the entire universe.
As technology provides a means to look farther into space, we acquire a better understanding of what's out there. But we will forever have a limited frame of reference, which is unfortunate.
That's because we can't think outside the box as long as we are in it. We can only guess, and speculate, and dream up our thoughts and ideas. Even Einstein realized the limitations of our comprehension:
"I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." — Albert Einstein
During my near death experience when I was 19, the event occurring was so overwhelming and beyond my comprehension, I sensed my mind searching for a point of reference. My mind attempted to place the event in a context I might understand, but there are still unanswered questions. Although I don't cherry pick, deny, doubt or disavow what occurred. I believe it, because I experienced it ... even if I don't understand the totality.
There is a lot to be considered to understand our existence. Studying the physical laws of the universe only helps us begin to visualize obscure details of the unknown.
As humans, we have the intelligence to analyze our world and learn a lot about the laws of physics and how the universe works. However, the balance of our understanding is solely based on theory and interpretation.
Perhaps it's only natural to feel a need to know where we came from, as well as how and why we got here and from whom and where. But unfortunately, this knowledge is one that we may never acquire in it's entirety and of a comprehension beyond human understanding.
Sometimes ya just gotta have faith.
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gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 82
There are many who disagree. They have, so to speak, taken Science as their god.
Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
- Location
- Central NY
If I told where god lives, you would not believe me. On that note since everyone has an opinion I will not waste my time persuading you different from what you already know.
When my time comes to a screeching halt
I think we are smart, we are just greedy and self consumed. Humans have a hard time projecting possibilities that can harm us, especially if it is not relevant to the here and now. People require acts of legislature to prohibit dumping trash in public areas, yet they know trash is toxic to the environment, yet they continue to pollute as long as they don't have to deal with it. Immediate gratification rather than preparing for the future of mankind.
When my time comes to a screeching halt
Naturally
Well-known Member
- Location
- Corner of Walk 'n Don't Walk
Our views of God, physics or anything and everything else ultimately depends on perspective and context.
Science will tell you that light travels faster than anything. But that is wrong.
No matter how fast light travels, it finds darkness has always gotten there first, and is waiting for it.
Science will tell you that light travels faster than anything. But that is wrong.
No matter how fast light travels, it finds darkness has always gotten there first, and is waiting for it.
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Joey
Member
later tonight I will watch a doco program called Wonders of the Sun - narrated by Dara O Briain in about 45mins time - it appears to be only two episodes in length. The first I watched a few weeks ago and found it mind blowing - not to say the least because scientists are in the process of building a large collection of housed machines in a "chernobyl" still structure in order to build a sun on earth?? . I share this here because many will believe that God created the universes and suns etc etc - well either they are just accidental or extremely extremely intelligent?
gruntlabor
Well-known Member
- Location
- Last Frontier, Age 82
'Light' and 'anything', meet entangled quantum particles.
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