Timewise 60+
Senior Member
Dave the length of your post demonstrates exactly why averages are problematic. Specific facts supported by actual trends is so much better...
Climate Change is in Turbo Mode.
- Thread starter Paco Dennis
- Start date
Lewkat
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey, USA
After listening to all the scientific mumbo jumbo and reading the many comments on this subject, I am astounded that no one seems to understand that this too shall pass. The earth's axis shifts, and we have an ice age, it shifts again, and we have a gigantic hole in the ozone layer, now we have had another shift, and we are in climate change. On and on over millions of years. All are beside themselves. The earth will eventually win out by destroying anything with its own resources in the long run. Not going to happen overnight, obviously. Do your best to keep it clean and calm down. Keep life simple, you all will live much longer that way.
Do I like this throwaway society? No, of course not. We, in the "old" days, reused almost everything and were better off for it. Laziness, greed, and political gains are definitely the order of the day here.
Do I like this throwaway society? No, of course not. We, in the "old" days, reused almost everything and were better off for it. Laziness, greed, and political gains are definitely the order of the day here.
Babs2u
Senior Member
Exxon Mobil predicted climate change.
Exxon scientists predicted global warming with 'shocking skill and accuracy,' Harvard researchers say
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
This viewpoint is important for its emphasis on long-term thinking, resilience, and sustainable living. However, it should be complemented with an understanding of the unique and urgent challenges posed by human-driven climate change, especially when considering the future of our grandchildren. Balancing historical context with proactive, science-based solutions is key to navigating the decades ahead.
JustDave
Well-known Member
I agree with you. I'm not sure how we ended up here, but for clarification, let me try this one more time. Averages, facts, whatever. The record temperature in East St. Louis on one day in 1954 is no doubt fact, probably indisputable, although I haven't bothered to look it up, because there is nothing in that fact to support or debunk climate change. The predictions of climate change don't say that East St. Louis should have broken it's record high by now or even in the year 2075. This sort of assumption is a misunderstanding of many climate deniers. They just think everyone is supposed to be 2 degrees warmer by now.
Babs2u
Senior Member
Good post, PD.
papa tiger
Well-known Member
If they weren't all flying all over the World burning 10,000,000 barrels of oil doing it I could say they were acting responsible. Nada.
Don't give a dam do they. There are aprox. 25,000 leased jets, not including big cargos. 5 miles or possibly to the gallon! haha
Speaker of the house didn't want that route cause had to refuel 1/2 way home, Wanted a bigger jet.
Of course it's don't do what I do lil person, do what I say! That pertly much off the cuff! Public / Private Aviation has to be grounded.
Of course locking humans at home has to be propylated. No need to go anymore. You got the smart phone. Container shipping has to be sunk. Diesel anything has to be junk yarded. etc and on and on. Still no fixing it! Couple hundred nukes would create a nuke winter. Now
that'll work.
Don't give a dam do they. There are aprox. 25,000 leased jets, not including big cargos. 5 miles or possibly to the gallon! haha
Speaker of the house didn't want that route cause had to refuel 1/2 way home, Wanted a bigger jet.
Of course it's don't do what I do lil person, do what I say! That pertly much off the cuff! Public / Private Aviation has to be grounded.
Of course locking humans at home has to be propylated. No need to go anymore. You got the smart phone. Container shipping has to be sunk. Diesel anything has to be junk yarded. etc and on and on. Still no fixing it! Couple hundred nukes would create a nuke winter. Now
that'll work.
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Brookswood
Senior Member
China puts nearly 1/3 of the carbon into the air. they burn cheap coal to produce the electricity needed to power all the electric cars they sell.
NotCompSavvy
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
I'm on the fence on this issue , granted no one could care less but the actual point I want to make is I can be bought .
I mention this just in case you or someone here runs for office as recall in a post you mention you are politically active so again yes my vote is up for sale .
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
the post uses sarcasm to attack perceived elitism and inaction but undermines its message with exaggerated stats, unverified claims, and impractical ideas. While it critiques valid issues (e.g., carbon inequality), its tone and inaccuracies detract from constructive debate.
NotCompSavvy
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
In the end if Climate change is caused by humans and putting that aside I subscribe to clean air , water the rest of the world at best might sign some agreement but they are not going to change one iota .the post uses sarcasm to attack perceived elitism and inaction but undermines its message with exaggerated stats, unverified claims, and impractical ideas. While it critiques valid issues (e.g., carbon inequality), its tone and inaccuracies detract from constructive debate.
Mexico was once a climate leader – now it's betting big on coal
This article is more than 4 years oldAs the climate crisis worsens, Andrés Manuel López Obrador plans to buy nearly 2m tons of thermal coal from small producers
In the past, Mexico has been a climate leader. It was the first developing country to deliver its climate action plan ahead of the Paris agreement, but such ambitions are now treated with crushing lack of interest by the government.
“The Paris agreement has zero relevance to anything they’re talking about in the electric sector right now,” said Jeremy Martin, vice-president for energy and sustainability at the Institute of the Americas.
Mexico was once a climate leader – now it's betting big on coal
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Mexico's coal pivot represents a regressive step that jeopardizes public health, economic resilience, and international standing, while neglecting the urgent need for sustainable energy transitions. This decision prioritizes short-term interests over long-term stability, contradicting both global climate imperatives and Mexico’s own legacy of environmental leadership.
NotCompSavvy
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
I hear you but the point is they simply could not go green as it was not efficient and so expensive .So like so many they said one thing and did another .
I understand where you are coming from but plenty of it is unrealistic as of now and not only will prices devour us with forced green policies but much is ineffective .
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
By working together—governments, businesses, communities, and international partners—we can create a balanced approach that addresses economic realities while advancing toward a sustainable energy future. The transition may be challenging, but with collaboration and innovation, it is achievable.
My first and last post on this thread:
We're all gonna die. Every one of us. Our children are gonna die. Every one of them. Our grandchildren are gonna die. Etcetera.
Getting wrapped around forces of nature that far outweigh anything that man can do illustrates nothing but arrogance.
Full stop.
We're all gonna die. Every one of us. Our children are gonna die. Every one of them. Our grandchildren are gonna die. Etcetera.
Getting wrapped around forces of nature that far outweigh anything that man can do illustrates nothing but arrogance.
Full stop.
spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
The Industrial Revolution was a period of significant technological and societal transformation, marked by the shift from agrarian and handicraft economies to ones dominated by industry and machine manufacturing, fundamentally changing how people lived and worked. This included iron production processes, the increasing use of water and steam power, the development of machine tools, and the rise of the mechanized factory system.
The beginning of the Industrial Revolution occurred in Great Britain around 1860. This marks the point in time that the human animal sowed the seeds of our own destruction.
The beginning of the Industrial Revolution occurred in Great Britain around 1860. This marks the point in time that the human animal sowed the seeds of our own destruction.
spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
Thank you for your service. With due respect, sir, the forces of humankind are destroying the planet and to claim otherwise is hubris. Left to their own, the forces of nature will achieve equilibrium.
NotCompSavvy
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
If I had hair on my head and over 6 feet I would be Tom Selleck from Magnum PI ( underrated show ) , point is we must live in reality and what you would like which is great is never going to happen .
USA and Europe will be only one's doing it rest of the world will promise a lot and just words .
Tazx
Member
- Location
- Europe via Canada.
Well, we are not overpopulated by any means. As you see in many countries pop undergrowth is becoming a problem. We are not having kids anymore, reproductive rates dropping, etc. Also many researchers have proved there is no such thing as over population. There is over consumption, hyperpopulation packing-putting too many people into cities overwhelming the infrastructure and so forth.
CC is just cyclical. What goes up, comes down. This has been talked about since early 1900's. Every few years there is a new scare.
They alter info by changing parameters. Taking temps in the core of the cities (cities are heat sinks), somehow they say the ocean levels are rising by 3 mm...LOL, how the hell are you measuring that? Ocean markers all over the world show nothing, but somehow they measure 3 mm in the sea!
Temps are on record as being in the 40's Celsius and even a few 50's in many places in the past. Just like -40 and -50.
Its a constant fear propaganda.
Tazx
Member
- Location
- Europe via Canada.
Yep and many years ago the great barrier reef in Aus was bleaching. Now its the healthiest its been in years. Things cycle. As everything does. You, animals, earth, seasons, temps etc.
Is the Great Barrier Reef making a comeback?
So what if the Florida reef is bleaching. It will return in its appropriate time.
In Aus no one did anything to the reef! It just cycled. 2016 it was dying and bleaching. Now record growing, no more bleaching. Why? There wasn't any govt work or rules set it place. No plan or tasking that turned it around. Its nature.
Quick story...my father as I mentioned before, worked in govt behind the scenes a lot. As he was an avid hunter he was friends with the ministers involved in Parks Canada, Hunting and Fisheries etc, they regulated hunting, study animal pops etc. Many years there would be a low pop of deer. They would restrict hunting licenses those years. Then many years there was an overpop of deer and issue more licenses.
There was no real reason for many of it. Some years a deer disease apparently, some years too much growth of their favorite food, so years too much snow and winter pops suffered. Larger bear and wolf pop some years, less in others. It was an ecosystem of nature that controls the pop of deer. Not man. Man just responded to the pop with restrictions, rules or expansion of such.
No tax was going to make a difference on pop of deer. Just like no carbon tax will do anything for climate.
We have all seen the stories of how pointless solar and wind is. It takes more carbon to make those products than they save in their life cycle.
Man needs to stop thinking we can control or direct earth in anyway at all. It is one giant place and we are but a small part of it. Yes we can pollute, destroy and damage our home, but if the climate, seas, land or air want to do something (cycles) there is nothing we are ever going to do about it.
Tazx
Member
- Location
- Europe via Canada.
Funny thing is, we used to live sustainable. If it wasn't for the big push to get us off the farms, we would have many of these issues we have today. As a child I remember how my Grand father lived on his farm. Water well, used oil lamps from his slaughtered animals (he had electricity connection but used sparingly), wood stove for heat, summer kitchen for cooking in summer, burning fallen trees, dead brush and underbrush, all food waste went back into the soil, free eggs, milk and meat from his animals. He relied on no one. Sold some produce used the money to buy what he needed or couldn't produce.
That was just 40 years ago. He was not polluting, mountains of garbage, factory farming, plastic bags, toxic air etc. He lived as close as ideal as you could.
Then everyone wanted to live in the 'big city', now most cities are trash and pollution makers. Too many people in a small place. Everything falls apart.
It won't be climate that destroys us, it will be the degradation of society. Crime out of control, health out of control, youth lost, no replacement for key career positions, tech destroying intelligence...So when people say we are doing all that and need something better-Well we had something way better, and we ruined that!
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Interesting, but this post describes a lifestyle that was sustainable on an individual level, it is not scalable to the global population. The world's population has grown significantly, and not everyone can live on a self-sufficient farm. The romanticized view overlooks the hardships and limitations of such a lifestyle, including lack of access to modern healthcare, education, and other services. Also, The transition from rural to urban living was driven by industrialization, which brought about significant advancements in technology, medicine, and quality of life for many people. While it has also led to environmental degradation, it is not accurate to blame urbanization alone for current issues without considering the broader historical and economic context.
The post simplifies complex issues like pollution, climate change, and societal degradation by attributing them solely to urbanization and the abandonment of rural lifestyles. These problems are systemic and require comprehensive, systemic solutions that address industrial practices, economic policies, and global cooperation. In fact it implies that returning to a past way of living is the solution, which dismisses the role of science, technology, and innovation in creating sustainable solutions for the future. Modern challenges require modern solutions, including renewable energy, sustainable agriculture, and circular economies. Also, The idealized past often overlooks issues of social justice and equity. Not everyone had access to the idyllic lifestyle described, and many faced significant hardships, discrimination, and inequality. Addressing current challenges must include considerations of equity and justice for all people.
Though the response highlights valuable aspects of sustainable living, it is inappropriate because it oversimplifies complex issues, romanticizes the past, and dismisses the need for modern, science-based solutions to address the urgent and interconnected challenges of climate change and societal degradation.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
And sometime everyone on earth will believe in a Christian God! Unlikely...
Brookswood
Senior Member
The best thing we can do in the USA is to stop spending billions to reduce our carbon output by a small amount. Instead spend the billions to develop low-cost solar and wind technology that is cheap enough that the smaller countries don’t have to build so many coal powered electric power plants.