Did God create the devil and if so why?

chic

chic

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In parochial school we were taught that God created all things and that included the devil. I can't remember the exact reasoning of this action but to Catholics it was supposed to make sense.. It never did to me. What are your thoughts on the subject? Did God create the devil? Why? :unsure:
 

God created an angel who through his own free will fell from grace. You never heard that story in Catholic school?

Catholicism was always emphasizing that all intelligent creatures have a free will.

Now you can get on with your life knowing that it's not worth over thinking.
 

Yeah, if you look into it there are several "castes" of angels and the more powerful levels have some pretty scary-powerful beings among them. Don't think of them as benign, most aren't something for a mortal human to witness much less communicate with.
 
Since god and the devil are products of religion they are both manmade and figments of consciousness. There is no god or heavenly being except within the regents of your mind. This can be proven first with doubt and logic, followed by objectivity and reason. Faith is an all encompassing excuse to believe in things that do not exist except within the minds that practice such notions. No one controls your thoughts and beliefs except you, therefore it is impossible to persuade of convince you any different than what you believe.

Believe anything as you will, it makes no difference to me. Because I am not you and you are not me.
 
We're human. If one commits a sin, say stealing money, then the stealer is a greedy thief. But of course, if the Devil coerced him into stealing, then the stealer was just led astray. No blame, no pain.
 
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I always wondered about the devil. It seemed like a nightmare scenario. I think I learned that in church teachings but do not remember all of the lessons. I haven't read the Bible, so I guess that is my answer.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
We're human. If one commits a sin, say stealing money, then the stealer is a greedy thief. But of course, if the Devil coerced him into stealing, then the stealer was just led astray. No blame, no pain.
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not true.
That is just an excuse for your own bad choices.

The devil can only tempt or deceive you, but ultimately, you have free will to choose your actions.
 
wasn't the devil considered biblically as one or the original angels who then fell from goodness and grace - I mean really fell. and wasn't he the guy who came and tempted or attempted to persuade Christ when he was fasting for 40 dys and nights in the desert?? - or have I got it all wrong??? strangely I was watching a u-tube doco today with a rabbi preaching who was describing the two sons of Abraham and their differing qualities which can today be detected in all humans on the planet - but that's another tale really?
 
There is nothing in Bible scripture stating God created angels, much less the Devil or so-called "bad angels". That is just more supposedly "inspired" dogma that denomination authorities added later. What scripture does tend to relate is "God" was part of a race of others, one might assume most likely was the same as the angels. In that sense "god" may have been the leader of the angels.

NASB20:
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.”

Or read the direct Hebrew text.

Genesis 1:26 Hebrew Text Analysis

So did "God' create "everything"? That is NOT in any scripture. In fact God didn't create the first humans either nor does the Genesis story of Adam & Eve actually anywhere state they were the first humans just that he made those two. Such was merely later assumed. In fact, scripture clearly indirectly states there were already other people and other places with people. But that didn't stop religious authorities from assuming so.

Gen 4:13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is too great to endure!
Gen 4:14 “Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and I will be hidden from Your face, and I will be a wanderer and a drifter on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
Gen 4:15 So the LORD said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him seven times as much.” And the LORD placed a mark on Cain, so that no one finding him would kill him.
Gen 4:16Then Cain left the presence of the LORD, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Of course today given science, we know there were already homo sapiens for hundreds of thousands of years before then because archeology is digging up their bones and tools.

The actual original beginning to Genesis recorded by Moses was probably at Genesis 2:4 where it doesn't say anything about all that nonsense from at Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning" creating everything in 7 days. Most likely according to scholars, that was added centuries later during the exiled Babylonian captivity because Babylonian science at that time was considered much more knowledgeable. They are also probably the one's that added all the world wide flood nonsense into Noah's Ark scripture that was originally likely just a local regional flood.

Much non-scriptural nonsense has been added to denominations since the Middle Ages after the dogma of Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Omnipotence arose where extremes of anything imaginable even magic is possible without limit. There is nothing beyond vague use of the Hebrew term for "Almighty" that in no way logically implies unlimited. And Bible scripture itself is not "inerrant" that we now know given the Internet where we can read writings that have been hidden from the masses, most scholars themselves over centuries didn't believe such. So NO, we don't know if god created Satan or if he did not, because scripture does not state that while we now know much supposed inspired dogma of denominations has from science now very embarrassing to churches, proven to be false.

Despite the above, this science person is still a believer and church goer because "God" doesn't need to be some entity with unlimited powers to save at least some of us from otherwise eternal mortal ending of existence. What needs to be possible is saving the electromagnetic brain wave fields, something an ancient UIE race would have enormous reasons to create and hopefully have solved. All the synoptic gospel scriptures tend to relate that was possible because otherwise long dead and gone Moses and Elijah were seen by apostles talking with Jesus within Luke 9:28-36.

If modern, too lazy, people actually bother to read the Bible and think for themselves what scholars actually have been relating instead of absorbing what well-intentioned church authorities thought they have been inspired to understand, all Christian religions would look very different.
 
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There is no God, there is no devil. There is earth, people, animals and all live on the earth at the same time. I am a scientist and believe that man evolved over time. I believe there are demons.
 
There are also fictional takes on the whole thing:

“Then your Airlia had more discipline,” Arcturus said. He lowered his voice. “The Nagil are the progeny of the Airlia with human women. Very secretive on their part. Because it’s illegal for Airlia to consort with human outside of authorized parameters. But it is possible and what is possible will inevitably happen. Especially when one is considered a god. And bored with a duty that stretches millennia. What’s ironic is that this is Horus and Anubis’s watch and they probably think they are the only ones who gave in to temptation. But the Airlia who now sleep, when it was their turn, they did the same. Thus, there are many more Nagil than the Airlia suspect.​
 
Why do we always ask 'How could a God create so much misery, starvation...death, etc.'

But we never ask the opposite.

'How could the Devil allow me to enjoy this beautiful sunset....the birth of my child...etc.'

Funny d'at!
 
The concepts of "good and evil" have always existed in some form. It's just the dualistic nature of life (Life and death, pain and pleasure, health and sickness, wealth and poverty, good and bad). Humans encountered natural disasters (earthquakes, floods), wars with pillage and rape, disease, plagues, and infant mortality, man-made evil such as murders and theft, and of course, death.

As the ancients constructed their religious systems, the existence of "evil" had to be explained and rationalized, and I think blame transfer had something to do with it. The personification of a counter-god just made sense to many. If God was accredited with good things, then some other force had to be blamed for things they didn't want to lay at God's doorstep.

As with many things, the concept of the devil (Satan) just evolved and took it's place in religion. In folklore, it took on an image with red fiery eyes, horns, tail, and a pitchfork. I suppose the image was meant to steer people away from any connection with God's adversary. In time, I think it began to be used as a control tactic where this evil being lived in a domain of fire and torment, and if you didn't get in line, that's where you would end up. That's my summation anyway.
 
chic said:
In parochial school we were taught that God created all things and that included the devil. I can't remember the exact reasoning of this action but to Catholics it was supposed to make sense.. It never did to me. What are your thoughts on the subject? Did God create the devil? Why? :unsure:
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A long time ago I would have been interested in questions such as this. Then one day, I cannot remember the circumstances but I suspect that I might have been praying, I received an unexpected message.

The words that I remember to this day were. "That is the wrong question. The right question is 'Who is my neighbour?'".

For those who don't recognise the quote, it is the prelude to the parable of the Good Samaritan.

It is now my practice to concentrate on the teachings of Jesus and to try to follow them to the best of my ability. I don't give the devil a second thought. I have too few years left to worry about esoteric ideas, and I find my happiness by simply treating my fellow humans as I would want to be treated. I have joined the family of mankind and IMO this is a necessary condition for bringing the Kingdom of Heaven alive here on Earth.
 
well all of that didn't get us very far along the yellow brick road heh?? I'm reminded of that Shakespearian comment "

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" mean?​


Macbeth is feeling that life is absurd and that nothing has any purpose or meaning. Everything he did to become king will soon be erased by his story coming to an end.

ps: I do include myself in all of this of course - fully immersed?
 

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