God, or not? A Christian Discussion

I’ve thought at times that when we ask God/Jesus to come into our life/heart to be our Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit becomes our life’s guide within us. It awakens us to what is right and what is wrong that we had never before realized. Say a time comes when, unthinking, we start to cross a road as a truck is barreling down it, and we get this strong thought/nudging from within, ‘don’t cross’, and we decide not to. Saved by the Holy Spirit’s nudging? If we’ve not the Holy Spirit within to guide us, stop our unthinking/wrongful acts? Then what? Our choice.
 
Adam was the head of the human race right? God was his father right? He was "SON" right? Everyone after him was in the same family right?

not agreed necessarily - God was Adams creator and the creator of Eve - not necessarily their father? just a mute point perhaps - semantics?? splitting infinity??

and was the Holy Trinity in existence in the beginning or came later - and if Adam was the son of God then his brother was Jesus as he must be ours also -???
 
Day 12
@Elsie above provides a good place to continue. We often thank God when something amazing like surviving possible accidents or death occurs. And we pray, of course, that God protects us from bad things. We can see, feel and hear God clearly in the good times. However, bad things often happen to us whether we like it or not. And often, no matter how hard you pray, the suffering is not removed. It may even get worse. We continue to be sick and suffer (from injustice, bad luck, etc.). Some of God’s people in the Bible may live rather charmed lives but not every one of them. There are wars and famines, they are enslaved, etc.

There are many books written for Christians about suffering. One of the best writers I have found is Philip Yancey. He tackles the topic with empathy and respect. Particularly in his books, Disappointment with God, Where is God when it hurts, and many others. C.S. Lewis is another good author.

There are two key themes. The first is that God is there with us in our suffering. This is difficult to understand. More often than not, we feel the opposite, that God is not there. That's why we're suffering. If God were there, we wouldn't be suffering.

But even Jesus suffered. In fact, Jesus suffered more than anyone else. What happened? Jesus even cried out, in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34:
  • Matthew 27:46 (NIV):
    "About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?' (which means 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?')."
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Where is God when we're suffering? The clue is in the Beatitudes. When we're suffering, we're faced with a choice: to continue trusting in God, or to turn away from Him. God is in the "small still voice" of good in the midst of all the noise of pain and suffering. And what we need to do is to follow that small still voice. If we don't give up and persevere, like in the case of Job, God rewards you after that. Suffering is not purposeful in the sense that it has meaning for us. But God is faithful and rewards you if you remain faithful to Him through your suffering.

Many saints in the Bible and outside the Bible suffer. Many great people, Christians or not, suffered and yet went on to achieve great things. Often as a direct outcome of their suffering.

We cannot expect to understand suffering. We are only asked to hang on to God through the suffering. And that takes us to the second theme: suffering is good for us. In Romans 5:3–4, Paul writes, "We also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope."
 
smiley said:
don't human businesses ultimately all fail??
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That's new, I've never hear of human businesses. Care to explain?

For those that believe there is a God or there isn't what difference does it make to either other than a topic to in various ways?
 
Boon
Boon54 said:
Day 12
@Elsie above provides a good place to continue. We often thank God when something amazing like surviving possible accidents or death occurs. And we pray, of course, that God protects us from bad things. We can see, feel and hear God clearly in the good times. However, bad things often happen to us whether we like it or not.😒 And often, no matter how hard you pray, the suffering is not removed. It may even get worse. We continue to be sick and suffer (from injustice, bad luck, etc.). Some of God’s people in the Bible may live rather charmed lives but not every one of them. There are wars and famines, they are enslaved, etc.

There are many books written for Christians about suffering. One of the best writers I have found is Philip Yancey. He tackles the topic with empathy and respect. Particularly in his books, Disappointment with God, Where is God when it hurts, and many others. C.S. Lewis is another good author.

There are two key themes. The first is that God is there with us in our suffering. This is difficult to understand. More often than not, we feel the opposite, that God is not there. That's why we're suffering. If God were there, we wouldn't be suffering.

But even Jesus suffered. In fact, Jesus suffered more than anyone else. What happened? Jesus even cried out, in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34:
  • Matthew 27:46 (NIV):
Where is God when we're suffering? The clue is in the Beatitudes. When we're suffering, we're faced with a choice: to continue trusting in God, or to turn away from Him. God is in the "small still voice" of good in the midst of all the noise of pain and suffering. And what we need to do is to follow that small still voice. If we don't give up and persevere, like in the case of Job, God rewards you after that. Suffering is not purposeful in the sense that it has meaning for us. But God is faithful and rewards you if you remain faithful to Him through your suffering.

Many saints in the Bible and outside the Bible suffer. Many great people, Christians or not, suffered and yet went on to achieve great things. Often as a direct outcome of their suffering.

We cannot expect to understand suffering. We are only asked to hang on to God through the suffering. And that takes us to the second theme: suffering is good for us. In Romans 5:3–4, Paul writes, "We also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope."
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Boon, there have been times I've pleaded with God to take away an awful anxiety causing physical breathing problem. It--fear with the stuffiness, was keeping me from the sleep I very much needed. After some time passed, the stuffiness cleared, and I thanked God. But then, not much time later, it returned, & I felt I'd been tricked. :unsure: Of course I hadn't been, for God knew the stuffiness would eventually clear up on its own--and it did. I had been so disturbed by my scary breathing misery I had wanted God to heal me right then and there!

Well, the good thing about that breathing problem being scary, it got me turning to God, even though it seemed he did not seem to be listening. I'm terribly dismayed that God allows the horrors we humans commit, (some he stops or prevents) but having given us all, worldwide, the freedom to make our own way, make our own choices, He can't rightly go back on his Word and turn to treating us like puppets. When I had a small cancer in my breast' in 2008, I was not the least bit afraid of having it, for some unknown reason. (Surgery got rid up it) It was as though something within me, (Holy Spirit?), told me I would be fine. Who knows?
 
Didn't God once say ? and I resort to paraphrases: ""look guys I created you but now I give you free reign - go your own way - here's a little 'guide to good living' booklet that's free to peruse and use but non-compulsory"? and then a few eons later things seemed to be getting much worst ? - even God gets it wrong sometimes?? - so he decided to send down the young boyo to help out - kick start a new revival - how's it goin now boys and girls??
 
smiley said:
Didn't God once say ? and I resort to paraphrases: ""look guys I created you but now I give you free reign - go your own way - here's a little 'guide to good living' booklet that's free to peruse and use but non-compulsory"? and then a few eons later things seemed to be getting much worst ? - even God gets it wrong sometimes?? - so he decided to send down the young boyo to help out - kick start a new revival - how's it goin now boys and girls??
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That question brings up questions.
This was described in the bible.
  • The Earth's Corruption:
    The story begins with God seeing that humanity was deeply corrupted and decided to destroy them.


    • Noah's Obedience:
      However, God found Noah to be righteous, and instructed him to build an ark, a large boat, and take his family and pairs of every animal species aboard.
    • The Flood:
      When the ark was complete, Noah and his family entered, along with the animals, and God closed the door. Then, it rained for 40 days and nights, and the water flooded the entire earth, covering even the highest mountains.
    That obviously didn't work so supposedly a son was born to guide mankind. That turned out to be the son nailed to a cross asking.
    The scripture where Jesus cries out, "Why have you forsaken me?" is found in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34. This quote, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" is a direct reference to Psalm 22:
  • Is freedom of choice working so well that all humans are headed to heaven?
  • Are there no righteous people?
  • Is mankind far better now & no where near the corruption in biblical times?



 
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BlueDragonfly said:
Always interesting how the unbelievers feel the need to crack jokes and try to tear down faith or the person.
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yea and some where jeering at his son on the cross saying " let's see ya save yaself now" or words to that effect - and wot was the result? there is a no-believers answer and a believers answer - ya gotta choice?
 
Day 13
Bless you, dear @Elsie for sharing your journey. And indeed, this is what living with God is supposed to be like. Non-believers might say you are just deluding yourself, but it's something that has been researched and found to be real.

What I'm saying is this: believing that everything will be alright helps to make it so. Buddhism has an interesting practice around this. I like the free course they have on Mindfulness Meditation based on a program from the University of Massachusetts Medical School called Palouse Mindfulness. In week 5, they teach you to meditate while re-visiting one of the experiences that gave you the most pain. The idea is to sit with the experience and come to terms with it.

You see, the problem is often not as bad as we make it out to be. Finding that confidence that things will be alright helps a lot towards making things alright, if not better. There are lots of recorded cases of "miracle" healing and it often happens when the patient strongly believes it. We know about the Placebo effect, and although it sounds like a con job, it works. Of course, I'm not suggesting that we don't go and see the doctor, take your medicines, etc. What I'm pointing out is that the problem is not the tragedies that happen to us but our responses to it.

For a Christian then, what God is saying is that He loves you and He wants you well and healthy. Even though you may be undergoing all kinds of trials and tribulations, God will see you through them. And if not, He is waiting for you in Heaven. Our role is simply not to worry and trust Him.

What this means is that the things we're worrying about is not the problem we should be worrying about. Keep your faith in God, be like a child who's sick but trust their parents to make it well, and not only will you be able to manage your problems better but you will be stronger and better able to love one another.

Perhaps I could end with another passage from the Bible:
Isaiah 40:31 (ESV):
"But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint."

(In case you're wondering, if you're sick, what you need to do is to get all the help you can. Listen to your doctors, do your own research, get alternative advice and do everything you can to get better. Everything includes praying and hoping. Believing in God means seeing that all these things are there to help you get better, that if you believe you will get better, the chances are better for you, and if all else fails, heaven awaits you.)
 
Day 14
Oh dear. Only 1 reply since the last entry. Am I sharing too simple a view? Is this too boring? I'm sorry if it is. @Mitch86's reply is apt. What I'm sharing may seem like a simplistic and childish view of Christianity. But Jesus did say, "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven," (Matthew 18:3)

One of the best selling genre in literature today are books on self-help. And I've read very many of them. Now that I've hit 70, I look back and feel that I've not accomplished much with my life. There is a huge sense of loss, almost failure. I went into depression a few years back and is currently still trying to find my way out of it. Sometimes, it's difficult to even get out of bed.

What I've found is that the books on self-help orbit around some common themes. This include more philosophical and/or religious books - Buddhism, Stoicism, Existentialism, etc. Several of the self-help books are written by eminent academics in their field.

The themes are paradoxical if you don't believe in God:
1. You are encouraged to find a purpose in your life. Since there is no assumption of God, you can decide on your purpose. It doesn't matter as long as it matters to you.
2. Gratitude has been found to be important. Keep a gratitude journal and regularly remind yourself how good your life is. Especially when you're feeling low.
3. Go for your dreams. Whatever you can imagine will happen. You just have to believe it and the universe will respond to it. Think positively.
4. Find other people who share your dream and support you.
5. Don't worry. Focus on the present and the rest will fall in place.
6. Meditate. Sit down quietly and focus on your breathing. It will help to calm your brain and help you to focus and find peace and fulfilment.
7. Learn to manage your emotions. Especially those emotions that throw you off. Things are often not as bad as you think they are but you need to acknowledge those bad feelings and move on.
8. Believe in yourself. You are more than you think you are. You are worthy of love and you are a great person.

The list may be a bit longer, like believing in the stars and that your fate is predetermined by the date of your birth. The books may cover one or more of these topics but they come back to the same themes. Many promise a one shot solution but I have not found them to be effective for me. At the end of the day, it was simpler, like @Mitch86, to just believe that God loves me.
 
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It has been an interesting thread to follow and read, @Boon54 . I don't comment much, though I am a whosoever, because it would likely get your thread hijacked and going down a rabbit hole. Not in the mood to chat with TweedleDee & TweedleDum, the Hatter is mad, Cheshire cat is smug and Absolem is so far gone.... well, best not to engage him.
 
Day 15
Thank you, @Elsie and @BlueDragonfly, for encouraging me. My wife tells me that I overthink. Especially about things that are common sensical to her. She's right of course, lol.

Writing about it has been therapeutic for me. And not getting adverse responses has been reassuring, lol.

The thing I found most reassuring after becoming a Christian is to find that God is God of all. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not.

Many people complain that God doesn't speak to them nor comfort them when tragedy happens. Even C.S. Lewis said, "But go to Him when your need is desperate, when all other help is vain, and what do you find? A door slammed in your face, and a sound of bolting and double bolting on the inside. After that, silence."

Even in the Bible, Job cried out for God to show Himself and explain why he is suffering. God did appear but challenges Job instead. Who is he to question God? And Job was satisfied with that. I was not. It seemed like a really stupid ending to such an important question.

I'm beginning to understand that the feelings we go through when we suffer are evidence of God's presence. If we were evil, we wouldn't feel the pain so badly. Why would we care? If there's no God, then pain and disease is just part of life. Why moan and groan about it? Our pain is in a sense God's pain. And He wants us to hold on to that pain and keep the softness in our hearts that allowed us to feel that pain. He wants us to acknowledge the pain and do something about it.

Many people reach out to comfort each other when we suffer and there are many stories here where old people like us are comforted and cared for by our loved ones, and of aged seniors caring for others too. Others go further and become doctors, nurses, carers, etc. Mother Theresa reached out to the people in the slums of Calcutta. And she felt this "silence" of God more than anyone else. This is God in action. To me, this is one of the greatest proof that God exists.
 
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BlueDragonfly said:
It has been an interesting thread to follow and read, @Boon54 . I don't comment much, though I am a whosoever, because it would likely get your thread hijacked and going down a rabbit hole. Not in the mood to chat with TweedleDee & TweedleDum, the Hatter is mad, Cheshire cat is smug and Absolem is so far gone.... well, best not to engage him.
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Thank you, Blue. Fortunately, I stayed on this side of the rabbit hole and haven't met any of those "mad" people. You're right, best not to engage.
 
I am surprised religion is such a hot topic here. Why so?
Does it make a difference in your life whether it is God's word or tall tales and ancient rules and advice?
 

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