God, or not? A Christian Discussion

Victor said:
I am surprised religion is such a hot topic here. Why so?
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Possibly because many of us are living in the final chapters of life. Also,our faith is very important to believers.
Victor said:
Does it make a difference in your life whether it is God's word or tall tales and ancient rules and advice?
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Yes, it does. :)
 

Boon54 said:
Day 15
My wife tells me that I overthink. Especially about things that are common sensical to her. She's right of course, lol. Writing about it has been therapeutic for me. And not getting adverse responses has been reassuring, lol
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Just because members don't choose to bother responding to your inputs doesn't mean they are accepting some of your statements nor as strongly as you pose them. Many folks have wisely learned to refrain from trying to talk about religious or political subjects. You do seem to lack relative balance in some statements that are stated rigidly. But you searching for understanding, do at least, ask questions for facets you have not yet formed set opinions on.

As someone that also tends to post online more verbosely because I can, there are plenty of people in this era that cannot read more than a sentence or three without escaping elsewhere. And in like matter, such reflects in their own terse posts that are rarely more than one liners usually with emotional overtones.

And to be clear again, I reject the whole god micromanaging narratives that are not reflected clearly by actual scripture but rather just Middle Ages OOO self-serving denominational dogma.
 

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Victor said:
I am surprised religion is such a hot topic here. Why so?
Does it make a difference in your life whether it is God's word or tall tales and ancient rules and advice?
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Yes, it does make a difference. There are Theists, Atheists, and Agnostics. All three have one thing in common: They want to know the meaning of life. If any of them say it is not true then they are not being honest. So yes, it does make a difference to each and every one of us because if we eventualy learn the meaning of life we will all be deeply affected by it. 🤓
 
Inept said:
Yes, it does make a difference. There are Theists, Atheists, and Agnostics. All three have one thing in common: They want to know the meaning of life. If any of them say it is not true then they are not being honest. So yes, it does make a difference to each and every one of us because if we eventualy learn the meaning of life we will all be deeply affected by it. 🤓
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Agreed. In fact, isn't it about the fundamental question? What are we? How did we get here? What is life for?

I'd imagine most people have asked these questions. In past times, religions have helped society gel, set boundaries, rules, expectations. It was a control mechanism that was tied to a very limited understanding of the world and how it works, and what was in the skies, and the atoms that make up all things. That said, it provided answers that people found, and find, credible.

Atheist or not, most of us would love to know the answers to these things, I think.
 
VaughanJB said:
Agreed. In fact, isn't it about the fundamental question? What are we? How did we get here? What is life for?

I'd imagine most people have asked these questions. In past times, religions have helped society gel, set boundaries, rules, expectations. It was a control mechanism that was tied to a very limited understanding of the world and how it works, and what was in the skies, and the atoms that make up all things. That said, it provided answers that people found, and find, credible.

Atheist or not, most of us would love to know the answers to these things, I think.
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Are my "answers" any good?
 
Boon54 said:
Are my "answers" any good?
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Well, that would depend on what "good" means.

The Bible, as such, is not, alone, convincing. So quoting from the Bible, personally, isn't convincing. If I accept the New Testament, then I feel I must accept all of the Old Testament, and there's a whole lot of horror in the OT.

So personally, does your belief and quotes sway me? No. Not only as they (forgive me if I'm off base here) based on the writings in the Bible, but they're largely part of a global case of hearsay. We don't know who wrote the books in the New Testament. And the Old Testament, and its horrors are mostly brushed under the carpet. Except in specific cases, such as the Ten Commandments. It's obvious cherry picking.

Not to mention, nature, as in natural selection, is so simple yet elegant. I can only go with that. I'm a branch of ape.
 
Day 16
Thank you everyone for the lively responses above. I'm pleased to read all your responses. According to the Bible, in the Old Testament, God isn't an "old man" living in heaven. God is a lot more than that.

God, according to the Bible, is the creator of the universe, including us. Although He has human characteristics when He talks to us, He is not human. Indeed, the Jews in the Bible were not even allowed to say His name. God is referred to by several different names in the original Hebrew:
  • YHWH (יהוה) – Often rendered as “the LORD” in English Bibles. This name, revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14 (“I AM WHO I AM”), signifies God’s self-existence and unchanging nature.
  • Elohim (אֱלֹהִים) – A general Semitic word for God, used from Genesis 1:1 onwards. It denotes power and majesty.
  • El Shaddai (אֵל שַׁדַּי) – "God Almighty."
  • Adonai (אֲדֹנָי) – "Lord" or "Master," often used as a reverent substitute for YHWH.
  • El Elyon (אֵל עֶלְיוֹן) – "God Most High."
  • El Roi (אֵל רֳאִי) – "The God Who Sees Me" (Genesis 16:13).
These "names" are not names as much as titles. It's like Christians calling God "My Lord".

God is spirit. In a sense, we are spirits too. Our experience of life is a spiritual experience and when we die, the only way we can describe it is that our spirit has left its body. Medical science identifies death by the lack of brain activity. But that is simply the clearest indicator biologically that the spirit has left the body and is not coming back. If a patient were to somehow recover after brain death, then we will have to find another way to identify death.

God is beyond understanding. So, any attempt to describe Him is immediately an approximation at best. So, when the Buddhists talk about Dhamma, or Buddha, or other forms or aspects of ultimate reality, they are pointing to the same "great beyond" that we call God. The Greeks believe in Logos, which is best translated as Reason. Logos is the root word for words like biology, psychology, sociology, and most significantly, logic. When the Bible says in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.", John is basically saying that God is not human but the logic behind existence.

You will sense by now that the Biblical God cannot be defined or described in any way. He is Himself (YHWH (יהוה) – “I AM WHO I AM”). So, when we quarrel about which God, or one God vs many gods, or whether God exists, we are just quarrelling over our own understanding of God. He is both what we think He is and greater than that. To imagine God as one God is to put our limited understanding on an unlimited being.

The reason why in the Bible, God kept telling His people not to worship other gods is the same reason why Jesus told us not to worship money. Anything that draws you away from the Natural Law and living life as you should is the wrong "God". It is so even today. Those of us who are somehow distracted by various activities that prevent us from living good lives and being the best we can be are worshipping the wrong God.

It's not about which God you believe, it's about living life as you should. And the reason why you should live life this way - love God and love one another - is because God exists. If you believe that life is precious, the universe is amazing and wonderful, that we should be good to one another, you are believing in God. If your heart is filled with love, and you are thankful to be alive, you are filled with God's love and praising God. He is pleased with you and blesses you.

The challenge is not just to live life as best we can and be the best people we can be, it is to do it even when the going is hard, even when we fail or fall sick, even when people around us are not helpful but dishonest, even when we think all else is lost. When those times come, hang on and turn to God.

And as we face our final years, wondering if we have done our best, whether we are good enough, if you are wondering, the answer is yes, you have. You don't have to be perfect, you can make mistakes along the way. It's all OK. God is with you, He has always been with you and He is waiting for you.
 
Mitch86 said:
If Heaven really existed and God took all of us there at death, Heaven would now contain trillions of residents. What kind of place could hold so many human beings?

I prefer to think we are created by a sperm cell merging with an egg cell. At death we simply cease to exist totally.
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Not to mention, neanderthals mingling with modern man. :D

Imagine. We only need to go back 500 years, where we couldn't even understand a common language (English). So I guess we pass to a "heaven" where we're understood?
 
VaughanJB said:
Not to mention, neanderthals mingling with modern man. :D

Imagine. We only need to go back 500 years, where we couldn't even understand a common language (English). So I guess we pass to a "heaven" where we're understood?
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I'm not sure Neanderthals go to Heaven. Maybe they do. I'm just not sure of the rules. As for common language, everyone has the same communication device used in Star Trek that automatically translates every language into English. Anyone who doesn't speak English can still go Heaven, but they have to spend three years in a reeducation camp before they're free do walk around and mingle. Currently, you can carry fire arms, but it's a contentious issue that no one agrees on.
 
Mitch86 said:
If Heaven really existed and God took all of us there at death, Heaven would now contain trillions of residents. What kind of place could hold so many human beings?

I prefer to think we are created by a sperm cell merging with an egg cell. At death we simply cease to exist totally.
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I used to think that too. All good.
 
VaughanJB said:
Well, that would depend on what "good" means.

The Bible, as such, is not, alone, convincing. So quoting from the Bible, personally, isn't convincing. If I accept the New Testament, then I feel I must accept all of the Old Testament, and there's a whole lot of horror in the OT.

So personally, does your belief and quotes sway me? No. Not only as they (forgive me if I'm off base here) based on the writings in the Bible, but they're largely part of a global case of hearsay. We don't know who wrote the books in the New Testament. And the Old Testament, and its horrors are mostly brushed under the carpet. Except in specific cases, such as the Ten Commandments. It's obvious cherry picking.

Not to mention, nature, as in natural selection, is so simple yet elegant. I can only go with that. I'm a branch of ape.
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That's good too. I'm not professing that what I'm saying is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I'm sharing my perspective. I really appreciate hearing yours.
 
David777 said:
Just because members don't choose to bother responding to your inputs doesn't mean they are accepting some of your statements .....
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Belief (or faith) is a personal thing. I am an Agnostic, consequently I have no faith in either Theism or Atheism. There you are – I have just told you everything there is to know about my view on existence. Do you believe in God? It’s no problem for me. Are you an Atheist? It’s no problem for me. Accepting your view isn’t necessary for me to respect you and I am certainly not going to criticize you or your faith. So far, you might be right or you might be wrong so I see no point in alienating you. If you try to shove your belief down my throat, however, then that’s another story. Let’s keep it clean and simple. “Responding to others input” is optional.
 
Day 17
@Inept brought up an important point. Yes, our beliefs are personal. And since all of us see and experience life differently, none of us can claim to know the full absolute truth. No matter how hard we try, our views of the world around us and what it means is based on our limited experiences, our limited minds and our limited ability to explain ourselves.

I too used to be an agnostic and it's a very good position to be in. I wasn't afraid to die. I'm still not. I'm more afraid of suffering and harm. We all have to die. We don't really know what happens, if anything, after that. It is what it is. Like @Inept, I have no quarrel with anyone and see no point in thinking about it, let alone worrying over it.

For some reason, though, I was drawn to look into the existence of God. At the time, I was going through a difficult patch and someone suggested, why not ask God to grant your wishes. He told me about his experiences where God came to his rescue when he needed some money. At his greatest time of need, he prayed for a solution, and lo and behold, he found the exact sum he needed in an envelope slipped under his door the next day.

Unfortunately, lol, it never happened to me that way. Instead, God led me to dig deep into Christianity and see Him and the Bible in a different way. What do I mean when I said that "God led me"? I mean that the curiosity of my mind, and some events that happened consequently, felt like someone was leading me along a certain path.

Of course, this is my interpretation of what happened. Some of you may say that it's fortuitous whilst others may say that you see what you want to see which leads you where you want to go.

I'm sure your lives are no different. Very few of us have full control of our lives. Things happen and we may think we're acting independently, but actually, our choices are often limited. Almost all the important events in our lives are beyond our control - our birth, our parents and family, etc. Those of you who meditate know that even our thoughts are not really under our control.

And yet, we need to have a moral compass. We can act in ways that are harmful. We can also act in ways that are helpful. When we get depressed or sick, there are ways we can help ourselves to get better.

I pray to God and I see in my life ways by which I can make sense of it. I trust in God that even though I may not live up to expectations, He looks down on me and understands. This is one of the most significant surprises. I used to be afraid of the fact that God sees everything and like most people, I wanted to hide my shameful and naughty acts. I was worried that God may know what I'm thinking about sometimes. But now, I'm glad that God can see how hard I've tried and understand that I don't mean to harm anyone.

So, is God simply my imagination? A way by which I make sense of my life? Absolutely. But it feels real to me. He feels real to me. And this is as far as anyone can claim about truth. All our realities are ours, unique to us. No matter how you express it, it's just one way of interpreting what you experienced, your reality. My reality, even when we're sharing the same experience, is different from yours.

If you believe in God, and realise that your belief is your understanding of the universe, no matter how true you think it is, it is still only one interpretation of reality. What this means is that whether or not you believe in God is not a question about reality but a statement of your belief. It doesn't mean that your interpretation is wrong. It simply means that it may not be the reality that other people experience. It cannot be.

Interestingly, my reading of the Bible supports this viewpoint. To a large extent, we need to worship God because He is our moral compass. I find my strongest compass in Jesus Christ. So, I'm a Christian whether I like it or not. Fortunately, I found a Christian community who practices Christianity the way I do, with open arms and appreciation of other faiths. They see everyone as children of God and they try to "spread Christianity" by acts of love, not evangelism.

Thank God.
 
Boon54 said:
Day 17
@Inept brought up an important point. Yes, our beliefs are personal. And since all of us see and experience life differently, none of us can claim to know the full absolute truth. No matter how hard we try, our views of the world around us and what it means is based on our limited experiences, our limited minds and our limited ability to explain ourselves.

I too used to be an agnostic and it's a very good position to be in. I wasn't afraid to die. I'm still not. I'm more afraid of suffering and harm. We all have to die. We don't really know what happens, if anything, after that. It is what it is. Like @Inept, I have no quarrel with anyone and see no point in thinking about it, let alone worrying over it.

For some reason, though, I was drawn to look into the existence of God. At the time, I was going through a difficult patch and someone suggested, why not ask God to grant your wishes. He told me about his experiences where God came to his rescue when he needed some money. At his greatest time of need, he prayed for a solution, and lo and behold, he found the exact sum he needed in an envelope slipped under his door the next day.

Unfortunately, lol, it never happened to me that way. Instead, God led me to dig deep into Christianity and see Him and the Bible in a different way. What do I mean when I said that "God led me"? I mean that the curiosity of my mind, and some events that happened consequently, felt like someone was leading me along a certain path.

Of course, this is my interpretation of what happened. Some of you may say that it's fortuitous whilst others may say that you see what you want to see which leads you where you want to go.

I'm sure your lives are no different. Very few of us have full control of our lives. Things happen and we may think we're acting independently, but actually, our choices are often limited. Almost all the important events in our lives are beyond our control - our birth, our parents and family, etc. Those of you who meditate know that even our thoughts are not really under our control.

And yet, we need to have a moral compass. We can act in ways that are harmful. We can also act in ways that are helpful. When we get depressed or sick, there are ways we can help ourselves to get better.

I pray to God and I see in my life ways by which I can make sense of it. I trust in God that even though I may not live up to expectations, He looks down on me and understands. This is one of the most significant surprises. I used to be afraid of the fact that God sees everything and like most people, I wanted to hide my shameful and naughty acts. I was worried that God may know what I'm thinking about sometimes. But now, I'm glad that God can see how hard I've tried and understand that I don't mean to harm anyone.

So, is God simply my imagination? A way by which I make sense of my life? Absolutely. But it feels real to me. He feels real to me. And this is as far as anyone can claim about truth. All our realities are ours, unique to us. No matter how you express it, it's just one way of interpreting what you experienced, your reality. My reality, even when we're sharing the same experience, is different from yours.

If you believe in God, and realise that your belief is your understanding of the universe, no matter how true you think it is, it is still only one interpretation of reality. What this means is that whether or not you believe in God is not a question about reality but a statement of your belief. It doesn't mean that your interpretation is wrong. It simply means that it may not be the reality that other people experience. It cannot be.

Interestingly, my reading of the Bible supports this viewpoint. To a large extent, we need to worship God because He is our moral compass. I find my strongest compass in Jesus Christ. So, I'm a Christian whether I like it or not. Fortunately, I found a Christian community who practices Christianity the way I do, with open arms and appreciation of other faiths. They see everyone as children of God and they try to "spread Christianity" by acts of love, not evangelism.

Thank God.
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Very well expressed. :) I plan on sharing this. 🌷
 

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