Is Faith a Gift?

Man was cast from the garden as a consequence of his exercising human free will ... and at the time apparently, there was only one(1) rule ... Do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

"God who who has the power to create whatever he chooses, and to have any process or outcome he chooses, he decides to allow us to, effectively, fail the test. This makes little sense to me. I'm trying to think of something, anything, I would design and build myself where I left in the option to fail."

The questions are clear, the instructions are simple, and the outcome fair. Some are even allowed a second chance ;)

The arguments will go round and round and soon another thread will be started that evolves into the same questions and comments. It will never end. I get that some are non-believers. He gives us choices ... always has.
 

Knight said:
My doubt comes from the freedom of choice option expressed in the bible conflicting with other verses.

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Then there is this

Mental retardation is present in about 2 to 3 percent of the population. It can be defined as cognitive ability that is markedly below average level and a decreased ability to adapt to one's environment. The onset of the condition occurs during the developmental period, i.e., gestation through age 18 years. There may be as many as 10-30 million severely and about 60-80 million mildly or moderately mentally retarded children in the world.

Doesn't sound like not to harm you to me.

Faith that a creator billions of years old has a place somewhere outside our universe takes nothing away from me. It makes no difference in my life. For me discussion on guidance derived by belief in the bible is interesting. What puzzles me is how only the promise of good like the above [ “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." ] seems to surface by those with faith.
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the promise is eternal : the mess we make of this planet : pollution ; and the mess we make of our own human bodies and minds is ever present for almost all. bit like being brought up in a safe healthy home and then let loose into a sad bad world??
 
smiley said:
the promise is eternal : the mess we make of this planet : pollution ; and the mess we make of our own human bodies and minds is ever present for almost all. bit like being brought up in a safe healthy home and then let loose into a sad bad world??
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So when did the "plan" get turned over to a select few?
 

smiley said:
the plan was never for a select few - you'll need to obtain a bible open at page one and start your bedtime stories?
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How does the promise not to harm work? Is how being born mentally incapable of leading a productive self sufficient life somewhere in those bedtime stories
 
spectratg said:
I know that there are dozens of threads on here that talk about religion in one way shape or another. I am not interested in quotes from the Bible, or the tenets of you own particular religion. Just a straightforward question. Is belief in God a gift? And if so, then what about a person who has never received that gift?
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Yes but not from God. More often it comes from your family or support system.
 
Knight said:
How does the promise not to harm work? Is how being born mentally incapable of leading a productive self sufficient life somewhere in those bedtime stories
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you have all the same resources as I do apart from perhaps not being born again - so off you go and use them - you could even find a pastor who would baptize you again and then the real fun would start and people would be asking you questions?
 
Naturally said:
Man was cast from the garden as a consequence of his exercising human free will ... and at the time apparently, there was only one(1) rule ... Do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

"God who who has the power to create whatever he chooses, and to have any process or outcome he chooses, he decides to allow us to, effectively, fail the test. This makes little sense to me. I'm trying to think of something, anything, I would design and build myself where I left in the option to fail."

The questions are clear, the instructions are simple, and the outcome fair. Some are even allowed a second chance ;)

The arguments will go round and round and soon another thread will be started that evolves into the same questions and comments. It will never end. I get that some are non-believers. He gives us choices ... always has.
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Fair? Where does this equity come from? God created two humans, Adam, and Eve. HE then gave them the option to mess up their eternal selves for an apple. God, presumably, created the snake too. The God in this scenario has a wicked sense of humor. The whole exercise seems pointless. God created hell at the same time as creating Adam and Eve? Why? There was only two of them. Wouldn't it have been far better to create humans who were truly in his image, and believed?

God, apparently, had simple instructions - but for reasons I don't understand, gave his initial creations the ability to ignore him. Looking at it, I wonder if the outcome was the fault of Eve, or the fault of God for introducing a basic flaw in faith - that one can simply decide to go against it. Free Will doesn't seem to cover it at this point. Free Will when there are only two humans existing? Free will to indulge in all God has created?

So many questions.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Not everything came into existence at the 'big bang'. Stars, galaxies, planets etc. are born, grow and die over billions of years. The observable universe is about 18 Bn. years old and the Earth is only about 4.5 bn years old.

Yes, it is remarkable how far back in time we can see .
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Thank you for the clarification. You are, clearly, correct. As humans, we essentially don't have much of an idea about what evolved on other planets. Not yet anyway.
 
VaughanJB said:
Fair? Where does this equity come from? God created two humans, Adam, and Eve. HE then gave them the option to mess up their eternal selves for an apple. God, presumably, created the snake too. The God in this scenario has a wicked sense of humor. The whole exercise seems pointless. God created hell at the same time as creating Adam and Eve? Why? There was only two of them. Wouldn't it have been far better to create humans who were truly in his image, and believed?

God, apparently, had simple instructions - but for reasons I don't understand, gave his initial creations the ability to ignore him. Looking at it, I wonder if the outcome was the fault of Eve, or the fault of God for introducing a basic flaw in faith - that one can simply decide to go against it. Free Will doesn't seem to cover it at this point. Free Will when there are only two humans existing? Free will to indulge in all God has created?

So many questions.
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you're on the right track keep walkin ! but watch out for the pot holes ! ps: we don't have all the answers - no one does - that's what's faith about?
 
Paco Dennis said:
This doesn't sound right. Faith is all about being part of a group that doesn't have all the answers? :)
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you can have both at the same time - they are not exclusive? here's one def of faith ""a firm belief in something for which there is no proof".?? tricky heh - but then you must ask the question are all church goers insane?
 
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