Difference in opinions about illegal immigration.

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Knight

Knight

Well-known Member
Differences in opinion for threads of discussion. This will if allowed will be about opinions concerning illegal immigrants. No doubt cheap labor is favored as a reason to want illegal immigrants to come to & stay. That labor helps the GDP. But along with that there is another side to the millions that come here for the opportunity to improve their lives.


Migrant crisis added to record-level US homelessness: HUD
Hispanics saw a significant jump in homelessness

Chicago is ending its new arrival mission
Migrants moved from shelters to tent communities
Jorge Ventura, Jeff Arnold

Updated: Dec 30, 2024 / 04:06 PM CST

(NewsNation) — The number of immigrants who entered the country illegally and then struggled to find housing in sanctuary cities contributed to a record number of Americans who experienced homelessness in 2024, according to a new report.

Data released by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development shows that more than 770,000 people struggle with finding a place to stay across the country on a single night. The report also indicates that the percentage of Hispanics dealing with homelessness grew by one-third over the past year and the unsheltered population among Latinos was twice that of the national average, due largely to increased migrant populations in cities like New York, Denver and Chicago.

The 18% increase in the nation’s unsheltered population was the largest year-over-year jump since HUD began tracking homelessness in 2007, The New York Times reported.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/border-coverage/migrant-crisis-added-homelessness/

That is one impact.

This is another. Not going to paste the content since it might be political.

https://epicforamerica.org/federal-budget/billions-of-government-benefits-for-illegal-aliens/

The U K seems to be addressing their immigration issue.

Prime Minister unveils new plan to end years of uncontrolled migration.
 

Knight said:
The U K seems to be addressing their immigration issue.

Prime Minister unveils new plan to end years of uncontrolled migration.
Click to expand...

That's laughable. We had so called "open borders" because we were a member of the European Union. As such, Europeans could essentially come and go as they pleased, and it was reciprocated. That had nothing whatsoever to do with illegal immigration.

Now we're out of the EU, and the government has struggled to handle a change to a more regimented and thorough migration plan. Brexit did nothing because there was no plan, no funds given over to immigration control, and no idea how we, as a country, were going to cope without immigrant labor. For example, in the care industry.

As such, this is ridiculous posturing .
 

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Our borders should be secured & kept that way. Everyone coming in should be vetted, be able to provide for themselves & their families & not expect to be given tax payer handouts.

There are many who are trying to come into the US by legal means & are waiting in line to do so. Those who decided to come in illegally need to deport themselves & get in the back of the line.

Anyone who has come in illegally & haven't gone back shouldn't be given precedence to those doing it the right way. This is just rewarding someone for breaking the law.
 
I've wondered for a long time now, why it is that there isn't an "Ellis Island" (so to speak) on our southern boarder somewhere.
Ya' know, setup a place that is specifically suited to process people in and make it as easy as my ancestors had... easier, granted immigration is and should not be a breeze. Wouldn't it also drastically reduce the whole dangerous smuggling thing?

People from Central & South America have been wanting to immigrate to the USA for a long time and many people are more
than happy to welcome the folks here... but our government has made exceeding difficult for them to do so.

IDK why that is... would love for someone to enlighten me.
 
Ted01 said:
I've wondered for a long time now, why it is that there isn't an "Ellis Island" (so to speak) on our southern boarder somewhere.
Ya' know, setup a place that is specifically suited to process people in and make it as easy as my ancestors had... easier, granted immigration is and should not be a breeze. Wouldn't it also drastically reduce the whole dangerous smuggling thing?

People from Central & South America have been wanting to immigrate to the USA for a long time and many people are more
than happy to welcome the folks here... but our government has made exceeding difficult for them to do so.

IDK why that is... would love for someone to enlighten me.
Click to expand...
It's called xenophobia, and the current people in charge have a giant case of it. The Ellis Island on the southern border is a great idea.
 
I am sorry these people have to go through what they have been and will continue to have to go through, but I don’t want the burden of the costs to maintain these people to be paid for by the American taxpayer. I don’t think a lot of thought was put into bringing them here.

It was like, “Let’s get them here and then maybe we can figure someway of handling the situation.”

Do you realize it’s been over 50 years since our SS recipients have received a raise? Not talking about the COLA they receive every year, but the base rate, which is based on the wages earned has not been increased in years. Congress hasn’t gone 50 ears without an increase.
 
oldman said:
Do you realize it’s been over 50 years since our SS recipients have received a raise? Not talking about the COLA they receive every year, but the base rate, which is based on the wages earned has not been increased in years. Congress hasn’t gone 50 ears without an increase.
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I think this kind of thinking is actually part of the problem (but common). Do you think the government is going to save millions and reassign it to SS recipients? There is a bill going through Congress that increases the deficit by $2tr, and there's no talk of increasing the base rate, is there? Meaning, it's not the expense of Illegal Immigrants that is preventing that base rate increasing, it's simply the will of those in control (in all parties).
 
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VaughanJB said:
That's laughable. We had so called "open borders" because we were a member of the European Union. As such, Europeans could essentially come and go as they pleased, and it was reciprocated. That had nothing whatsoever to do with illegal immigration.

Now we're out of the EU, and the government has struggled to handle a change to a more regimented and thorough migration plan. Brexit did nothing because there was no plan, no funds given over to immigration control, and no idea how we, as a country, were going to cope without immigrant labor. For example, in the care industry.

As such, this is ridiculous posturing .
Click to expand...
I thought the plan to end uncontrolled immigration to insure this was a good idea.

  • Migration system will back British workers, boost economic growth and control our borders under the Plan for Change
  • New contributions-based model will extend route to settlement from five to 10 years – with reductions for those who contribute to economy
  • New English language requirements across all immigration routes to promote integration
 
Ted01 said:
I've wondered for a long time now, why it is that there isn't an "Ellis Island" (so to speak) on our southern boarder somewhere.
Ya' know, setup a place that is specifically suited to process people in and make it as easy as my ancestors had... easier, granted immigration is and should not be a breeze. Wouldn't it also drastically reduce the whole dangerous smuggling thing?
Click to expand...
Does immigration happen at the port of entry?
Almost a million individuals enter the U.S. daily. Everyone arriving at a port of entry to the U.S. is subject to inspection by Customs and Border Protection officers for compliance with immigration, customs and agriculture regulations.Sep 27, 2024

U.S. Customs and Border Protection
U.S. Customs and Border Protection › travel › international-visitors › kn...

Not a bad idea. Could probably process a million a day by building large centers staffed with several hundred trained agents. Add in another set of buildings and staff to be able to verify amnesty requests the same day.

Probably would really work now that illegal attempts have been reduced dramatically. Maybe eventually be able to reduce the staff needed for processing.

Still have to deal with those trafficking humans & drugs.
 
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oldman said:
I am sorry these people have to go through what they have been and will continue to have to go through, but I don’t want the burden of the costs to maintain these people to be paid for by the American taxpayer. I don’t think a lot of thought was put into bringing them here.

It was like, “Let’s get them here and then maybe we can figure someway of handling the situation.”

Do you realize it’s been over 50 years since our SS recipients have received a raise? Not talking about the COLA they receive every year, but the base rate, which is based on the wages earned has not been increased in years. Congress hasn’t gone 50 ears without an increase.
Click to expand...
Do you realize that undocumented immigrants pay almost $100 billion in taxes and receive few tax benefits? So what, exactly, is the argument again? So easy to blame immigrants when Social Security is in danger because there are fewer younger workers to pay into the system.

"An estimated 11 million immigrants live in the US without authorization. Contrary to some claims, they pay a considerable amount in taxes. Some estimates suggest undocumented immigrants paid nearly $100 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022.

Like all US citizens, undocumented immigrants must pay taxes

"Immigrants of any legal status are required to pay the same taxes as US citizens. Most have income and payroll taxes deducted from their wages. If they purchase a home, or any goods and services, they pay state and local property taxes or sales taxes like others in their community.

US citizens and undocumented immigrants interact differently with the federal tax system in the forms of identification they use to file their taxes each year.

If you are a US citizen, you can use your Social Security number (SSN) to file your income taxes. Immigrants who do not have a valid visa or other proof of legal status are not eligible for an SSN. Instead, these workers can apply through the IRS for an individual taxpayer identification number, or ITIN, to file their taxes. As of January 2021, there were an estimated 5.4 million active ITINs."

https://taxpolicycenter.org/fiscal-...grants-pay-taxes-and-receive-few-tax-benefits
 
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A few generalisations -

Countries with an ageing demographic are going to need an influx of young people with job skills. Legal or not, I reckon people wanting to immigrate who have the right skill sets, with or without a young family, ought to have a legal pathway available that will lead to citizenship.

Where, due to the aging of the population, it becomes obvious that a shortage of teachers, medical practitioners and other professions such as engineering and trades will become a problem in the next decade, then as well as encouraging the young, government would do well to recruit extra workers from overseas. Looking for suitable candidates among the ranks of refugees could be a good place to start.

Finally, helping the immigrants already in the country with language lessons and advocates who speak English plus the language of the immigrant to help them navigate the swamps of bureaucracy would solve many problems associated with assimilation and change the population profile from ageing to productive.

I am often reminded that Australia is a country* that began with the arrival of three boatloads of convicts, and it was the convicts and their descendants who built a dynamic society in little over a century. People flocked to the new colonies to find a better life than they left behind and they too were an asset, whether they were just looking for better life or fleeing persecution.

I'm on the side of the immigrants who are not actually hardened criminals.
I love this part of the inscription on the Statue of Liberty

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

* The indigenous people are the only ones who did not benefit from transportation.
 
You are so right. There are so many countries that have a lack of young people due to low birth rates. When my mother was in assisted living, I don't know how they would have continued without the Filipino and East Indian caregivers. I knew she was in good hands and when she passed away they all shared stories about her and hugged me.

The US would come to a halt without immigrants.
 
Oh God I didn't want to post but I can't stop thinking about this. Come to California and get free medical benefits. I'm not 65 yet and don't get retirement benefits but I do have to pay a butt load of money for minimal benefits. I'm not privy to receive discounted amounts of medical benefits including medicines as well but once again, come to California and get free benefits. Damn it! I've been here all of my life, worked hard for well over 40 plus years now. Why do I have to pay a mega substantial amount vs. come into California and get free benefits. We're paying for their benefits but folks like me have to pay at least 5x more to hopefully survive. Cute huh?
 
Everybody deserves "A Fair Go", as they say in Australia. My family came here in 1947. We didn't come here as 10-pound Poms as many did. My parents sold all their wedding presents, and my father flew out in 1946 to get a job and send for us. They were very hard times. I feel so sorry for those that try to get away from their homeland wanting a better life for their families.
 
oscash said:
Everybody deserves "A Fair Go", as they say in Australia. My family came here in 1947. We didn't come here as 10-pound Poms as many did. My parents sold all their wedding presents, and my father flew out in 1946 to get a job and send for us. They were very hard times. I feel so sorry for those that try to get away from their homeland wanting a better life for their families.
Click to expand...
What is a Pom?
 
I also have very mixed feelings about the illegal immigrants. Since I was a young teen I have worked a multitude of jobs where many of the workers were undocumented. Horse stables, farm work, feedlots, chili factory to name a few. I could get a better job…they were under the radar and could not. My sons first and best babysitter was illegal. I still deal with many undocumented workers…landscapers, house painters and others. The problem in our country is that people pull the “it is not fair” card when any solution mentions amnesty.
 
I also have mixed feelings. I do know I'm against masked, unidentified ICE agents. Feels UnAmerican to sweep people up in this frightening way. Criminals can pose as ICE agents if no identification is used. It's scary, no regular working undocumented person should be subject to this.
 
One can congratulate our do nothing politicians and their endless growth and development Wall Street and wealthy puppet masters. All the immigration issues could have been fixed decades ago and still could were it not for economic interests making sure the status quo didn't change. After the significant 1986 legislation, those overlords quickly monkeywrenched it.

Consider something as simply to fix with legislation as dealing with Visa overstays our politicians have ignored for decades that tourist, leisure, and real estate industries make sure never happens. Some think the farm worker situation is impossible to fix. NO NO and NO. Even that can easily be fixed with guest worker legislation by first putting monkeywrenching Wall Street agribusiness corp CEOs and farmworker union leaders into body stocks for public humiliation and display.
 
seadoug said:
Do you realize that undocumented immigrants pay almost $100 billion in taxes and receive few tax benefits? So what, exactly, is the argument again? So easy to blame immigrants when Social Security is in danger because there are fewer younger workers to pay into the system.

"An estimated 11 million immigrants live in the US without authorization. Contrary to some claims, they pay a considerable amount in taxes. Some estimates suggest undocumented immigrants paid nearly $100 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022.

Like all US citizens, undocumented immigrants must pay taxes

"Immigrants of any legal status are required to pay the same taxes as US citizens. Most have income and payroll taxes deducted from their wages. If they purchase a home, or any goods and services, they pay state and local property taxes or sales taxes like others in their community.

US citizens and undocumented immigrants interact differently with the federal tax system in the forms of identification they use to file their taxes each year.

If you are a US citizen, you can use your Social Security number (SSN) to file your income taxes. Immigrants who do not have a valid visa or other proof of legal status are not eligible for an SSN. Instead, these workers can apply through the IRS for an individual taxpayer identification number, or ITIN, to file their taxes. As of January 2021, there were an estimated 5.4 million active ITINs."

https://taxpolicycenter.org/fiscal-...grants-pay-taxes-and-receive-few-tax-benefits
Click to expand...
I think you’re confused. I wasn’t placing the blame on immigrants for SS recipients not getting a raise in 50+ years. It was a separate issue.
 

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