America is Already Socialist.

There are a lot of socialist programs, many of which need to be controlled much more than they are. Since many have their roots mostly stemming from dire times ie the depression their use has gone beyond 'dire times' or those in really really need it. And socialism is the proverbial foot in the door for much worse because it will take away choice for users and providers. Some say capitalism enslaves many literally & figuratively to profit while socialism could enslave many to the government, not the people but the government. There is a line.

Was that an Al Jazeera video?
 
Some say what we are now trying to pull ourselves out of..Bushes recession.. rivals the great depression in every way.. and looking at our infrastructure, we could well use a New Deal. Did you even watch the video WhatINThe?
 
QuickSilver said:
Some say what we are now trying to pull ourselves out of..Bushes recession.. rivals the great depression in every way.. and looking at our infrastructure, we could well use a New Deal. Did you even watch the video WhatINThe?
Click to expand...

I did and even they mention the depression era programs. Now it wouldn't be a 'new' deal it would be a 'more' deal. There are a whole lot things that can be done but many FDR programs wouldn't work on their own the way they did last century.
 
Last edited:
I think the point is that "Socialism" has become such a dirty word.. fueled by right wing media that many people do not even realize that much of our way of life... even things that are generally considered good and necessary.. like SS, Medicare, and even the Military are socialist programs. Not one single one of us could have made it without society as a whole banding together to provide things that we take for granted.. Roads... Utilities.. education systems come to mind.
 
I pay for schools I don't use, I pay for parks, lakes I no longer use, I pay for street lights but there's none on my street, servers in restaurants in many places share "pool" tips, so do bartenders, those are all socialized systems. The dynamics and practice of socialism is practiced in every developed country of the world to some extent. Fox preys on weak minds.
 
That's the part the Right hates... Private business and the fat cats long to get their hands on these programs so they can make a profit and provide inferior services.. Since they are big contributors to campaign funds, there is a push on the right to "Privatize" everything.. They are hell bent on privatizing our Postal service, and it doesn't even use tax money but is totally funded by postal fees.
 
Rightwing loonies say "I don't need no stinkin socialism, I got the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, a pantry full of food, I have dozens of guns and tons of ammo. I'm good to go, take care of yourselves ya yeller Commies....
 
AZ Jim said:
Rightwing loonies say "I don't need no stinkin socialism, I got the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, a pantry full of food, I have dozens of guns and tons of ammo. I'm good to go, take care of yourselves ya yeller Commies....
Click to expand...

Vert good, Jim. You should consider doing a one man Broadway show.
 
What did she mean by that "when you get old and crotchety" crack? Everyone here is so sweet and cuddly. :grouphug:

I am not a big fan of labels, so I never really dug into the definition. Thanks for posting that. I did learn something.
 
I posted this before but apparently some of you do not believe it to be true.

This entire thread is a distorted idea about the US. Saying that ever time we help someone else it is socialism and straight from the socialist themselves which means much of it is true. Live in a city and you pay for utilities. Not socialist at all as many if not most are private companies working for a profit so not socialist. If you live in a city and don't like paying for roads, leave the city and go to the country and live on dirt roads. Still plenty of them around the US. Bush did not create a great depression and the reason for our failures was two Democrats in charge of our housing finance group, left the government after the crisis developed, Franks was one and the other name can be found. They approved housing loans for people that just could not afford a loan and eventually those folks were failing and pulled our economy down. No home building companies could handle that mess and neither could the US government. We went into bankruptcy very quickly. It is a national problem, neither Republican or Democrat as some like to point.

Socialism is fine for some practices but for the US we just do not need more and these wimpy excuses for saying we are already socialist just do not work. Far too much of what some call socialism is not such as it only takes an election to make many of these things go away. Don't like your schools, vote no. Don't like your health care, vote no. We are not using government controlled industries. Neither is England or any of their associates. Which has made many things better over there and in France and other countries of Europe that have backed off their once solid socialist paths and gone into private lives for doing things.

Yes that girl brought up our military. Glad we are having that. It is not socialism at all as they rise and fall depending on how our government is feeling. Even there we have to depend on private industries to make a military possible. When I was in the service they did their own thing like feed the troops. Now, for both my son and daughter, even in a conflict zone, their feeding was done through contracting with private companies to do that job. My golly, private companies near conflict to feed the troops.

No, the US so far is a long way from being socialist and hopefully they will stay that way for ever.
...........................


Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership and/or social control of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.


Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
  • Like
Reactions: imp
AZ Jim said:
I pay for schools I don't use, I pay for parks, lakes I no longer use, I pay for street lights but there's none on my street, servers in restaurants in many places share "pool" tips, so do bartenders, those are all socialized systems. The dynamics and practice of socialism is practiced in every developed country of the world to some extent. Fox preys on weak minds.
Click to expand...

Socialism is PART of or can be used to described what goes on in many aspects of many societies. BUT it should be just part of the system, not THE system. And many things paid for by taxes are available to everyone. Some do, don't or can't take advantage and others by choice. But those taxes were from a capitalist system of pay, competition and/or free market albeit considered 'rigged' by some. Many roads & railroads were built to help support capitalist endeavors- in the beginning were they built for business. Public transportation was an off shoot or derivation of the original purpose which is fine because part of the evolutionary process-new ideas.

Fox doesn't prey on weak minds. Nor does Msnbc. There are conservatives without Fox just as there are lefties without Msnbc.
 
I went to You Tube and looked at the comments about this video. Right back to square one. Just one long unending dispute about the definition. That's why I hate labels. There is ten times more time spent on discussing definitions, than there is on discussing the actual ideas.
 
What we have is a Democratic Socialist system.. We have capitalism with socialism combined.. which is the best sort of system.. Sadly too many think that we need a PURE Capitalist society... and if it comes to that... we are doomed. The function of capitalism is to make a profit... and to make bigger and bigger profits.. eventually, capitalism will cannibalize itself. When all the money is moved up to the top and there are no more people to provide the profits the system will die. We need a nice healthy dose of socialism to ensure that never happens..
 
There is darn little of what we do in the US that is Central Controlled by a central government. Most productive items I can think of are local or individual inspired, driven, and controlled. Our medical system is mostly controlled by individuals, (Doctors in practices or groups) or locally inspired and paid for and controlled (hospitals, medical emergency aide places, clinics for special treatments). I really know of no centrally controlled medical places other than the VA types. We do have a centrally controlled medical insurance guidance group in DC. Our military itself is centrally controlled from DC. Our tax collectors are centrally controlled from DC. Some of our laws are centrally controlled from DC. But to my view, most of the US is not centrally controlled as we do have states, county, city, ways of controlling their areas to the way they need or want. All this is good for all of us as our needs are best known and fixed locally.

Most of our sharing, unions, police, and such are all locally supported and paid for. Want more then vote for them. Want less, don't vote for them or vote to get rid of them. That is mostly local control.

I do agree that somethings do happen in a socialized way, but even if out of DC they can get removed as we do not have a socialized form of government. As long as we still have the vote and a congress doing what they can to ensure the people are in charge, we can vote for or against anything the government attempts to control. That is what is good about the US. No jail or firing squads if we protest. We are allowed to vote.
 
Our system is Capitalistic Socialism Bob... Like it or not.... that's what it is... There are areas that have to be handled by society and therefore government as they are far to big for individuals to handle alone.. Build your own roads... Set up your own electric grid. train and operate your own military.. own and operate your own water purification plant.. It's a fact Bob... and because you have a very distorted and erroneous view of what socialism is.. you simply cannot believe it.
 
Unfortunately your definition is only part of our full definition.

http://stephendpalmer.com/american-form-government/

[h=1]What is the American Form of Government?[/h] May 18, 2008

The most common — and grossly incorrect — answer to this question is that we are a democracy.


The right — albeit simplistic — answer is that we are a republic.


A more sophisticated answer is that we are a constitutional republic.


The most thorough answer comes from selections of the Federalist Papers: an Extended Limited Commercial Federal Democratic Republic.

“Extended” refers to geography — never before in history has there been a republic that covered so much territory.


“Limited” refers to the fact that the Constitution expressly defines what the government can and cannot do.


“Commercial” refers to our national character.


The Founders said that there were three main national characters: martial, religious, and commercial. Rome had a martial character, as does China. Ancient Israel had a religious character.


Since religious and martial-character nations tend toward tyranny, the Founders chose commercial.
By “federal,” Madison meant as much power as possible was preserved with the People, and that the federal government only existed for specific and limited purposes.


The idea of federalism is that the closer one gets to the People the more power there is, while the closer one gets to the federal government, the less power one finds.


“Democratic” refers to the idea that we are a social democracy, although not a governmental democracy.


Social democracy is the concept that intrinsic in our culture is the understanding that all men and women are created equal, that no individual is better than another, and that everyone has equal opportunity to succeed.


(As an interesting side note, Oliver DeMille gives an updated version of Madison’s lengthy label. He says that we are now an “Internationalist, Sometimes Constitutional (Except Where Prohibited By Law), Extended (Globally), Increasingly Commercial, National, Representative/Virtual/Popular Democracy, With a Technocratic Supremacist Court.” But that’s a conversation for another day…)
 
Our form of government is a Democratic Republic or Constitutional Republic... Our ECONOMY Is Capitalistic Socialist.... Pay attention..
 
BobF said:
Don't you ever read or watch anything that says you are only partially correct?
Click to expand...


No bob... I simply scan your posts looking for anything that might be different from what you have posted nine million times.. Usually there is nothing new to read.. so why bother.. It's either about the debt... or about how horrible President Obama is...
 
BobF said:
I posted this before but apparently some of you do not believe it to be true.

This entire thread is a distorted idea about the US. Saying that ever time we help someone else it is socialism and straight from the socialist themselves which means much of it is true. Live in a city and you pay for utilities. Not socialist at all as many if not most are private companies working for a profit so not socialist. If you live in a city and don't like paying for roads, leave the city and go to the country and live on dirt roads. Still plenty of them around the US. Bush did not create a great depression and the reason for our failures was two Democrats in charge of our housing finance group, left the government after the crisis developed, Franks was one and the other name can be found. They approved housing loans for people that just could not afford a loan and eventually those folks were failing and pulled our economy down. No home building companies could handle that mess and neither could the US government. We went into bankruptcy very quickly. It is a national problem, neither Republican or Democrat as some like to point.

Socialism is fine for some practices but for the US we just do not need more and these wimpy excuses for saying we are already socialist just do not work. Far too much of what some call socialism is not such as it only takes an election to make many of these things go away. Don't like your schools, vote no. Don't like your health care, vote no. We are not using government controlled industries. Neither is England or any of their associates. Which has made many things better over there and in France and other countries of Europe that have backed off their once solid socialist paths and gone into private lives for doing things.

Yes that girl brought up our military. Glad we are having that. It is not socialism at all as they rise and fall depending on how our government is feeling. Even there we have to depend on private industries to make a military possible. When I was in the service they did their own thing like feed the troops. Now, for both my son and daughter, even in a conflict zone, their feeding was done through contracting with private companies to do that job. My golly, private companies near conflict to feed the troops.

No, the US so far is a long way from being socialist and hopefully they will stay that way for ever.
Click to expand...

Well why would anyone not believe material that you had posted? I agree with the red highlighted statement above.


You want real socialism? ---> socialistparty-usa. ---->Early socialist thinker:Charles Fourier
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top