Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
No need, QuickSilver. I think everyone understands, even though most of us have never had similar experiences. :bighug:
Guns- Putting it in perspective in my real world.
- Thread starter Underock1
- Start date
mitchezz
Member
- Location
- NSW Australia
Please don't apologise QS. From an outsider's perspective I think America needs a lot more people angry about the harm guns do to effect any real change.
mitchezz
Member
- Location
- NSW Australia
Boy, 11, charged with murder after he 'killed his eight-year-old girl neighbor with his dad's shot-gun in a fight over a puppy'
An 11-year-old boy used his father's shot-gun to shoot dead an eight-year-old girl neighbor this weekend, in a fight over a puppy.
The fifth-grade boy who carried out the tragic shooting was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder on Saturday.
Authorities in White Pine, Tennessee have not officially identified the shooter or his victim, but family have identified Maykayla Dyer as the girl killed.
Too young: Maykayla Dyer, age eight, was shot dead on Saturday by an eleven-year-old neighbor after telling the boy he couldn't see her puppy
In mourning: Maykayla's mother Latasha Dyer (in red) broke down in tears as she spoke about her daughter's murder this weekend
Police were called to the trailer park on Robin Road around 7:30pm after calls about a shooting, and found Dyer on the ground suffering from a gunshot wound to the chest.
She was rushed to Morristown-Hamblen Hospital where she was later pronounced dead.
Sheriff Bud McCoig says Dyer attended White Pine Elementary School where her shooter was also a student. He reportedly used his father's 12-gauge shotgun to carry out the shooting.
Authorities have not released details on what spurred the shooting, but neighbors and Maykayla's family say the shots rang out after a fight about a puppy.
The boy allegedly shot her from his home shortly after that exchange.
'Watching the Tennessee football game, heard the bang,' neighbor Chasity Arwood told WBIR. 'And then everybody screaming that he shot her baby girl.'
On Sunday, Maykayla's mother Latasha Dyer broke down in tears as she described how her 'mommy's girl' had been bullied by her shooter.
Shattered glass: The boy who carried out the shooting reportedly fired the gun from inside his home. He was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder
Mommy's girl: Maykayla Dyer pictured above with her mother Latasha. Latasha Dyer says that her daughter's alleged killer had a history of bullying her
'When we first moved to White Pine, the little boy was bullying McKayla,' Dyer told WATE. 'He was making fun of her, calling her names just being mean to her, I had to go the principal about him and he quit for a while and then all of a sudden yesterday he shot her.'
'I want her back in my arms, this is not fair, hold and kiss you’re babies every night because you’re never promised the next day with them. I hope the little boy learned his lesson because he took my baby’s life and I can’t get her back,' Dyer added.
The boy has been charged with first-degree murder and is currently in custody. He is set to appear before a judge at 11am on Monday for a detention hearing. A judge will later determine whether the child should be charged as an adult.
The boy reportedly came from a family of six children. It's unclear whether he had any mental health issues, but the Department of Child Services is investigating the possibility.
A man who says he is Maykayla's uncle has set up a Go Fund Me page to raise funds for the girl's funeral.
Read more:
- The victim has been identified as Maykayla Dyer, age eight
- The third grader was reportedly shot dead by an 11-year-old neighbor after she refused to let him see her puppy on Saturday
- The boy was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder
- Dyer's mother says the boy had a history of bullying her daughter
An 11-year-old boy used his father's shot-gun to shoot dead an eight-year-old girl neighbor this weekend, in a fight over a puppy.
The fifth-grade boy who carried out the tragic shooting was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder on Saturday.
Authorities in White Pine, Tennessee have not officially identified the shooter or his victim, but family have identified Maykayla Dyer as the girl killed.
Too young: Maykayla Dyer, age eight, was shot dead on Saturday by an eleven-year-old neighbor after telling the boy he couldn't see her puppy
In mourning: Maykayla's mother Latasha Dyer (in red) broke down in tears as she spoke about her daughter's murder this weekend
Police were called to the trailer park on Robin Road around 7:30pm after calls about a shooting, and found Dyer on the ground suffering from a gunshot wound to the chest.
She was rushed to Morristown-Hamblen Hospital where she was later pronounced dead.
Sheriff Bud McCoig says Dyer attended White Pine Elementary School where her shooter was also a student. He reportedly used his father's 12-gauge shotgun to carry out the shooting.
Authorities have not released details on what spurred the shooting, but neighbors and Maykayla's family say the shots rang out after a fight about a puppy.
The boy allegedly shot her from his home shortly after that exchange.
'Watching the Tennessee football game, heard the bang,' neighbor Chasity Arwood told WBIR. 'And then everybody screaming that he shot her baby girl.'
On Sunday, Maykayla's mother Latasha Dyer broke down in tears as she described how her 'mommy's girl' had been bullied by her shooter.
Shattered glass: The boy who carried out the shooting reportedly fired the gun from inside his home. He was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder
Mommy's girl: Maykayla Dyer pictured above with her mother Latasha. Latasha Dyer says that her daughter's alleged killer had a history of bullying her
'When we first moved to White Pine, the little boy was bullying McKayla,' Dyer told WATE. 'He was making fun of her, calling her names just being mean to her, I had to go the principal about him and he quit for a while and then all of a sudden yesterday he shot her.'
'I want her back in my arms, this is not fair, hold and kiss you’re babies every night because you’re never promised the next day with them. I hope the little boy learned his lesson because he took my baby’s life and I can’t get her back,' Dyer added.
The boy has been charged with first-degree murder and is currently in custody. He is set to appear before a judge at 11am on Monday for a detention hearing. A judge will later determine whether the child should be charged as an adult.
The boy reportedly came from a family of six children. It's unclear whether he had any mental health issues, but the Department of Child Services is investigating the possibility.
A man who says he is Maykayla's uncle has set up a Go Fund Me page to raise funds for the girl's funeral.
Read more:
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
How can you try an 11 year old as an adult?
Try him for murder by all means but as a child, not an adult.
What about the adults who had an unsecured shotgun and ammunition?
Try him for murder by all means but as a child, not an adult.
What about the adults who had an unsecured shotgun and ammunition?
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
QS. No need to apologise. So sorry for your pain.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Try him as a child. Try his parents also. They are complicit in this horror. Rest in peace Maykayla.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Perhaps I should apologise also, for bringing too much gritty ugliness to the board. Perhaps I overshared. If I caused unnecessary upset I am sorry.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
On another tack, it is said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. So it is with gun safety and gun legislation.
It's 20 years since Australia brought in uniform national legislation to control/prohibit certain categories of firearms.
There are signs that vested interests are working to undermine them.
It's 20 years since Australia brought in uniform national legislation to control/prohibit certain categories of firearms.
There are signs that vested interests are working to undermine them.
After 20 years, Australia's gun control debate is igniting once again
Lenore Taylor
While we’ve been basking in international acclamation over a policy we got right, the gun lobby has been quietly scratching away at the restrictions imposed by John Howard after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.
Saturday 29 August 2015
Another shocking shooting in the United States. Like most Australians, my feeling of horror is followed by a flicker of relief. Unlike the Americans, when we suffered a tragedy, we acted – we did something that made our country safer. John Howard’s political courage after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre channelled our national grief into some of the toughest gun laws in the world.
Since then there hasn’t been another massacre – as everyone from Barack Obama to John Oliver has noted. Studies have suggested that the mass gun buyback and stricter licensing rules resulted in lower rates of homicide and suicide. But while we’ve been basking in international acclamation of a policy we got right, the Australian gun lobby has been quietly scratching away at the restrictions.
This month Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm forced the Abbott government into a partial retreat on an already trumpeted ban on imports of a new rapid-action shotgun. Leyonhjelm happily boasted in the Senate that he had undertaken political “blackmail” – in return for the government’s backflip, he abandoned a plan to vote for an entirely unrelated Labor amendment that would have required an adult or guardian to be present when blood, saliva or fingerprints are taken from children by the Australia’s Border Force.
Now a review of firearms law is developing into a politically tense contest between the prime minister’s determination to protect “community safety” – a central element of his pitch in next year’s federal election – and the National party’s determination to stand up for the interests of law-abiding gun owners in the bush.
The whole point of Howard’s sweeping post-Port Arthur gun laws was to restrict the private ownership of semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns – the kinds of rapid-fire guns that can be used in massacres – and to impose a strict and uniform licensing system.
But earlier this year the gun control lobby began raising the alarm about the imminent importation of the Adler A110 shotgun, a Turkish-made weapon capable of firing seven shots in rapid succession. Robert Noia, a Brisbane-based gun importer, who also happens to be the son-in-law of Queensland independent Bob Katter, could hardly keep up with demand. More than 7,000 customers had paid $800 for the gun in advance.
“It would have completely undermined the National Firearms Agreement. It puts rapid-fire shotguns in the hands of the general community, which is exactly what the agreement was designed to avoid,” said Roland Browne, vice-president of Gun Control Australia. Browne said the Adler “fell through the cracks” of the 1996 agreement because it works like a self-loading shotgun, even though technically it is not one.
The concerns were heard in the prime minister’s office and in late July the Sunday Telegraph ran an exclusive story revealing that Abbott had staged a “dramatic” intervention to ban the import of the Adler for at least six months, until a review of the firearm agreement recommended in the wake of last year’s Sydney cafe siege had been completed. The Sunday Herald Sun accompanied the story with an editorial saying Abbott should be congratulated for the move.
But shooters’ organisations, the National party and Leyonhjelm were not pleased. And in less than one month, the government had staged a partial reversal, promising that the ban would definitely be lifted in 12 months, with Leyonhjelm claiming credit.
“We are not happy the federal government has placed a ban on imports of lever-action shotguns with a capacity of more than five rounds – commonly called the Adler ban – while it reviews the National Firearms Agreement ... Last week I managed to blackmail the government into adding a 12-month sunset clause to its Adler ban,” he told the Senate.
In an article in the Bendigo Advertiser, headlined: “Ban on Adler A110 shotgun import lifted”, Nationals senator Bridget McKenzie said the initial decision had been made without consultation with firearms owners and showed “the system is broken”.
Of course, if you look at the fine print, the “ban” may not be lifted at all, and the real fight has just been delayed. That is because the review – being conducted by a working group mainly comprising state police forces – is considering the licensing categories and whether the Adler should continue to be a category A (available to licensed shooters who can demonstrate a genuine need) or be shifted to category D, restricted to government agencies or occupational shooters, like those doing feral animal control.
The working group is also reportedly considering a much bigger and more controversial change, to reclassify all lever-action shotguns and even the possibility of another mass buyback of such weapons already legally owned by shooters. But the gun lobby secured another last-minute change that could be critical to those decisions.
The Abbott government has re-established an “industry reference group” to “have input” into the review. (It abolished the former industry consultative group that had been running since 2010 soon after coming to office as part of its “war” on red tape.) Now that Abbott has been replaced as PM, the government has received a boost in the polls. Senator Leyonhjelm may not have as much leverage with Malcolm Turnbull. Let's hope so.
Leyonhjelm was claiming credit for that too. “I also blackmailed the government into reopening regular consultations with a long list of representative firearms groups,” he told the Senate. The reference group’s first meeting is next Wednesday.
For now, Leyonhjelm and the Nationals are talking up their “common-sense victory” to regional media and shooters’ organisations, while the justice minister, Michael Keenan, was issuing a statement on Friday insisting that the government “remains tough on gun laws” and the ban had not been relaxed at all.
But saying different things to different audiences can only go on for so long. The recommendations of the review – with the newly added industry input – will go to state and federal ministers in November and then to the council of Australian governments in early 2016. That means the final decision balancing all the Liberal’s promises about community safety and the gun lobby’s (and National party’s) demands for law-abiding shooters to have access to the weapon is set to hit the headlines right at the start of an election year.
Leyonhjelm, for one, is not afraid of taking on the government’s “national security” arguments. “The Coalition government is struggling in the polls, with little sign of recovery. The only issue on which it seems to make headway is national security, so we continue to be bombarded with thundering rhetoric about the terrorist threat … And before long, we got a manufactured moral panic about guns. How insulting it is to link Australia’s 800,000 licensed firearms owners to terrorism,” he told the Senate.
Over the 20 years since Port Arthur, the gun lobby have steadily won concessions. For example:
- The original agreement restricted gun licences to adults but now several states have brought in “minor’s permits” and in Western Australia there are no age limits for club shooting. The Sporting Shooters’ Association says this would be the “ideal situation” across the nation.
- The agreement established a 28-day “cooling off period” between applying for, and getting a gun, but four states have now done away with that for second and subsequent guns.
And while almost a million guns were handed in and destroyed in the post-Port Arthur amnesty, imports have now taken the national gun inventory back to 1996 levels.
These things have happened while we rested on our laurels, thinking the Howard government’s gutsy stand would continue to keep us safe, while the pesky detail of the agreement was discussed in obscure working groups and relegated to the shadows. But after 20 years, Australia’s gun control debate is igniting again.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Also putting things into perspective - this article was written by a US writer in August, after the shooting in Virginia of the news presenter and the cameraman. It contains some very poignant and prescient paragraphs.
And of course she was right. Nothing did change and there has been another mass shooting. Possibly more than one since the Virginia shootings.
Full article here: http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...you-might-get-shot-is-a-fact-of-american-life
And of course she was right. Nothing did change and there has been another mass shooting. Possibly more than one since the Virginia shootings.
Full article here: http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...you-might-get-shot-is-a-fact-of-american-life
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
IMHO, in this case, the parents of the boy were grossly negligent in leaving a shotgun where their son, known to be a bully, could get his hands on it. Bullying should be addressed when it starts, not after something like this happens.
Another case of a young person feeling entitled to get what he wanted when he wanted it, not being able to accept NO and feeling like he was entitled to "get even" with anyone who said NO. When are we going to decide to deal with stuff like bullying when it starts and not wait until it explodes into fatal violence??
Terribly sad.
Another case of a young person feeling entitled to get what he wanted when he wanted it, not being able to accept NO and feeling like he was entitled to "get even" with anyone who said NO. When are we going to decide to deal with stuff like bullying when it starts and not wait until it explodes into fatal violence??
Terribly sad.
Underock1
Senior Member
- Location
- Suburban NJ
My heart felt sympathy to all those who have suffered such horrible tragedies. My admiration for being the loving, caring people I know you to be from your posts in spite of all of that. I have to leave this thread. My frustration with the ignorance, stupidity and cold heartedness of my fellow human (?) beings has reached its limits.
Jackie22
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northeast Texas
I feel the same....my heart goes out to QS and Shali.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Thank you Jackie. It makes me a better therapist I think.:love_heart:
Davey Jones
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
Guns? This Says It All. Money,who has it and who they give it to.And to think you people keep re-electing the same ones over and over and over...........
The Story of My Gun
Today, I swung my front door wide open and placed my Remington 30.06 right in the doorway. I left 6 cartridges beside it, then left it alone and went about my business.
While I was gone, the mailman delivered my mail, the neighbor boy across the street mowed the yard, a girl walked her dog down the street, and quite a few cars stopped at the stop sign near the front of my house
After about an hour, I checked on the gun. It was still sitting there, right where I had left it. It hadn't moved itself outside. It certainly hadn't killed anyone, even with the numerous opportunities it had presented to do so. In fact, it hadn't even loaded itself.
Well you can imagine my surprise, with all the hype by the Left and the Media about how dangerous guns are and how they kill people. Either the media is wrong or I'm in possession of the laziest gun in the world.
The United States is 3rd in Murders throughout the World. But if you take out just 4 cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the entire world, for Murders. These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the U.S.
It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data - right?
Today, I swung my front door wide open and placed my Remington 30.06 right in the doorway. I left 6 cartridges beside it, then left it alone and went about my business.
While I was gone, the mailman delivered my mail, the neighbor boy across the street mowed the yard, a girl walked her dog down the street, and quite a few cars stopped at the stop sign near the front of my house
After about an hour, I checked on the gun. It was still sitting there, right where I had left it. It hadn't moved itself outside. It certainly hadn't killed anyone, even with the numerous opportunities it had presented to do so. In fact, it hadn't even loaded itself.
Well you can imagine my surprise, with all the hype by the Left and the Media about how dangerous guns are and how they kill people. Either the media is wrong or I'm in possession of the laziest gun in the world.
The United States is 3rd in Murders throughout the World. But if you take out just 4 cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the entire world, for Murders. These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the U.S.
It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data - right?
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
This does not take into account the continual massacres.
Davey Jones
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
If I may. Just what do you intend to do with an empty rifle by the front door?
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Actually Ken... You are right... Your gun didn't load itself and go and commit a crime... However, if by putting your gun and ammo out for the taking and unattended... had it been stolen and someone KILLLED someone with it... YOU should be held liable and fined or sentenced to prison time.. That would be the stricter negligence penalties talked about in my post above..
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QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
And his parents should be prosecuted along with him. Just like the mother of the boy who shot my son.. She left a loaded gun in her nightstand and the boy got a hold of it.. Now according to the mother, she and her boyfriend had lectured the boy on guns and the proper handing and how to never touch it.. See how well that worked. Kids are kids and boys certainly will be boys.. That woman should have had some penalty. a fine.. community service... or maybe if things had turned out worse.. prison time.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Data please. Easy to make and repeat this statement but is it even true. For example, when deleting the murders from the four cities, did they also delete the population of those cities? If not the reduction in the murder rate is mathematically incorrect.
Also, why not take out the 4 hotspots from countries like Egypt, Mexico, Russia and South Africa and see how their rates improve.
I know numbers and statistics and this is an example of the abuse of statistics to back up a weak or false argument.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Straw argument for sure. Massacres are epidemic in America, this is a fact. They are escalating. This is a fact also. Imagine,if in Canada that young man who stabbed those people to death at a party. Horrible. What could he have accomplished with firearms????
Jackie22
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northeast Texas
[h=1]Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets[/h]
The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets
Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ark.) authored the controversial 1996 amendment that remains in place. He wishes Congress would change it.
...............
At first, the House tried to close down the CDC's entire, $46 million National Center for Injury Prevention. When that failed, Dickey stepped in with an alternative: strip $2.6 million that the agency had spent on gun studies that year. The money would eventually be re-appropriated for studies unrelated to guns. But the far more damaging inclusion was language that stated, “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”
Dickey proclaimed victory -- an end, he said at the time, to the CDC's attempts "to raise emotional sympathy" around gun violence. But the agency spent the subsequent years petrified of doing any research on gun violence, making the costs of the amendment cleareeven to Dickey himself.
He said the law was over-interpreted. Now, he looks at simple advances in highway safety -- safety barriers, for example -- and wonders what could have been done for guns.
"If we had somehow gotten the research going, we could have somehow found a solution to the gun violence without there being any restrictions on the Second Amendment," Dickey said. "We could have used that all these years to develop the equivalent of that little small fence."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry..._561333d7e4b022a4ce5f45bf?utm_hp_ref=politics
The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets
Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ark.) authored the controversial 1996 amendment that remains in place. He wishes Congress would change it.
...............
At first, the House tried to close down the CDC's entire, $46 million National Center for Injury Prevention. When that failed, Dickey stepped in with an alternative: strip $2.6 million that the agency had spent on gun studies that year. The money would eventually be re-appropriated for studies unrelated to guns. But the far more damaging inclusion was language that stated, “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”
Dickey proclaimed victory -- an end, he said at the time, to the CDC's attempts "to raise emotional sympathy" around gun violence. But the agency spent the subsequent years petrified of doing any research on gun violence, making the costs of the amendment cleareeven to Dickey himself.
He said the law was over-interpreted. Now, he looks at simple advances in highway safety -- safety barriers, for example -- and wonders what could have been done for guns.
"If we had somehow gotten the research going, we could have somehow found a solution to the gun violence without there being any restrictions on the Second Amendment," Dickey said. "We could have used that all these years to develop the equivalent of that little small fence."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry..._561333d7e4b022a4ce5f45bf?utm_hp_ref=politics
Bobw235
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
I thought this column by Nicholas Kristof in Sunday's NY Times was spot on. It makes common sense arguments in favor of ways we might begin to address what's obviously a problem with guns in this country. I personally don't own a gun, but have no desire to have one in my home. I grew up with guns, had one as a kid (a .22 rifle) and took lessons in how to shoot it from the local gun club. I don't have anything against a law abiding citizen acquiring a gun, provided he/she can pass a sensible background check. I support the collection of data on gun violence and feel that there should be limits on the types of weapons that a person can purchase. Anyway, take a look at this article. It just resonates with me as logical and in the best interests of beginning to curb our problem with guns. It's not offering any quick fixes. This is going to take time. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/o...n=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection