"The West Is Lost"

Societies have always risen up and decline and become deceased - no reason not to believe we won't we just don't wanna believe it cos we've had it too cushy for too long!
 

If we are to study the science, and apply all our relevant experience, then we are doing all we can. If we could wish the whole the whole world happy suddenly, the science still says masses of people are suffering. The science says on almost fronts, 2030 is the turning point. Either we treat our world first, or we are going extinct.

We have to reinvent capitalism so it will be used to help people thrive, not to further peoples suffering.
 
Paco Dennis said:
We have to reinvent capitalism so it will be used to help people thrive, not to further peoples suffering.
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When capitalism works as intended, consumer-driven, it benefits everyone. People demand or desire products and services and industry creators meet the demands, simultaneously providing jobs. Capitalism at its best builds cities and supports satisfied workers and cohesive, healthy, secure societies.

But capitalism is warped. It's become investor-driven. To attain ultra-success, industry creators do whatever it takes to attract investors - court Wall Street, lobby congress, change some laws, de-regulate, destroy the competition, create a monopoly, promote, promote, promote....themselves.

It's no longer about consumer demands and desires, it's about attracting wealthy investors. And they get paid first, so industries and corporations raise prices and keep their overhead as low as possible so they can profit as well as their investors.

Anyway, that's the major factor in what went wrong, imo.
 
Murrmurr said:
When capitalism works as intended, consumer-driven, it benefits everyone. People demand or desire products and services and industry creators meet the demands, simultaneously providing jobs. Capitalism at its best builds cities and supports satisfied workers and cohesive, healthy, secure societies.

But capitalism is warped. It's become investor-driven. To attain ultra-success, industry creators do whatever it takes to attract investors - court Wall Street, lobby congress, change some laws, de-regulate, destroy the competition, create a monopoly, promote, promote, promote....themselves.

It's no longer about consumer demands and desires, it's about attracting wealthy investors. And they get paid first, so industries and corporations raise prices and keep their overhead as low as possible so they can profit as well as their investors.

Anyway, that's the major factor in what went wrong, imo.
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You make a well constructed argument about capitalism, and although you don't use the word greed, it comes across in the second paragraph loud and clear. Look at capitalism's history, our prognosis of capitalism's health can be seen in the UK two hundred years ago.

The world's first public railway using steam locomotives to haul both goods and passengers was the Stockton and Darlington Railway, which opened in Northeast England on September 27, 1825. That landmark was significant in that the capital poured in when it was discovered that our tiny island sat on vast reservers of coal. The prolification of the railways and the mining of coal went hand in hand.

Despite those vast reserves, coal is a fossil fuel and one day it will run out. The capitalists just didn't take that into consideration. There was money to be made, and make it they did.
The UK became the world's richest and most advanced nation for much of the 19th century, primarily due to the Industrial Revolution and it's vast colonial empire. However, its economic dominance, characterised by rapid industrialisation and a strong global economic role, declined throughout the 20th century with the rise of other industrial powers and the significant costs of two World Wars.

That's the historical view, do you see any parallels with the rise of the United States economy? Instead of trains and railways think cars, trucks and the internal combustion engine. Like the UK's coal reserves in the 19th century, the United States has vast oil reserves, especially considering its large and historically significant production and exploration efforts. While its share of global reserves fluctuated, the US saw its reserves grow in the first half of the 20th century. Again the money poured in and massive profits were made.

The US, if not already, will learn the British lesson, fossil fuel is finite, use it wisely. Gas, that's petrol in Brit-speak, has always been sold cheaply, Americans would be up in arms if they had to pay that which most of Europe pay, it's the low price that's kept the US at the top for so long, but you have to remember that which I covered before. Fossil fuel is finite.
 
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If we equate how good we are with how much money we have it creates a problem. If we judge success by how safe, happy and healthy a population is we just might have a totally different perspective.
 
horseless carriage said:
You make a well constructed argument about capitalism, and although you don't use the word greed, it comes across in the second paragraph loud and clear. Look at capitalism's history, our prognosis of capitalism's health can be seen in the UK two hundred years ago.

The world's first public railway using steam locomotives to haul both goods and passengers was the Stockton and Darlington Railway, which opened in Northeast England on September 27, 1825. That landmark was significant in that the capital poured in when it was discovered that our tiny island sat on vast reservers of coal. The prolification of the railways and the mining of coal went hand in hand.

Despite those vast reserves, coal is a fossil fuel and one day it will run out. The capitalists just didn't take that into consideration. There was money to be made, and make it they did.
The UK became the world's richest and most advanced nation for much of the 19th century, primarily due to the Industrial Revolution and it's vast colonial empire. However, its economic dominance, characterised by rapid industrialisation and a strong global economic role, declined throughout the 20th century with the rise of other industrial powers and the significant costs of two World Wars.

That's the historical view, do you see any parallels with the rise of the United States economy? Instead of trains and railways think cars, trucks and the internal combustion engine. Like the UK's coal reserves in the 19th century, the United States has vast oil reserves, especially considering its large and historically significant production and exploration efforts. While its share of global reserves fluctuated, the US saw its reserves grow in the first half of the 20th century. Again the money poured in and massive profits were made.

The US, if not already, will learn the British lesson, fossil fuel is finite, use it wisely. Gas, that's petrol in Brit-speak, has always been sold cheaply, Americans would be up in arms if they had to pay that which most of Europe pay, it's the low price that's kept the US at the top for so long, but you have to remember that which I covered before. Fossil fuel is finite.
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Historically, Americans have been superior at 2 things in particular: making the most of what's available, and invention. Over decades, various cheap, safe, infinite, and portable alternatives to fossil fuel have been concocted, invented, and built right here, but never got off the ground.

I bet you don't need 3 guesses as to why that is.
 

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