What's the thinking on Voluntary Euthanasia?

When I tried to reply and answer each question it all appeared as a quote from Phil . That is why it shows as edited so I'll try this.

Phil, I have no problem with supporting life with operations and drugs. If the patient has a hope for a better quality of life and choses to go that route.

I do have a problem with life suport If the patients is brain dead or mentally dead as you put it.

I do not think life and death are equal.

I believe that as long as the spark of life is there,a chance however slim exist.

I read of a case one time of a man and wife found shot to death. Letters written by both of them inicated that she being terminaly ill she begged him to shoot her. He did and then shot himself.

I will say, I do not think that was the way to go. I do not judge them, I can understand why they did. Having said that I CAN NOT say with any certainty that if in the same situation I will not do that.
 

Sid said:
As long as that spark of life is there, there is hope regardless of how bad it looks.
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If I were a zealously religious person, a poet or an incurable romantic I would agree with you.

Unfortunately I've been present with family, friends and total strangers too many times when although there was a spark, there WAS no hope.

Medically speaking there IS a point of no return - we as emotionally-involved beings just don't like to acknowledge that.


I have a problem snuffing out that spark.
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You say that now. I certainly don't wish this upon you, but if the time ever comes when you are in exquisite agony with every breath you take you might feel differently. Again, it ties into making decisions for others that are rightfully theirs to make. We do not - CAN not - know their pain limits, so why should we have the right to dictate when they have been exceeded?
 
SifuPhil said:
If I were a zealously religious person, a poet or an incurable romantic I would agree with you.

Unfortunately I've been present with family, friends and total strangers too many times when although there was a spark, there WAS no hope.

Medically speaking there IS a point of no return - we as emotionally-involved beings just don't like to acknowledge that.




You say that now. I certainly don't wish this upon you, but if the time ever comes when you are in exquisite agony with every breath you take you might feel differently. Again, it ties into making decisions for others that are rightfully theirs to make. We do not - CAN not - know their pain limits, so why should we have the right to dictate when they have been exceeded?
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Phil, As a "zealously religious person" I agree in pulling the plug at the medical point of no return I just have a problem with ME doing something to bring it to an end. That is not to say I won't ask for something or someone to do so or that I will not do so if a loved one asks.
 

Diwundrin said:
I had to come to terms with Mum's decisions at her end. Euthanasia never entered the question in her case, it was simply her body breaking down due sheer old age and pneumonia. It was the question of easing her exit with too much morphine that was the decision I had to take. But I ruled that out as she was determined to live every second of life for as long as she could hang on to it and made that quite plain. Her decision ultimately.

I never understood why, as she was in great pain from arthritis and crushed bones in her spine and every cough was agony. She had no chance of recovery, her organs were shutting down, but I would never for an instant have considered taking steps to over-ride her wishes and hasten her end. To me that really would have been 'murder' and unthinkable.

It was only after two weeks of hell, when she lapsed into incoherence, was no longer strong enough to cough and was literally choking on phlegm that medication was increased to ease her passing in unspoken agreement with an understanding doctor.

There was great sadness, but no regrets associated with her dying. Her decision was given priority for as long as she had comprehension of her circumstances. Her life was 'hers' as long as she wanted. As much as I wished she had asked for an end to it she didn't and that was respected.

People are different and that needs to be acknlowledged and respected. I'm nowhere near as brave as her, and didn't share her beliefs. Life isn't as precious to me, so it's the easy way out if the situation arises for me thanks. Quality over quantity.
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My condolences for the loss of your mother Di, she was a fighter to the end, and it was good of you to be there for love and support. :love_heart: My mother went into the hospital with a diabetic stroke that ended in coma. The doctors said that she had brain stem damage, and even if she came out of the coma, which they doubted, she'd be a vegetable. The had an insulin IV in one of her arms, and a glucose IV in the other. She was breathing, but panting like a dog.

My sister and I considered that we may eventually have to pull the plug for her, as she no longer had any quality of life. That night we got a phone call from the hospital, telling us that she had passed. We rushed down there to say our goodbyes and prayers for her. My hubby and I both have living wills now. We have a one week limit on keeping up alive with mechanical assistance. If I'm in a bad way in the hospital, I have no problem with my husband ordering a DNR. I would definitely consider assisted suicide if I desired it for medical reasons.
 
Diwundrin said:
Bingo!

If we take the ethical stance of non interference or assistance with the dying process to it's extremities then we would never put a band-aid on a cut and could totally dispense with the entire medical profession.

The religiously or just ethically righteous who are so appalled by the thought of easing dying have no compunction in going against 'nature' or 'god's will' in prolonging life beyond reasonable expectation. They want their cake and eat it too. My decisions aren't going to affect their entry qualifications to heaven so what business is it of theirs how and when I want to end it?

Sid you can't be serious in confusing 'voluntary euthanasia' with 'selective killing'... murder?? C'mon! Really??

Those who have no wish to be associated in any way with 'assistance' are not expected to be involved at all so I find that a rather selfish stance to take.
No one's personal principles should be forcibly imposed on those of different opinion where it doesn't affect anyone except the individual person. It's not meant as a blanket rule for society in general, just a right to be accessed by individuals with need to exercise it.
Why is the state of mind of anyone not sharing a belief in sanctity of life at all costs brought into question and over-ridden as being inferior to and therefore not worth the same rights of easy death as the pet dog?


Voluntary means exactly that. A personal decision affecting no one but the individual involved.
There would be no need for 'assistance' in the vast majority of cases because it doesn't take a lot of effort to swig a dose of Nembutal.

No one even need 'assist' by picking it up at the pharmacy, it can be ordered online and delivered to the door. If some people would just let us get it past the cops.
:aargh:
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Diwundrin, As a "religiously or just ethically righteous" person, I believe I have already made the point I agree with pulling the plug and ending life support if that is the patients will. Is that prolonging life beyond reasonable expectation? Yes, my thoughts are influenced by my religious beliefs. I have simply stated them and have not tried to force them on anybody.
As for 'voluntary euthanasia' yes that was a serious question. I believe what you are talking about is the taking of on'es life. This may come as a shock to you but I understand why someone would. Not to many years ago I begin to have suicidal thoughts. Because of my personel beliefs I felt I better do something about it.
 
Sid said:
Phil, As a "zealously religious person" I agree in pulling the plug at the medical point of no return I just have a problem with ME doing something to bring it to an end. That is not to say I won't ask for something or someone to do so or that I will not do so if a loved one asks.
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That makes perfect sense, Sid. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I'm sure I wrote about it somewhere else on this forum before, but rather than spend hours looking for it I'll just mention again that I was directly involved in helping my older brother achieve release from unbearable pain. We had had a "pact" among we three brothers that if one were to be "beyond hope" (a judgement call, I know, but we each had our own guidelines) the other(s) would do whatever they could to ease their pain.

I know it goes against many religious strictures and against many laws, but the way we always saw it was that the person and their wishes came first.

So yes, I had to actively participate in the ending of a life, and I don't regret it for a moment.

... but that's just me.
 
SifuPhil said:
That makes perfect sense, Sid. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I'm sure I wrote about it somewhere else on this forum before, but rather than spend hours looking for it I'll just mention again that I was directly involved in helping my older brother achieve release from unbearable pain. We had had a "pact" among we three brothers that if one were to be "beyond hope" (a judgement call, I know, but we each had our own guidelines) the other(s) would do whatever they could to ease their pain.

I know it goes against many religious strictures and against many laws, but the way we always saw it was that the person and their wishes came first.

So yes, I had to actively participate in the ending of a life, and I don't regret it for a moment.

... but that's just me.
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Fortunate for me Phil I have yet to be put in that situation. I am sure you did not take it lightly.
 
Sid said:
Fortunate for me Phil I have yet to be put in that situation. I am sure you did not take it lightly.
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I think the taking of a human life, for whatever reason, always changes a person. I'm not so sure about the mentally infirm, though ... I don't know what they think or feel about the process.

Of course, a lot of police departments and the entire FBI would like to know that as well.
 
Diwundrin said:
1) Why? How is drinking Drano okay but accessing a substance to ensure a perfectly peaceful death isn't??

2) Why do they consider it a favour to society to make people suffer unnecessarily?

3) If they don't approve they can go as hard as they like but they have no 'right' to force others to do likewise.

4) What's the thinking?
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1) Because the authorities will decide for you what is in your best interest.

2) You are owned by the government, you are their property.

3) Funny how people choke and gag when someone forces something objectionable down their throat, but they breathe quite easily when they force something down someone elses throat. Kinda hypocritical, huh?

4) They have some right or superiority over others.
 
SifuPhil said:
I think the taking of a human life, for whatever reason, always changes a person. I'm not so sure about the mentally infirm, though ... I don't know what they think or feel about the process.

Of course, a lot of police departments and the entire FBI would like to know that as well.
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I agree Phil.
 
Thought I'd send this link of a dying Doctor from Canada who speaks about this very topic on a very personal level. The video is 7 minutes long but well worth the time to watch. I won't get into his background as it is all in the written text that goes with the video, but he was very well respected and obviously still had a solid thought process. You'll also see where our Government has said it will not open the debate of Dr. assisted suicide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3jgSkxV1rw
 
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TICA said:
Thought I'd send this link of a dying Doctor from Canada who speaks about this very topic on a very personal level. The video is 7 minutes long but well worth the time to watch. I won't get into his background as it is all in the written text that goes with the video, but he was very well respected and obviously still had a solid thought process. You'll also see where our Government has said it will not open the debate of Dr. assisted suicide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3jgSkxV1rw
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His talk about the symptoms of his tumor touches me. I think about the possibility of losing many of those same body functions if the arthritis just below the base of my skull asserts itself, if a sudden stop - while riding in a car shifts everything, or if more pressure develops during one of the times when I turn my head and hear that cracking sound.

brain stem location 1.jpg

I hope I am fortunate and everything stays put, but I am a realist.

It would be nice if a lab developed some sort of medical duck tape.

Thanks for posting this. I know some people who need to see it.

:cool:
 
Mercy, I hope your arthritis doesn't bring on something so severe...wishing you the best. :love_heart:
 
SeaBreeze said:
Mercy, I hope your arthritis doesn't bring on something so severe...wishing you the best. :love_heart:
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Aw thanks.

It's something I am aware of. There is no way to train arthritic osteophytes to grow in a different direction.

Actually, I'd like to train mine to jump through hoops and land in my knees or hips instead. I'd much rather have one of those joints replaced!

:cool:
 
My mates wife just passed away last Saturday. We have known each other for 54 years, I was their best man at their wedding.
Pat had been ill with breast Cancer which finally attacked her brain. After seeing her during the last two month deteriorate &
suffer so much>>> I think a person should have the right to say when to go. Whenever we visited her in Hospital I would hold
her hand and she would say"Please ask them, to let me go"!....At last she is at peace!!!
 
So sorry to hear about your mate Gdad, she should have had the right to say i wish to die and her wishes granted, i watched my Father die a slow death from cancer and to have had the power to end all pain for him would have been a god send
 
Sorry for the loss of your friend's wife GDAD, may she rest peacefully. :rose: My sister suffered also before passing from cancer (or the chemo and radiation), I don't want to be kept alive like that either. Jillaroo, my condolences for the loss of your father.
 

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