Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
I hope so.
Baby boomers have now 'gobbled up' nearly one-third of America's wealth share
- Thread starter spectratg
- Start date
JBR
Well-known Member
I think you're right. There are elements involved that go beyond how individual persons and households spend and invest their money. In relation to any nation, masses of people would need to understand the situation and vote to change the conditions you're speaking of. It would require vision, well-founded understanding, and collaborative will.
I personally believe we in the developed nations are now also dropping there ball (or have gone slack) in dealing with the environmental and biospheric (climate) challenges.
Dr.Colosso
Member
Holland. And they complain that the whole world wants to come here to get a free house and free money, like from Morocco and Syria and I'm like: Oh now all of a sudden you think it's unfair? But when it was a white Dutch person it was always fine.
When I was pregnant I worked until 2 weeks before giving birth. Had to go with the train and bus. In the train you had to stand or sit on the stairs. Lot of stress at work. I come in church. 3 able bodied guys with a fatzo govt house and a govt income were talking to each other about what fun stuff they were gonna do this week cause neither one of em worked for years. One of them had and still has a for me gigantic house alone, meant for a family.
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Dr.Colosso
Member
It's not just old people and rich people taking advantage of others. Almost everyone does, even if you don't want to. Temu shop like a billionair. Indeed like a billionair, totally evil and corrupt. Even kids are forced to produce this insane cheap luxury nonsense. Ramsey: eat rice with beans. Yes who cares how hard these people work who harvest the rice and how lousy they get paid.
In Holland you're forced to set money aside for your pension if you work for a boss. You just don't get it and they invest it. Imagine you're a vegan. They invest in the pig industry. Tiny country, pigs live crammed under horrible circumstances, chickens and the Polish and Ukrainian are used as slaves to get the harvest in, pluck apples, work in slaughter houses for lousy pay. And all clothing companies let the people in poor countries do the work. A few pay them normal. One day it's gonna explode.
In Holland you're forced to set money aside for your pension if you work for a boss. You just don't get it and they invest it. Imagine you're a vegan. They invest in the pig industry. Tiny country, pigs live crammed under horrible circumstances, chickens and the Polish and Ukrainian are used as slaves to get the harvest in, pluck apples, work in slaughter houses for lousy pay. And all clothing companies let the people in poor countries do the work. A few pay them normal. One day it's gonna explode.
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Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Since the U.S. lacks a traditional hereditary aristocracy (like kings or lords), money became the primary "yardstick" for status.
Achievement and Success: Sociologists like Robin Williams Jr. have identified "Achievement and Success" as a top American value. Because success is abstract, it is often quantified through visible markers: houses, cars, and net worth.
The Protestant Work Ethic: Historical roots in Puritanism linked hard work and material prosperity with moral "goodness." This has evolved into a modern cultural tendency to see wealth as a reflection of an individual’s talent or effort.
Individualism: Because Americans prize the "self-made" individual, wealth is often viewed as a "scorecard" for how well a person has utilized their freedom and opportunities.
Now it is profit that rules our world, and this problem is world wide. I was just reading Reddit and someone posted this this morning.
For me, its deeply disturbing, these are the primary items that keep me up at night:
Anonymous
Achievement and Success: Sociologists like Robin Williams Jr. have identified "Achievement and Success" as a top American value. Because success is abstract, it is often quantified through visible markers: houses, cars, and net worth.
The Protestant Work Ethic: Historical roots in Puritanism linked hard work and material prosperity with moral "goodness." This has evolved into a modern cultural tendency to see wealth as a reflection of an individual’s talent or effort.
Individualism: Because Americans prize the "self-made" individual, wealth is often viewed as a "scorecard" for how well a person has utilized their freedom and opportunities.
Now it is profit that rules our world, and this problem is world wide. I was just reading Reddit and someone posted this this morning.
For me, its deeply disturbing, these are the primary items that keep me up at night:
- The killings, the deaths - Innocence destroyed.
- The constant modern genocide - happening since 1940s.
- The insult - the attempt to control of the narrative, killing of journalists the control of the environment.
- The deep root - The tumor that seems to have infiltrated the political scene in countries across the world using money and manipulation.
- The evil - I never thought I would hear such blatant evil in modern world. The way they talk about other humans and the ongoing events.
- Occupation - The control and long term ill will towards a populace with no chance or will to mend bridges but build resentment and long term problems with a single mission statement, but just a seemingly needed justification on when to pull the next trigger.
- Technological destruction - How a dominant group of humans destruction/oppressions over an opponent that has no chance. Assassination's using long range weaponry constantly.
- The divine - How the religious narrative interpretation seem to give a people a divine right to be superior humans and carry out such atrocities.
- Suppression of speech - The application of anti-Semitic such tools, to suppress any discussion or any support for a people, very aggressively shut down any vocal truth discussions/ protests online or offline.
- Psychopathy tendencies - for the world to see, the blatant brainwashing and drive of a military that seems to have bread murderous psychopaths' such as letting a young boy bleed out in front of them and then run him over with a bulldozer.
- Weak global leadership - The horrendous realization that the weak leadership globally are complicit and that there is no actual moral virtue and this whole thing has deeply smeared how we look at the west and UN especially.
- Insult to intelligence - regarding ceasefires, starvation, flow of aid. The whole narrative makes my skin crawl when there are MANY reports/video footages/ doctors interview/ real life accounts on the ground and its the absolute opposite.
Anonymous
Dr.Colosso
Member
This is so weird. I also see that in my country with protestants, reformed, but also other denominations, evangelicals. Why don't they feel guilty when they're rich and spend it on themselves? When I read texts or heard em in church like: the rich fool piled money up for himself or the rich guy and the poor Lazarus: I always felt guilty when I had 200 extra.
For instance if my ex couldn't eat cause he used to be a pastor and they don't pay pastors here. A couple in his former church bought a new kitchen and went on a fancy holiday, letting him serve them for free, while he went to the food bank on a bike he borrowed from me. How can I then be so antisocial to save hundreds or thousands and give him nothing and let him be kicked out of his house? But most don't feel guilty at all.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Status is a tough one to give up. Some people do better than others when they become wealthy with helping the less fortunate.
What I find strange is that the masses think they understand how capitalism works for them, most of us don't know how the big money supply chain operates.
But we go on buying all the wealthy have to offer us, or collect things or find happiness in the simple things, and not worry our selves over these injustices that are too big for any one person to do anything about. Find a nice place in society to maximize ones pleasure seems to me how America shows the world how we overcome our collective neglect of social concerns. I fail to see how this list differs from any list that could have been compiled in the last 500 years or so. The great mass of people are much better off than they used to be. Global poverty is down dramatically. Just in the US, the incidence of poverty has decreased since 1960 and violent crimes are down over the last 30 years.
When I was a child, we used to worry about the threat of monolithic, atheistic communism. That went away. Other things took its place. Life goes on.
At 73, I hold much more wealth than I did at 45. I've paid off my mortgage and saved through SEPs and 401ks. I didn't "gobble up wealth" but I did get older and my investments increased over time.
That said, I do feel that younger folks have a raw deal due to ridiculous tuition costs, house prices and wages not keeping up with inflation. We need to get the superannuated politicians out of office and bring in people with new ideas.
Michael Z
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Wisconsin
I did not plan to be as well off as I am now. We just lived modestly in our older home I fixed up myself, drove old cars, had invested money taken out of my paycheck on a regular basis, and stayed out of debt. It certainly did not seem like we were gobbling up anything in our household but rice, beans, boiled eggs, deer meat, some chicken, and an occasional pot roast. But when the house was paid off and the pension plus social security kicked in, I suddenly had money to buy things like a snowblower instead of breaking my back snow shoveling.
I don't personally see any disgrace in any level of wealth my generation has accumulated. I certainly will not advocate any naive notion of wealth redistribution. No one allowed me to borrow money to get an education and then told me not to have the expectation of repayment. As a matter of fact between the GI Bill education benefit as a Vietnam veteran and two part time jobs I paid for my entire education as I went along.
I didn't have any friends that I recall who might be classed as failure to launch personalities. Like most of those around me I hustled and got employment at the highest level I could. Thanks to a very common sense wife we saved money, and provided I think well for our children. I'm very proud to say I see that same type of focus in our children and now in their children.
After a forty-four year career I'm glad our property is paid for and we probably have some wealth to pass on to our heirs when we leave this world. I didn't gobble up anything. I got up off my keister and worked for it. Those who disagree with that ethical possession they're part of the problem not the solution. Maybe I should get down off my baby-boomer soap box now.
There was an earlier thread on this and I'll repeat my response.
My father was a successful businessman and looked after every penny because he was a Depression-era baby. He left me his estate, but most was spent on caring for my mother, including assisted living, for 21 years. I made most of my money myself.
This Boomer mowed lawns and washed cars for spending money until I was old enough to get a real job. When I did, I was always willing to work nights and weekends in retail if it meant more sales. I worked my a** off in every job, and when I became successful I socked away everything I could into my 401K. I spent 20 years at my last company and received a nice severance package for doing so. I've invested for 40 years to make that money grow.
I'm not ashamed for being comfortable because I put my life into my career, at times sacrificing my personal interests. There were many times I gave up nights and weekends or was traveling while Hubs stayed at home. But now we can both stay at home and enjoy our time together.
The Millennials and Gen Zers I hired prior to retirement, for the most part, had no such work ethic. There was no loyalty to the company nor any interest in longevity as an employee. If they saw a job that paid more or required less effort, they moved on. If they were allowed to work at home, they virtually "disappeared", never responding to phone calls or emails. They were belligerent about taking every day of vacation. In short, they were not willing to sacrifice anything at all.
In my view, most of the younger generation have no interest in getting their hands dirty. This is one of the reasons trades like electricians, plumbers, etc. need people. Most want to be in the tech industry or want to be "influencers". They want to start at the top, not work their way up. So, if they resent what I've achieved as a Boomer so be it.
My father was a successful businessman and looked after every penny because he was a Depression-era baby. He left me his estate, but most was spent on caring for my mother, including assisted living, for 21 years. I made most of my money myself.
This Boomer mowed lawns and washed cars for spending money until I was old enough to get a real job. When I did, I was always willing to work nights and weekends in retail if it meant more sales. I worked my a** off in every job, and when I became successful I socked away everything I could into my 401K. I spent 20 years at my last company and received a nice severance package for doing so. I've invested for 40 years to make that money grow.
I'm not ashamed for being comfortable because I put my life into my career, at times sacrificing my personal interests. There were many times I gave up nights and weekends or was traveling while Hubs stayed at home. But now we can both stay at home and enjoy our time together.
The Millennials and Gen Zers I hired prior to retirement, for the most part, had no such work ethic. There was no loyalty to the company nor any interest in longevity as an employee. If they saw a job that paid more or required less effort, they moved on. If they were allowed to work at home, they virtually "disappeared", never responding to phone calls or emails. They were belligerent about taking every day of vacation. In short, they were not willing to sacrifice anything at all.
In my view, most of the younger generation have no interest in getting their hands dirty. This is one of the reasons trades like electricians, plumbers, etc. need people. Most want to be in the tech industry or want to be "influencers". They want to start at the top, not work their way up. So, if they resent what I've achieved as a Boomer so be it.
Dr.Colosso
Member
Why should they get their hands dirty? The whole system is unfair. The ones who do the hardest lousiest work get paid the least. That a doctor or someone who does other really hard difficult work, gets more, of course, but how is it fair that I earn more cosily drawing maps behind my desk from home 3 days a week than my son who works for 8 euro an hour in the grocery store and first he got 6 an hour. They have age discrimination here. I was 26 and did the same work as 2 16 year old girls. I got 10 an hour more just for being old. How totally unfair.
My dad forced me to study because he saw his mom work in laundry houses and psychiatric hospitals. Hard full time work for lousy pay. I'm glad I listened, but it's not fair. They call my country a knowledge economy. That's a fancy word for: We're too lazy to do hard bad paid jobs and rather let people from other countries do that.
And now they expect the youth to go serve them? Haha forget it. Why should they. Studying doesn't cost much, so everyone here wants a cosy desk job. But the funny thing is that now plumbers, painters etc are so scarse and people have no clue what to do, so they can ask loads for it. Why not. It's harder work than sitting behind a desk.
Oh that reminds me. Once a couple in church needed help. Guy had a very well paid desk job. He complained that his wife, who he got from Colombia, didn't want sex. She said she was too tired. What was the case? Mr. sat behind his desk and her diploma didn't count here, so he let her pluck apples 5 days a week. Unbelievable. He did listen. She then could be a housewife.
I am lazy myself. They warned us in primary school that communism was bad because if everyone gets the same why would you do effort and that's what they do now. I studied, nice part time job. I get 2000. Someone with no job and kids gets 2000. Someone with a bad paid part time job gets extra's from the govt and also gets 2000.
Why on earth would I go work 5 days? I'd have to give the extra away as taxes. I'm rather lazy than tired. Why would I expect my sons to slave away and be taken advantage of? If they'd get a great paid hard job they get a wife who spends it and chills. That's also a reason. Women here never wanted to work full time and they wanted equality and men are now like: Why should I slave away?
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Brookswood
Senior Member
Perhaps people should consider that many baby boomers did not earn much of a pension. IRA’s and 401K’s more or less forced them save money in their personal accounts for retirement. The stock markets went up over a few decades, so now they have a nice pile of money. This money was not taken from others who are more deserving. It was created by economic growth, which most of us contributed to via our labor.
Had they not saved, invested and let their money grow and grow, they would probably need some for of public assistance to survive in today’s high cost world. Then the same people complaining about Boomers having too much wealth would be complaining that they are soaking up too many tax dollars. And, those lazy, good for nothing Boomers should have saved more when they were working.
Had they not saved, invested and let their money grow and grow, they would probably need some for of public assistance to survive in today’s high cost world. Then the same people complaining about Boomers having too much wealth would be complaining that they are soaking up too many tax dollars. And, those lazy, good for nothing Boomers should have saved more when they were working.
Our son-in-laws father recently passed away following a long and deteriorating illness. He was by all accounts a very successful and wealthy business man. More important to me is the stellar example he lived by. Knowing him and being a close friend for nearly 25 years I was very comfortable with his humility. Not everyone can count their in-law parents as close friends, and we feel very fortunate that was the case.
This man was a baby boomer the same as I am, but I assure you his accumulated wealth was self earned, but his generosity was simply part of his character. He and I talked many times about family, church, a little about politics, but mostly about what was important to us in life. I will miss this good friend, and recognize that it was my privilege to have him in my life.
This man was a baby boomer the same as I am, but I assure you his accumulated wealth was self earned, but his generosity was simply part of his character. He and I talked many times about family, church, a little about politics, but mostly about what was important to us in life. I will miss this good friend, and recognize that it was my privilege to have him in my life.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Isn't your son still a teenager or in his early twenties and full time students? Presumably he's working for pocket money rather than supporting a household. Teen minimum wages are also often less than adult in the US (though rarely in California).
Employers of teens must consider kids' serious scheduling constraints and lack of experience.
You were paid more at 26 because adult needs, experience and availability are greater.
Doesn't your map drawing job require greater skills than grocery clerking? In the US, more in-depth or rarer skills are rewarded with higher paychecks.
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
Payroll savings had a great deal to do with what I have today.
Pay yourself first, live on what’s left.
Dr.Colosso
Member
But a 14 year old gets even less than a 16 year old for the exact same work. Both have zero expenses. I think it's unfair. The owner's family does nothing and gets loads of money while the only ones working in the grocery store are underpaid teens. But the teens don't care.
Worst off are immigrants who are taken advantage of.
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Seems like you hit some the right paths as you went along. Living within your means, saving, staying out of debt is really a big one. Not trying to be overly synical but I don't think it is reasonable for the very young to expect to have the same level of income that is enjoyed by one with developed skills.
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
I absolutely agree but I also trained many young folks that made more money than me on how to do their jobs.
Education and degrees are fine but they are no substitute for experience.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
I suppose it's up to the 14 year old whether the wages offered are sufficient compensation to entice him/her to work.
I did some babysitting before turning 16, and was paid much less than minimum wage, but it was worth it to me. I was grateful for the opportunity to earn some pocket money.
Turned 16 and got a part time job working a bakery counter for a little over minimum wage.
Worked fast food during college years, also for a bit over minimum wage.
It seemed fair to me to receive minimal wages at jobs that required a minimal skill set plus offered an individually tailored schedule to suit my specific commitments.
When it was time to move on with life, I put food services and other low skill jobs behind and started working career-building employment, beginning at the bottom in what was then known as an entry-level position. With time and experience my skills increased. I became a more valuable employee, was trusted with more responsibility, and my salary increased commensurately.
Is this not how it works in Holland?
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RambleTamble
Member
- Location
- U.S.
One of the main reasons boomers control so much of the wealth is due to real estate. We were able to buy when housing was cheap. A three bedroom ranch house that went for $70,000-$80,000 in the '80s and '90s now goes for $500,000 or more! So we really didn't need to do anything other than buy a house.
Dr.Colosso
Member
Yes the teens are like: What are you complaining about? They don't care at all. I just think it's not fair, but if you later get a better job or a cheap house then indeed who cares. It's just lousy for the ones who have no other choice than to always do lousy low paid jobs. My son went to a horeca school. Only not Arabic or Ukrain speaking person there. No Dutch teen wants to do that work because they take advantage. These guys work 7 days a week. My son quits and goes to the easy school to go make nice movies and get paid better.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Had to look up "horeca" which turns out to be training for the hotel and hospitality industry. In the US, most hospitality jobs are considered low skill and therefore pay minimum wage or slightly above.
Upper management members earn good wages, but general staffers do not. Head chefs do ok, line cooks not so much. Like I said, low skill. That's probably why it's a stepping stone industry for immigrants here, and apparently also in Holland.
If your son went back to school to train for a career with more promising earning opportunities, kudos to him.
I don't understand why you seem to be so angry about this.
Fair is such an arbitrary word. Age really isn't the driver of a positive work ethic. As I grew up the fast food jobs were a stepping stone for first job youngsters. It was a starting point or maybe just a place for a young person to earn some pocket money. I never saw such employment as a place to make a living. I saw how my parents and siblings developed skills and made themselves more and more marketable as employees.