Ashford Borough Council (GB) stops pub's service of free taxi transport

Hopefully the Council and Mr. Hartfield can come to an agreeable solution where they are both
happy and can still have the ride offering. To me it seems it is a situation that is new and the
Council is not sure how to make sure all proceeds are visible and accounted for.
We know how they MUST know where the money goes.
I sure hope they work it out and the rides can still be going.
 
IrishEyes said:
Hopefully the Council and Mr. Hartfield can come to an agreeable solution where they are both
happy and can still have the ride offering. To me it seems it is a situation that is new and the
Council is not sure how to make sure all proceeds are visible and accounted for.
We know how they MUST know where the money goes.
I sure hope they work it out and the rides can still be going.
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He's giving people a lift...why is that even the council's business? It isn't.

wth??
 
No you see.. at first glance people think the council are being mean... but their not... Black Cabs have to be licenced, and as a driver charging a fare..however small you then have to be a licenced cab driver... all of which this pub landlord is not.

he bought the cab for the sole use of driving people home for a small fare... he can't do this, it's against the law.

he can certainly use his own private vehicle and have people make a donation... but not a Black Cab... ...

BTW did you know Prince Philip owned and drove a black Hackney cab whenever he was out and about in the city...alone...
 
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In the letter, they added that Mr Hartfield's initiative saw a vehicle provided ā€œin circumstances where the provision of the vehicle accrues a business benefitā€.

It isn't, though; it's a charity benefit, And it's voluntary.

If Mr Hartfield has to get a license, can he also claim his expenses when he files his taxes? That car wasn't free and the petrol isn't free, and then there's wear and tear on the car and the tyres, there's oil changes and cleaning, driver license renewal...none of that's free.
 
hollydolly said:
No you see.. at first glance people think the council are being mean... but their not... Black Cabs have to be licenced, and as a driver charging a fare..however small you then have to be a licenced cab driver... all of which this pub landlord is not.

he bought the cab for the sole use of driving people home for a small fare... he can't do this, it's against the law.

he can certainly use his own private vehicle and have people make a donation... but not a Black Cab... ...

BTW did you know Prince Philip owned and drove a balck cab whenever he was out and about in the city...alone...
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If someone buys an old used police car, do they have to go to a police academy? No, right? That's their private vehicle. And if people can take a ride in it just for the novelty of it by donating to a charity, that isn't a business.

Well, not here, anyway.

If the issue was liability insurance, that would make sense, but clearly, this is not a business, it's a private charity.
 
Murrmurr said:
If someone buys an old used police car, do they have to go to a police academy? No, right? That's their private vehicle. And if people can take a ride in it just for the novelty of it by donating to a charity, that isn't a business.

Well, not here, anyway.

If the issue was liability insurance, that would make sense, but clearly, this is not a business, it's a private charity.
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No you're missing the point, if you're going to take passengers..paying passengers, whether it's called a donation or direct charge, you are a business, and Hackney Cabs have to be licenced..

if he's driving the car solely for pleasure he's perfectly able to do so... but he's not, he's charging customers.....regardless of where the money (fare) is going.. so by law he needs a licence !
 
I understand what the law may say, Holly. But I would hope there is a loop hole that can be found to get around something that is intended for charity purposes.

It sounds like some of the small local governments here getting involved in things that they should be supporting. He's intending to raise money for charity, which in this case is for medical purposes.

This also serves another purpose keeping intoxicated drivers off of the roadway which is a safety issue. Here, if a bar owner is found liable to over serving a customer who is involved in a fatal accident, they may be sued in civil court.
 
hollydolly said:
No you're missing the point, if you're going to take passengers..paying passengers, whether it's called a donation or direct charge, you are a business, and Hackney Cabs have to be licenced..

if he's driving the car solely for pleasure he's perfectly able to do so... but he's not, he's charging customers.....regardless of where the money (fare) is going.. so by law he needs a licence !
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That makes this much sense: 0.

Charity is not a business enterprise. It just isn't. Here, you do need a permit from your county to setup an ongoing charity, like Mr H's. It's not a license, it's just to make sure donations aren't counted as taxable income, and it gives the county permission to do an annual audit if they want to, to make sure the donations go where they're supposed to go.

I wish I could read the exact law(s) that council is using. I suspect they're either misinterpreting it or misusing it.
 
Murrmurr said:
That makes this much sense: 0.

Charity is not a business enterprise. It just isn't. Here, you do need a permit from your county to setup an ongoing charity, like Mr H's. It's not a license, it's just to make sure donations aren't counted as taxable income, and it gives the county permission to do an annual audit if they want to, to make sure the donations go where they're supposed to go.

I wish I could read the exact law(s) that council is using. I suspect they're either misinterpreting it or misusing it.
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he's not an official charity.. and even if he was he can't use a Hackney Cab.. and take fares for it without a licence ! Simple as that...
 
Lilac said:
I understand what the law may say, Holly. But I would hope there is a loop hole that can be found to get around something that is intended for charity purposes.

It sounds like some of the small local governments here getting involved in things that they should be supporting. He's intending to raise money for charity, which in this case is for medical purposes.

This also serves another purpose keeping intoxicated drivers off of the roadway which is a safety issue. Here, if a bar owner is found liable to over serving a customer who is involved in a fatal accident, they may be sued in civil court.
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In that case why buy a Hackney Cab which has to be licenced.

he can take them in another vehicle, his own personal car... which doesn't need licencing.. but he's being ridiculous , another person acting the vitim when they're not following the law
 
hollydolly said:
he's not an official charity..
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True. He's a private charity.
hollydolly said:
and even if he was he can't use a Hackney Cab.. and take fares for it without a licence ! Simple as that...
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Maybe if he uses a different car, they'll leave him alone. I feel really bad for Mr H, doing 2 great things...keeping drunk drivers off the road and donating money to the MNDA because his friend suffered with it...and getting hassled for it.

And I'm not even saying the council is being mean. I'm saying they're probably mistaken. Through an American's eyes, they definitely are, but Mr H should look into it.
 
Murrmurr said:
True. He's a private charity.

Maybe if he uses a different car, they'll leave him alone. I feel really bad for Mr H, doing 2 great things...keeping drunk drivers off the road and donating money to the MNDA because his friend suffered with it...and getting hassled for it.

And I'm not even saying the council is being mean. I'm saying they're probably mistaken. Through an American's eyes, they definitely are, but Mr H should look into it.
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thats's what I've been saying all along... use a different car.. simple !
 
hollydolly said:
In that case why buy a Hackney Cab which has to be licenced.
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He's not driving for the Hackney Cab company, though. He's not a Hackney Cab employee. That's where I see a key diference.
hollydolly said:
he can take them in another vehicle, his own personal car... which doesn't need licencing.. but he's being ridiculous , another person acting the vitim when they're not following the law
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Would it help if he painted the cab any color but black, like maybe pink? Call it The Pink Elephant?
 
No..because all Hackney cabs are not black there's plenty pink ones , blue ones, white ones..they are all London Hackney cabs..which need a licence... if you're going to charge a fare...


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Champions%20league%20Taxi.jpg

RM-Taxi.jpg
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traditional-taxis-on-the-streets-of-london.jpg
 
hollydolly said:
No..because all Hackney cabs are not black there's plenty pink ones , blue ones, white ones..they are all London Hackney cabs..which need a licence... if you're going to charge a fare...
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That's the sticking point, imo. He isn't charging a fare, he's asking for a voluntary donation.

Also, it doesn't make sense (to me) that his cab requires a license when it's no longer affiliated with the Hackney Cab company. It is now a privately owned vehicle.

Like, here, when you buy a retired cop car, cab, school bus, golf cart, etc., it is doesn't have to have the specific license it required when it was in service. It is no longer performing that service, and isn't owned by a company, organization, government, or district. It's privately owned.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm thinking that's what the council is missing. Depends on the wording of the law or laws they're using.
 
simply owning a
Hackney cab does not permit you to charge for rides. It is illegal to ply for hire or charge for transport without a valid taxi driverā€™s license, vehicle license, and specialized insurance. You must be a licensed taxi driver, and the vehicle must be registered with the local council.
Key Requirements to Legally Charge Passengers:
  • Driver Licensing: You must personally hold a hackney carriage driverā€™s license (e.g., passing a DBS check, medical, and "The Knowledge" in London).
  • Vehicle Licensing: The vehicle itself must be licensed by the local authority, tested, and fitted with a calibrated taximeter.
  • Insurance: You need specialized carriage insurance, not standard personal car insurance.
Important Distinctions:
  • Plying for Hire: Only licensed Hackney carriages can be hailed on the street or wait at taxi ranks.
  • Private Hire: If you drive a black cab without the proper licenses, you are acting as an illegal taxi (often called a pirate taxi).
  • Decommissioned Cabs: If you buy an old, decommissioned black cab, it is just a private car and cannot be used for commercial hire.
If you wish to operate, you must apply to your local council to become a licensed taxi driver and license your vehicle accordingly.
 
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