I am an Atheist and always have been.
- Thread starter Bretrick
- Start date
RambleTamble
Senior Member
- Location
- U.S.
I'm an atheist, but I love me some good gospel music! 
Messy
Member
Yeah but atheists always have such high demands. Look here's a guy who got raised from the dead with a picture from the morgue and they interview the doctor who declared him dead and the morgue guy. They don't believe it.
Or like my dad, he saw it first hand. My aunt from Australia had a brain tumor and didn't even recognize her kids anymore. My dad told me that. I threw her name in the prayer basket in church. We prayed with the whole church for all the names in the prayer basket. The next day she calls my mom that God has done a miracle. My other aunt, my dad took her to a church meeting and she got prayer and got healed from cancer.
My FIL, we prayed with church, cancer was spread and he got an xray and it was gone and the doctors said: Your God has done a miracle. Now someone who doesn't know us may think it's made up nonsense or lies or just a coincidence, but my dad knew them and was so impressed that he told the neighbour to go there, but still he did not believe in God. How on earth?
I had a dream about him once in which he said: I cannot believe like you and your mom and in the dream I asked if I could pray for him so God would reveal Himself to him. Eventually he did get saved, but for me that would have been enough proof. He was way more intelligent though. He used his brain and I don't hahahahahahaha serious I think that's why it was easier for me.
Messy
Member
The guy from the church we went to was Jan Zijlstra. He always prayed for everyone. They came to his meetings also from reformed churches, cause their churches don't pray like that for the sick.
It was in the Newspaper and a doctor looked into it with a team from a university. But all they can say is: We can't explain it.
Redirect Notice
Fact or fiction? Chronically seriously ill people cured by praying
It seems like a story from the Bible: in 2007, wheelchair patient Janneke Vlot stood up after eighteen years and could suddenly walk again. By her own account, this was thanks to a prayer healing service. It intrigued general practitioner and researcher Dick Kruijthof from Bleskensgraaf, and more than twelve years ago he asked the question: is there an explanation for this type of healing or not? Now he has the answer. Or does he?
Patients who have been healed of their illness as a result of a prayer. It is a subject that most people have an opinion on, says Kruijthoff. "It is something unknown to many people, but now we know more."
After an appeal by the GP and his team, it turns out Janneke Vlot is not the only miracle. "We received 83 registrations. We investigated 27 cases, 11 of which were 'medically remarkable'. Unexpected healings were observed here."
Not just a common cold
These cases are not just about a common cold. "Usually, it is a serious chronic disease such as Parkinson's or Crohn's disease. You sometimes see a slight improvement with these diseases, but never so suddenly."
Unexpected cures
In *Het Kontakt*, the general practitioner describes miraculous stories he encountered during his research. "A woman who could walk a maximum of fifty meters on crutches due to severe multiple sclerosis had started praying more because of her illness. She planned to attend a prayer service. It didn't come to that; after an afternoon nap, all her symptoms turned out to have disappeared."
Even if the patient does not count on a cure, things can turn out well through prayer. "Another woman with various illnesses actually prayed to end her life. The next morning she walked down the stairs and suddenly realized that it went almost effortlessly. In the weeks that followed, almost all her ailments disappeared. Of the 33 pills she used to take, she now takes only 1."
Too good to be true
Kruijthoff was unable to find a genuine scientific reason for these events in his research. "There is no direct explanation. The only thing we can observe is that something special happens at these moments." Additionally, the GP says he discovered that when someone recovered from illness, it often happened after prayer.
However, he does not speak of a breakthrough for patients; that would be too good to be true. "At work, I see many people praying for healing; this much more often doesn't happen."
For Kruijthoff, not much changes regarding the way he carries out his daily work as a GP either. "As a GP, I have always based my work on science; that does not change. People expect me to work in an expert manner."
It was in the Newspaper and a doctor looked into it with a team from a university. But all they can say is: We can't explain it.
Redirect Notice
Fact or fiction? Chronically seriously ill people cured by praying
It seems like a story from the Bible: in 2007, wheelchair patient Janneke Vlot stood up after eighteen years and could suddenly walk again. By her own account, this was thanks to a prayer healing service. It intrigued general practitioner and researcher Dick Kruijthof from Bleskensgraaf, and more than twelve years ago he asked the question: is there an explanation for this type of healing or not? Now he has the answer. Or does he?
Patients who have been healed of their illness as a result of a prayer. It is a subject that most people have an opinion on, says Kruijthoff. "It is something unknown to many people, but now we know more."
After an appeal by the GP and his team, it turns out Janneke Vlot is not the only miracle. "We received 83 registrations. We investigated 27 cases, 11 of which were 'medically remarkable'. Unexpected healings were observed here."
Not just a common cold
These cases are not just about a common cold. "Usually, it is a serious chronic disease such as Parkinson's or Crohn's disease. You sometimes see a slight improvement with these diseases, but never so suddenly."
Unexpected cures
In *Het Kontakt*, the general practitioner describes miraculous stories he encountered during his research. "A woman who could walk a maximum of fifty meters on crutches due to severe multiple sclerosis had started praying more because of her illness. She planned to attend a prayer service. It didn't come to that; after an afternoon nap, all her symptoms turned out to have disappeared."
Even if the patient does not count on a cure, things can turn out well through prayer. "Another woman with various illnesses actually prayed to end her life. The next morning she walked down the stairs and suddenly realized that it went almost effortlessly. In the weeks that followed, almost all her ailments disappeared. Of the 33 pills she used to take, she now takes only 1."
Too good to be true
Kruijthoff was unable to find a genuine scientific reason for these events in his research. "There is no direct explanation. The only thing we can observe is that something special happens at these moments." Additionally, the GP says he discovered that when someone recovered from illness, it often happened after prayer.
However, he does not speak of a breakthrough for patients; that would be too good to be true. "At work, I see many people praying for healing; this much more often doesn't happen."
For Kruijthoff, not much changes regarding the way he carries out his daily work as a GP either. "As a GP, I have always based my work on science; that does not change. People expect me to work in an expert manner."
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-Oy-
Bloke with a camera
- Location
- Lancashire
I have memories of going to church and Sunday schools as a child. Boring? Not at all - I found it quite interesting and to this day I find ornate churches and cathedrals lovely to photograph. It's just a shame that all that money gets spent where it could be better spent helping people in need. Any belief in religion and it's trappings ended when my young mind started asking difficult questions and my budding scientific and enquiring mind was less than happy with the answers. Getting a clip round the ear for not being happy with "because it says so in the Bible" didn't help. I could go on
Messy
Member
A clip round the ear, wow that's so bad. My son was 4 and asked me difficult questions non stop like: Why did God create satan, why are there earthquakes, stuff like that. I did so much effort to answer his questions or look it up if I didn't know. My brother was just like that as a kid and my mom said that she said: Yeah ehh what do I know? Ask the reverend. Which reverend? They didn't even go to a church.I have memories of going to church and Sunday schools as a child. Boring? Not at all - I found it quite interesting and to this day I find ornate churches and cathedrals lovely to photograph. It's just a shame that all that money gets spent where it could be better spent helping people in need. Any belief in religion and it's trappings ended when my young mind started asking difficult questions and my budding scientific and enquiring mind was less than happy with the answers. Getting a clip round the ear for not being happy with "because it says so in the Bible" didn't help. I could go on
My son was so funny when he was small. He'd ask these questions with an accusing tone, like he was accusing God. I have it on video that we're in a playground and he's filming, but the sun shines in his eyes and he says, irritated: Hè! Why did God have to make the sun? It shines in my eyes. Then you hear me. Well because otherwise it would be dark and we would see nothing. He, irritated: But I see nothing!!!!! Hilarious.
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I had to laugh on this, when my grand daughter, aged 4 at the time, and I were in the yard she saw a bee on the deck and sat watching it. She softly said "Why did God put stingers on bees? If they wouldn't hurt me I would pick it up and feel it's fuzzy little body and be a friend to it"
If you read my posts and some others then you had to see their are some that respect whatever a person chooses to lean to.
People that want to talk calmly about their beliefs and why, and not try to push me to drop mine, I respect them for that.
If I don't respect them it's not because of their belief but the attitude.
Why do these kind of conversations have to end up a battle one way or other with many people?
I like to hear reasons people believe as they do, it's how I learn to accept and understand them
That's awesome!!
It is difficult sometimes for Christians to deal with really great questions from "nonbelievers" or young, inquiring minds... especially with the "accusatory tones".
I try my best these days not to feel attacked or "canceled", or whatever anymore and just try have answers to the fundamentals of why I believe, what I believe... and then be totally comfortable with saying I don't have the answer to your great question, but if you give me some time, I'll do my best to find the answer. If the asker is actually interested, they'll wait and allow it... if they're just looking to argue... then they've won their victory. Yay, them! Big deal. 
Teacher Terry
Well-known Member
If there was a God the holocaust wouldn’t have happened. Many religious wars have killed millions of people. So some people pray and are healed and others pray and they are not worthy?
People have been killing one another over religion since the beginning of time. Religion was a way to explain morals and phenomenon to people that were highly uneducated and ignorant centuries ago. Now it’s become a great way to control people and take their money.
We now have science to explain how am things happen. You can help people and care about others and live via a moral code without believing in God. In fact, I have known people that never miss going to church on Sunday and yet would never help anyone. They didn’t seem to care about this planet and other human beings.
People have been killing one another over religion since the beginning of time. Religion was a way to explain morals and phenomenon to people that were highly uneducated and ignorant centuries ago. Now it’s become a great way to control people and take their money.
We now have science to explain how am things happen. You can help people and care about others and live via a moral code without believing in God. In fact, I have known people that never miss going to church on Sunday and yet would never help anyone. They didn’t seem to care about this planet and other human beings.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
On the basis of known facts, there are obvious reasons increasing numbers of people in this modern era have become atheists or agnostics. It is also true, many older people have lived their lives, are tired and diminished, so don't care if their existence ends forever. I wish to live forever.
Went to 11am mass yesterday, that was Palm Sunday, with a lengthened gospel period reading Mathew's passion of Christ. Our church each Sunday has 4 English masses and 2 Spanish masses with a seating capacity of 1200 people. One of the most ethnically diverse groups in the nation. And it was full yesterday.
Although I choose to believe in Jesus Christ, my religious ideas as I've posted herein numbers of times, have very different aspects than that any of Christian denominations. As a strong science person, I do seek eternal life and understand scientifically how that may be possible. Jesus very clearly told those who seek eternal life to attend the church Peter was the first to lead and to consume his Bread of Life, so I do. A small weekly burden.
Went to 11am mass yesterday, that was Palm Sunday, with a lengthened gospel period reading Mathew's passion of Christ. Our church each Sunday has 4 English masses and 2 Spanish masses with a seating capacity of 1200 people. One of the most ethnically diverse groups in the nation. And it was full yesterday.
Although I choose to believe in Jesus Christ, my religious ideas as I've posted herein numbers of times, have very different aspects than that any of Christian denominations. As a strong science person, I do seek eternal life and understand scientifically how that may be possible. Jesus very clearly told those who seek eternal life to attend the church Peter was the first to lead and to consume his Bread of Life, so I do. A small weekly burden.
Lawrence00
Senior Member
I have my own ideas about the nature of God and the Angels.
I do thank God every morning for having been graced with another day. Each breath is a gift.
This magical place was never meant to be a Disney Movie, though I really like Uncle Remus and Mister Bluebird.
I do thank God every morning for having been graced with another day. Each breath is a gift.
This magical place was never meant to be a Disney Movie, though I really like Uncle Remus and Mister Bluebird.
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Messy
Member
I saw an answer from OneforIsrael on 'Where was God during the holocaust?' The answer: in the concentration camps. Corrie ten Boom and her sister were in a camp for saving Jews. All christians should have done that. She asked them and a lot refused to risk their lives. And then God gets the blame.
There has always been war. Started with Adam's sons. Satan hates people, but Israel in particular. Often you hear that people don't believe satan or demons exist. They say it's such nonsense. And preachers sometimes say it's because he doesn't want people to know he exists. Well. That demon that tormented me couldn't even pretend to not exist. Must be cosy if you're so privileged that you don't believe demons exist.
I fell from my faith after I divorced and my kids were stolen by a bitch judge. 3 month old baby. I prayed, but God didn't give them back. I was not mad at Him though because I have never been in a 'God is sovereign and can just do what He wants' church. If He could the whole world would be christian and there would be peace on earth.
Anyway at last I came to the point that I doubted if He even existed, but then I thought: There is overwhelming evidence of satan all over the world, so He must exist too and I asked Him to forgive my sins and come back in my heart and I broke up with the guy I was living together with in sin.
Got the kids back half the time. Years later my ex sil again tried to set my ex up against me. He wanted to go to Germany and take the kids. She just lied to him. I could show him. I saw a preaching from Jan Zijlstra on youtube. He said: Fear not. Within a week the whole thing was blown off. This time God could help me because I was not living in sin.
horseless carriage
Well-known Member
In centuries past when church attendance was mandatory, openly admitting to being an atheist would have carried dire, often fatal, consequences. In European society between roughly 1500 and the 18th century, religious disbelief was viewed not just as a mistake, but as a dangerous heresy and treason against the state, potentially leading to execution, torture, or severe social ostracism.
Today it would seem that the world has turned full circle, believing in God in modern, secularized, academic context can invite derision, a phenomenon described by believers as intellectual condescension. This perception is driven by several factors:
Cultural Shifts, in many Western societies, identifying as a devoted Christian, particularly in evangelical terms, is increasingly seen as a cultural outlier, sometimes leading to marginalisation.
Intellectual Challenges, religious faith is often accused of disregarding scientific reasoning and evidence, leading to the view that believers are willfully ignorant.
New Atheism Influence, the rise of perspectives that view religious belief as irrational, often highlighting potential conflicts with science or promoting reasonable secularism, creates an environment where faith is questioned or mocked.
The Problem of Evil, intellectual arguments against God often cite historical and modern tragedies, arguing that belief in a benevolent God is untenable.
For me, belief in God is a faith stance, a personal commitment, rather than a logical conclusion drawn from scientific evidence. As one perspective notes, if belief were purely logical, faith would not be necessary.
Today it would seem that the world has turned full circle, believing in God in modern, secularized, academic context can invite derision, a phenomenon described by believers as intellectual condescension. This perception is driven by several factors:
Cultural Shifts, in many Western societies, identifying as a devoted Christian, particularly in evangelical terms, is increasingly seen as a cultural outlier, sometimes leading to marginalisation.
Intellectual Challenges, religious faith is often accused of disregarding scientific reasoning and evidence, leading to the view that believers are willfully ignorant.
New Atheism Influence, the rise of perspectives that view religious belief as irrational, often highlighting potential conflicts with science or promoting reasonable secularism, creates an environment where faith is questioned or mocked.
The Problem of Evil, intellectual arguments against God often cite historical and modern tragedies, arguing that belief in a benevolent God is untenable.
For me, belief in God is a faith stance, a personal commitment, rather than a logical conclusion drawn from scientific evidence. As one perspective notes, if belief were purely logical, faith would not be necessary.
MACKTEXAS
Well-known Member
Earth is not a perfect utopia, but rather a temporary place—often described in the Bible as a journey. And believers aren't insulated from the misfortunes of life. If that were the case, all would go well only for those of faith. Suffering, injustice, and imperfections are expected characteristics of the current world. Heaven is viewed by believers as the final destination where all things are restored, tears are wiped away, and pain ceases.
MarkD
Keeper of the Hounds & Garden
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
Definitions are a dime a dozen and are we qualified to choose between them?
Online most atheists will self define as having no belief in gods whereas most Christians seem to think an atheist is someone who believes there is not God.
As a dyed-in-the-wool agnostic I realize factual knowledge about God is unavailable. Hard core atheists will read that as making their case while fundamentalist Christians will dispute my claim that it is unknowable. I don't know how to help the atheists but to the fundies I say that is why you need to struggle to keep faith.
Just because certainty of the kind science pursues is unavailable doesn't mean there is no other way. Educated people can usually agree on the meaning of a poem or novel where science is of no help. Sometimes you have to read between the lines and use your feeling to find the truth. But there is not and never will be a double blinded experiment which will settle the matter.
Beyond belief in deities we can still ask the big questions: who are we, why are we here and does it matter what we do? Those questions led me to believe there is something greater which made us and our quality of consciousness possible. I believe some things are sacred and that it does matter what we do - though not for the sake of some later life beyond death. It matters because everyone of us is from the same source and to honor the source we must honor each other. That means respecting each other's right to make sense of the cards they were dealt.
MarkD
Keeper of the Hounds & Garden
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
I've also heard earth called the vale of soul making. Here we develop our understanding and that shapes who we become and how we live. Here we develop a world view which gives meaning to life.
MACKTEXAS
Well-known Member
*Yes, and struggles with faith are common with believers, even those who don't admit it.
**Not all of us; not me - but I would add this:
Even atheists trust and believe in things they cannot know for certain - such as the love of others, the stability of the future . . . and at least some degree of faith (however small it may be) that the car coming down the road behind them will stop before rear-ending them at the redlight.
And I would add the following from a post I made long ago in another thread:
"Religious and spiritual beliefs are often deeply subjective, personal, and vary greatly from person to person. Such beliefs often rely upon interpretation and individual perspectives, rather than empirical proof.
In response to the atheist's claim that believers have a 'burden of proof,' - - that concept is crucial in many contexts, but it does not necessarily apply to individual beliefs. A person is free to hold whatever beliefs they like without needing to prove them to anyone else."
MarkD
Keeper of the Hounds & Garden
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
Completely agree. Often they have faith that science will eventually answer all questions, presumably even questions of meaning and purpose. Even when I was confused enough to think I must be an atheist since I lacked belief in any god, I still always trusted my intuition in literary questions.
For me it took a couple years to read through The Matter With Things whose 28th and final chapter is titled The Sense of the Sacred to realize it was fine to realize the something more I'd always depended on inside could be called God too. That is different from thinking I am smart enough to figure out everything on my own. It is only believing I can recognize truth when I hear it; not infallibly but to a useful degree.
I don't hate you, you've done nothing to me. I have made peace with many who have and even forgave some many wouldn't have.