What would happen if college was free for all students?

Murrmurr said:
@squatting dog and @C50

Apprenticeship programs still exist. Most of them are related to every aspect of construction, but technology-related apprenticeship programs are exploding.

But there are a lot fewer than there were, say, 40-50yrs ago. I think most of the current ones are through workers union
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I know of Machinist Apprenticeships, Tool and Diemaker Apprenticeships, Plumber Apprenticeships. Electrician Apprenticeships,
HVAC Apprenticeships and more.
 
Would likely become like many community colleges seem to have become with significant numbers without anything better to do, like a working career or job, going to their local community colleges and then bringing along the same non-serious attitudes they did in high school where its more a convenient excuse to continue to socialize with others of like age. Also, many HR, human resource departments of corporations, have schemed with colleges to only bother looking at resumes with college credits or degrees, while instantly tossing those with just solid work experiences, despite such often being more important.

Note, this person doesn't have any college degrees, just a few credits. I did go to military electronics schools during the Viet Nam
War, but far far more of my education came from self reading technical and science books during my later working years. One of the first things I did, during my first civilian job that was in Palo Alto near Stanford, was going through page by page, the whole 640 page Texas Instruments, The TTL Data Book for Design Engineers, that had schematic drawings of internal device structures, figuring out how those digital circuits worked internally.
 
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I financed my last two years of undergrad and much of grad school by giving some of my young adulthood to the USN. For me the GI Bill was a Godsend and changed my life. Unfortunately lots of worthless training was included in the program so far too much money was wasted.
 
Well, prior to 1998, in the UK, university (college) was free in the UK. Funding came from the tax payer.

I can't think of too many benefits from having an uneducated populace. And in my life time, a college education has been considered essential for my jobs/roles.

But then, like everything, it has become corrupted by greed. For example, the "success" of a college is often measured on how many students graduate with a degree, which appears to have the net effect of lowering standards in order to keep the marketing looking good.

Also, costs are now largely too high, and we've lost any sight of joined up thinking - what are we educating people for? When it's on the public dime, I think we should be helping to build a greater future, ensuring people have the skills to be successful in the society they'll function in. When it's paid for privately - well, I guess if you want to study flower arranging, then knock yourself out. So, when I was a lad, there was a new emphasis on Computer Science (as it was called then). This helped people get ready for the world we live in.

One problem today is that there seems to be a demand that a college education should guarantee employment. That seems to be regardless of the subject studied. It seems to only be dawning on people now that things don't work that way. Also, student loans are handed out too easily to 18 year olds, at obscene interest rates, that shackle them for decades.
 
oldman said:
I know of Machinist Apprenticeships, Tool and Diemaker Apprenticeships, Plumber Apprenticeships. Electrician Apprenticeships,
HVAC Apprenticeships and more.
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I don't know if they're still doing it or not, but a few years ago some healthcare facilities in the region offered free CNA classes for individuals who agreed to work there for a specific period of time afterward. I thought that was a good idea.
 
Theoretically, we could have AI professors in the near future with students learning from home, which would eliminate the need for college and university campuses. We already have online college classes, but anybody who has ever taken one of them knows they're really awful. It's been some 15 years since I took one, so they might have improved since then, but I doubt it. With AI, we could have actual lectures on the subject matter and even discussions. I guess, along with that, the AI professor would evaluate your contributions and knowledge. It could quiz you and test your ability to think logically.

Most of the cost of colleges and universities these days isn't with professors, though; it's with administration. Many of those jobs could be replaced by AI.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an AI professor. Unless you're doing research, college professors are just regurgitating what's in the textbooks. AI professors would be perfectly suited for something like that.

So with AI taking over much of the teaching and administration, and with less need for large campuses, college could be free without much cost to taxpayers.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
I just happened to find what you posted. I am not getting notifications of my quoted posts most of the time.

There is a possibility that eliminating the Federal Dept. of Education could happen, but it will require an act of Congress.

However, it's a viable option I suppose, since AI says Implementing a national free college program for all could cost approximately 58 billion in the first year and 800 billion over a decade, and goes on to say, "The U.S. Department of Education's total outlays for fiscal year 2024 were approximately $268 billion, representing about 4% of total federal spending."

Abolishing the Dept. of Education would shift much responsibility to the states as well as to the Dept. of Health and Human Services, which, as we know, oversees CMS, and therefore, Medicare.
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If we could rely on the Constitution and Supreme Court rulings alone, I wager at least 100 federal regulatory and guideline agencies could be eliminated. Probably over 200. And I'm referring to regulatory and guideline agencies only, not investigative agencies such as the FCC.

Most regulatory agencies at the federal level are duplicates of state regulatory agencies. Simply put, they're toilets that flush trillions in tax dollars. Our federal income tax would be greatly reduced if these redundant agencies were eliminated, and states could raise their taxes to improve their functionality, including social services, according to their industry and the needs of their citizens.
 
RambleTamble said:
Theoretically, we could have AI professors in the near future with students learning from home, which would eliminate the need for college and university campuses.
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Experiencing campus schedules, learning, and community is educational.
RambleTamble said:
We already have online college classes, but anybody who has ever taken one of them knows they're really awful. It's been some 15 years since I took one, so they might have improved since then, but I doubt it.
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There are some really good ones. The awful ones are easy to spot, but you do have to thoroughly explore their websites and compare them to others to weed out the awfuls.
RambleTamble said:
With AI, we could have actual lectures on the subject matter and even discussions. I guess, along with that, the AI professor would evaluate your contributions and knowledge. It could quiz you and test your ability to think logically.
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Currently, university students can attend lectures on various online platforms, such as YouTube and Rumble, and even ones like X and Kick.
RambleTamble said:
Most of the cost of colleges and universities these days isn't with professors, though; it's with administration. Many of those jobs could be replaced by AI.
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💯% correct.
RambleTamble said:
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an AI professor. Unless you're doing research, college professors are just regurgitating what's in the textbooks. AI professors would be perfectly suited for something like that.
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I don't think so. None of my professors just regurgitated what was in text books. That was a long time ago, but current classes that are recorded and posted online show professors who really engage with their students, and who sometimes get into various philosophies and new research, models, and findings related to the subject, which isn't found in textbooks.
RambleTamble said:
So with AI taking over much of the teaching and administration, and with less need for large campuses, college could be free without much cost to taxpayers.
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AI administrators could do a bang-up job, I bet. Practically for free.
 
oldman said:
I know of Machinist Apprenticeships, Tool and Diemaker Apprenticeships, Plumber Apprenticeships. Electrician Apprenticeships,
HVAC Apprenticeships and more.
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You know Mike Rowe...the guy who hosted the TV show Dirty Jobs? He's head of mikeroweWORKS Foundation, which states; "For nearly two decades, we've championed the skilled trades through the largest scholarship program in the country." It runs on donations from private, industry, and commerce sources.

Young men and women can go to his website and apply for all kinds of skilled-trade scholarships, including for what he calls "AI-proof six-figure jobs."
 
RambleTamble said:
Most of the cost of colleges and universities these days isn't with professors, though; it's with administration. Many of those jobs could be replaced by AI.
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I have zero knowledge about this and I can accept that as true, but on the surface it doesn't seem right. Are we talking about more administrators than professors? Fewer administrators, but with much higher salaries?

As a student, the value of the education seemed directly proportional to the quality of the instructors, rather than the quality of the administrators. I understand the necessity of administration, but it seems like a lesser part of the service.
 
People that are dedicated would not be blocked by excessive tuition, room and board. People deserve a chance.

There would not be much of a rush for foo foo degrees as even dumb people don't want to spend years of their life and end up with no payday. Especially if foo foo degrees were not included in the free tuition plan.

Mike Rowe's ideas are good. Many community colleges are affordable and lead to jobs as well even today.
 
It used to be so much more was expected from high school students.
Many entering college have to do remedial classes just to start from the starting line. far too many just passed along IMO

Too many do not respect anything that is "free" ... they do not put in any more effort than high school.

Mike Rowes program is for 2-year type degrees or certifications. many types of careers. I saw a show about it and some fuss and holler about following the program rules and walk away. Look up his S.W.E.A.T pledge he asks them to sign. very common-sense things but some have taken issue with it.

I have known people with a lot of college and more than one degree but zero common sense or the ability to think on their feet.

earning something and paying for it makes MOST value you it much more than something for free.
 
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