I am an Atheist and always have been.

Vida May said:
That works for many people regardless of their religion. I think that is fine on a personal level, but it may not be good for our shared political decisions. When deciding what a child should learn, or what to do about criminals, and how to judge welfare needs, we might make better decisions with better knowledge of humans in animal bodies.
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What a child should learn is how to deal with the world he has been brought in to. Politics have nothing to do with this. The 10 commandments are still strong, viable and appropriate. The decency, caring and concern that people show has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with people trying to do the right thing in living their own lives and being there for their neighbors. You or I are not qualified to determine someone's need. Be it welfare or food stamps. Doesn't matter. Not your concern or mine. Life appears to be unfair. Join the club! We are all members.
On the other hand we have been blessed with far more than we deserve. Count your blessing, love your children and be grateful. Otherwise find a better way....................which you won't. But if you do then please change the world.
 
Vida May said:
I am in agreement with what you said but I wonder how your understanding of God is not contaminated by religion. Does Jesus play a role in your understanding of God?
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Has nothing to do with religion. it is simply getting down on your knees and praying to your creator. Very simple but complicated for most.
No religion, no doctrine. Just you calling out to your creator. He will respond.
 
rbtvgo said:
The decency, caring and concern that people show has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with people trying to do the right thing in living their own lives and being there for their neighbors.
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Sadly, if there's one trend I've seen over the last couple decades is a constant walk away from being compassionate, neighborly, and caring about the greater good. There's far more "me", "I", and "I'm going to", going on now. Too many people have a "I'm happy, and that's all that counts", or "I did it, so why can't everyone else", as though we are born with equal opportunity, knowledge, needs, and desires.

I grew up on a street where everyone knew everyone else. Mothers would visit at lunch time for team and biscuits and gossip, they'd shop together. The men would trade skills, decorators would decorate, car mechanics would fix cars, and so on. All the kids would play football together etc. A community.

Now..... well I have a rock drummer who I speak to, but most of everyone else around me are near strangers. Community has been lost, and given the way politics are going, I can only see it getting worse.
 
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When i said punishment i meant it as discipline so that one learns not like punishment as you are viewing it.

I would not trust science with the well being of my spiritual soul.

In the end, we will know whether or not science is right. Myself personally, I trust in the God I can't see because I know he's there. He's shown himself to me on many different occasions.

I truly hope you find whatever it is you are looking for. For now, I've said all I need to in this thread. Have a good night.
 
rbtvgo said:
Has nothing to do with religion. it is simply getting down on your knees and praying to your creator. Very simple but complicated for most.
No religion, no doctrine. Just you calling out to your creator. He will respond.
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🙂 Does getting down on my knees and praying include touching my body to make the sign of the cross and burning candles to increase the chance of me being protected and saved? Does this work when we are drinking polluted water or lack the knowledge to grow food efficiently? Is it possible we need to learn about things besides the Bible and account for our intelligence rather than remaining ignorant and trusting a god to take care of us?

Did Noah save rats by putting them on the ark? Why did God create deadly diseases carried in water and by rats? Why doesn't the Bible tell us that washing our hands is necessary to avoid diseases, instead of living people with a superstition of the importance of cleanliness that set medical care back to a time of complete ignorance? And how about the story of how humanity survived the ice age? That is more interesting than Adam and Eve and a snake making us afraid of desiring knowledge. Or are you arguing that Christians do not accept the Bible as the authority of God's truth?

I do not like arguing these religious considerations with Christians, but I must argue for learning and reasoning based on the scientific method. I also must argue that morals are extremely important, and morals do not depend on religious notions. I think religious people hold some false ideas that are harmful to humanity and the planet. Such as believing we need to be saved by a god instead of being saved by science from the horrors of ignorance and superstition.
 
MarciKS said:
In the end, we will know whether or not science is right.
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That is hilarious. If you are older than 35 or know of people who are older than 35, you have all the proof that is needed to know science is right. You are holding false beliefs if that is not obvious to you, and this matters because of little decisions, such as war, are based on what one believes.

Science and democracy go hand in hand, and those who stand against that are a problem in realizing the New Age, a time of high tech. and peace, and the end of tranny.

I do not worry about my soul because I feel the love and my oneness with the universe. I also believe morals are essential and God does not need us to kill "those people".
 
rbtvgo said:
What a child should learn is how to deal with the world he has been brought in to.
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That is obvious, but does it mean education for good moral judgment and citizenship, or education for technology for military and industrial purposes, and learning to hate communists, people who look different, Muslims, Arabs, Jews? We create our reality, so what should we know?

Politics have everything to do with anything said of humans. We create our reality, and hopefully, we have consensus on the best reasoning when we make our laws and policies and create institutions through which we manifest what is so. This should not be a popularity contest, but decisions based on knowledge and morals. A god who tells his people to take land and kill everyone already occupying that territory, is a moral problem. 😤 A god who says only Hebrews cannot be made slaves, because of their special relationship with God, but says they can have slaves that their children inherit and creates different rules for slaves than the rules we use for "us", is a moral problem. 😤 The US war on evil is a moral problem directly connected to oil and economics.

Most, if not all, civilizations have had the equivalent of the 10 commandments. One of my strongest objections to what is said is the ignorance of others, and out of that ignorance, believing the rest of the world is evil, and as the Bible says, it is a good thing to destroy the evil in the rest of the world. Sorry, Christians do not get the prize for morality and the 10 commandments.

Humans reason, and good reasoning is moral reasoning. There is no better way than democracy and reasoning together to identify needs and create ways to meet them. That is what separates humans from animals. Religions seem to be the worst barrier to actualizing the human potential of creating heaven on earth. They are all pious and like to believe they are better than "those people" while they destroy the planet and the lives of so many "others".
 
According to Christian theology and various biblical interpretations, the devil frequently uses people as "tools" to plant seeds of doubt in believers. While doubt can also arise from a person’s own heart or rational mind, Scripture and theological teaching often highlight Satan’s strategy of using human relationships, false teachers, and societal systems to undermine faith.

How the Devil Uses People to Plant Doubt

Manipulative Relationships: The devil may enlist individuals within close relationships—such as spouses or friends—to use manipulative language that subtly causes a believer to question God's love or their own worthiness.

False Teachers: Satan uses "false teachers" to promote wrong doctrines or twist Scripture, leading believers away from the truth and causing confusion about their salvation.

Societal and Intellectual Systems: By shaping cultures and secular philosophies that normalize sin or deny God's existence, the devil creates environments where doubt is "planted" through the words and beliefs of others.

Direct Interaction (The "If" Strategy): Just as the serpent used a question to make Eve doubt God’s word ("Did God really say...?"), people influenced by the enemy may use "ifs" to challenge a Christian’s faith, such as questioning if God truly cares given certain difficult circumstances.

No matter what you say, you will never change my mind Vida. You can laugh and mock all you want. But I wonder if you're just trying to convince yourself that you're right and you don't like being disagreed with. Take care of yourself. I'm no longer responding to this thread.
 
Vida May said:
That is obvious, but does it mean education for good moral judgment and citizenship, or education for technology for military and industrial purposes, and learning to hate communists, people who look different, Muslims, Arabs, Jews? We create our reality, so what should we know?

Politics have everything to do with anything said of humans. We create our reality, and hopefully, we have consensus on the best reasoning when we make our laws and policies and create institutions through which we manifest what is so. This should not be a popularity contest, but decisions based on knowledge and morals. A god who tells his people to take land and kill everyone already occupying that territory, is a moral problem. 😤 A god who says only Hebrews cannot be made slaves, because of their special relationship with God, but says they can have slaves that their children inherit and creates different rules for slaves than the rules we use for "us", is a moral problem. 😤 The US war on evil is a moral problem directly connected to oil and economics.

Most, if not all, civilizations have had the equivalent of the 10 commandments. One of my strongest objections to what is said is the ignorance of others, and out of that ignorance, believing the rest of the world is evil, and as the Bible says, it is a good thing to destroy the evil in the rest of the world. Sorry, Christians do not get the prize for morality and the 10 commandments.

Humans reason, and good reasoning is moral reasoning. There is no better way than democracy and reasoning together to identify needs and create ways to meet them. That is what separates humans from animals. Religions seem to be the worst barrier to actualizing the human potential of creating heaven on earth. They are all pious and like to believe they are better than "those people" while they destroy the planet and the lives of so many "others".
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Your last three posts are your opinion, Vida May, which we respect as your right to have and hold. But they are not facts.
As a matter of fact, of facts we know nothing.
 
MarciKS said:
According to Christian theology and various biblical interpretations, the devil frequently uses people as "tools" to plant seeds of doubt in believers. While doubt can also arise from a person’s own heart or rational mind, Scripture and theological teaching often highlight Satan’s strategy of using human relationships, false teachers, and societal systems to undermine faith.
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Skepticism is a rational human condition, and necessary for investigation and advancement of knowledge. Whether doubt comes from your own heart, rational mind, or someone else's, no Devil is required to stop bright minds from searching for testable answers and reporting this to others.
 
Vida is angry, upset and at wits end. I wish there was one sentence. one word that could reach her. She is one of us so think carefully about how you respond.
God is in charge. Nothing that takes place is beyond His understanding. you may not understand and I can assure you that I do not understand either. But I rest in the fact that He does.
It's not politics or religion. It is simply a matter of dealing with the concerns of your life with him or without him. That's it!
For others that find this thread boring or ridiculous.....leave. No one is keeping you here. If you are interested, as I am because of the responses and comments, then stick around. I don't have the answers. I don't. know what the facts are. I do know that I struggle with the same questions as expressed here. I do know that I believe in Gods existence in my life. I do know that I can not understand him and what he doe and what he allows to happen. Yet I trust that he does. .
Faith? I suppose, but it gives me comfort.
In all my years I find that God has watched over me.
 
Vida May said:
That is obvious, but does it mean education for good moral judgment and citizenship, or education for technology for military and industrial purposes, and learning to hate communists, people who look different, Muslims, Arabs, Jews? We create our reality, so what should we know?

Politics have everything to do with anything said of humans. We create our reality, and hopefully, we have consensus on the best reasoning when we make our laws and policies and create institutions through which we manifest what is so. This should not be a popularity contest, but decisions based on knowledge and morals. A god who tells his people to take land and kill everyone already occupying that territory, is a moral problem. 😤 A god who says only Hebrews cannot be made slaves, because of their special relationship with God, but says they can have slaves that their children inherit and creates different rules for slaves than the rules we use for "us", is a moral problem. 😤 The US war on evil is a moral problem directly connected to oil and economics.

Most, if not all, civilizations have had the equivalent of the 10 commandments. One of my strongest objections to what is said is the ignorance of others, and out of that ignorance, believing the rest of the world is evil, and as the Bible says, it is a good thing to destroy the evil in the rest of the world. Sorry, Christians do not get the prize for morality and the 10 commandments.

Humans reason, and good reasoning is moral reasoning. There is no better way than democracy and reasoning together to identify needs and create ways to meet them. That is what separates humans from animals. Religions seem to be the worst barrier to actualizing the human potential of creating heaven on earth. They are all pious and like to believe they are better than "those people" while they destroy the planet and the lives of so many "others".
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Excellent post, VM.

Religion is too often used as a weapon, whether it be to demean an idea, or an entire people. It is too often used as an excuse to hate on others. It is used as justification for all kinds of heinous acts. And yes, that extends to the Bible. The Old Testament is a litany of horrendous actions in the name of a God (but tends to get brushed under the carpet because hey, there was a do-over with a new covenant.)

When I look at the leaders in the US - and I'm talking business leaders not simply political ones - it is laughable to consider them Christian. IMO YMMV. Parts of the US are Christian in life and action, but more or it isn't, even if they want to wear religion as a blanket.

Perhaps unlike you, I do not believe democracy needs a God. But it does need morality, ethics, and honesty.
 
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rbtvgo said:
Vida is angry, upset and at wits end. I wish there was one sentence. one word that could reach her. She is one of us so think carefully about how you respond.
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I'm not picking that up from her writing. Maybe you just want her to be at her wits end, because honestly, you sound like the preacher pounding on his pulpit thinking that outshouting reason will bring the demons into submission. And when they don't, you describe them as you would wish them to be. Describing others in such a negative light is not going to win you converts.
 
VaughanJB said:
When I look at the leaders in the US - and I'm talking business leaders not simply political ones - it is laughable to consider them Christian. IMO YMMV. Parts of the US are Christian in life and action, but more or it isn't, even if they want to wear religion as a blanket.
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Reminds me of what a preacher once said.


In the early 1950’s the notorious gangster Mickey Cohen attended a meeting where Billy Graham spoke. He expressed some interest, so several, including Graham and J. Edwin Orr, spoke personally with him about Christ, but he made no commitment. But later another Christian man shared the gospel with Cohen and urged him, based on Revelation 3:20, to invite Jesus into his heart. Cohen prayed with this man to receive Christ.

Cohen later attended a Billy Graham crusade, but his life after this showed no signs of change. He distanced himself from the man who had shared the gospel with him and began to hang around with his underworld cronies again. When the Christian tried to help him, Cohen complained, “You didn’t tell me that I would have to give up my work [being a gangster]! You didn’t tell me that I would have to give up my friends [other criminals]!” He had heard that there were Christian movie stars, Christian athletes, and Christian businessmen. He assumed that he could be a Christian gangster!
 
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