I am an Atheist and always have been.

[VaughanJB]

Reminds me of what a preacher once said.


In the early 1950’s the notorious gangster Mickey Cohen attended a meeting where Billy Graham spoke. He expressed some interest, so several, including Graham and J. Edwin Orr, spoke personally with him about Christ, but he made no commitment. But later another Christian man shared the gospel with Cohen and urged him, based on Revelation 3:20, to invite Jesus into his heart. Cohen prayed with this man to receive Christ.

Cohen later attended a Billy Graham crusade, but his life after this showed no signs of change. He distanced himself from the man who had shared the gospel with him and began to hang around with his underworld cronies again. When the Christian tried to help him, Cohen complained, “You didn’t tell me that I would have to give up my work [being a gangster]! You didn’t tell me that I would have to give up my friends [other criminals]!” He had heard that there were Christian movie stars, Christian athletes, and Christian businessmen. He assumed that he could be a Christian gangster!

There are an awful lot of people who don't display christian values whilst claiming a relationship with God. This can easily be highlighted today. It is very very clear that the primary driver of things isn't faith in a God, but is instead a grab for money and influence.

In religious terms, you can apparently you can be forgiven for anything. That includes even the most heinous acts. As long as someone is sincere, and belief is there, forgiveness is given. This seems like a "get out of jail free" card to me. Yes, the faith has to be sincere, but then that's not our decision to make, instead it's some being somewhere else. But forgiveness of the individual won't undo the horrors they may have committed. It won't compensate those who suffered through horrendous acts. It doesn't return stolen wealth, nor empty the pockets of the thieves.

I admit, I hold on to a different point of view that means there are certainly acts you can do that remove you from consideration of any kind of humanity.

 

[Messy]

There are an awful lot of people who don't display christian values whilst claiming a relationship with God. This can easily be highlighted today. It is very very clear that the primary driver of things isn't faith in a God, but is instead a grab for money and influence.

In religious terms, you can apparently you can be forgiven for anything. That includes even the most heinous acts. As long as someone is sincere, and belief is there, forgiveness is given. This seems like a "get out of jail free" card to me. Yes, the faith has to be sincere, but then that's not our decision to make, instead it's some being somewhere else. But forgiveness of the individual won't undo the horrors they may have committed. It won't compensate those who suffered through horrendous acts. It doesn't return stolen wealth, nor empty the pockets of the thieves.

I admit, I hold on to a different point of view that means there are certainly acts you can do that remove you from consideration of any kind of humanity.

If they genuinely convert I'm glad for them. There's a ministry for criminals, murderers in prison. Great. But I don't think everyone can just say oops sorry and it's fine. Hitler, some say God is unjust, because he could have said sorry on his death bed and went to heaven. That's impossible.

 

[VaughanJB]

If they genuinely convert I'm glad for them. There's a ministry for criminals, murderers in prison. Great. But I don't think everyone can just say oops sorry and it's fine. Hitler, some say God is unjust, because he could have said sorry on his death bed and went to heaven. That's impossible.

As I stressed, conversion has to be sincere. However, I can't accept that. To use the ridiculous example of Hitler: Hitler may have been awfully sorry for what he'd helped bring about, he might have closed his eyes for the last time fully believing in God, giving over his heart and soul. But what, exactly, would it have meant? Would millions have not died in horrible ways? Would Europe not be turn asunder? Would people not be turning against other people?

I can't think of a scenario, no matter how devout he'd become, that would allow for forgiveness on that scale.

 

[gruntlabor]

Religion is too often used as a weapon, whether it be to demean an idea, or an entire people. It is too often used as an excuse to hate on others. It is used as justification for all kinds of heinous acts. And yes, that extends to the Bible. The Old Testament is a litany of horrendous actions in the name of a God (but tends to get brushed under the carpet because hey, there was a do-over with a new covenant.) ...

.. and so it is wherever Power rears its head and swings its deadly arms. I know where that power is today and it is not in religion. Sir.

 

[JustDave]

There are an awful lot of people who don't display christian values whilst claiming a relationship with God.

Yes, an awful lot.

 

[gruntlabor]

There are an awful lot of people who don't display christian values whilst claiming a relationship with God.

There are an awful lot of people who don't display human values whilst claiming a relationship with humanity.

 

[Vida May]

Until it isn't - do not despair my friend, the final chapter hasn't been written yet.

Jose' Arguelles wrote, The Mayan Factor and of the transformation we are going through at this time and Carl Jung also wrote of the transformation. Both agree about the economic collapse. It would be great if others know of these men and we could discuss them and their very different points of view that come to the same conclusion of economic collapse.

 

[Vida May]

Vida is angry, upset and at wits end. I wish there was one sentence. one word that could reach her. She is one of us so think carefully about how you respond.
God is in charge. Nothing that takes place is beyond His understanding. you may not understand and I can assure you that I do not understand either. But I rest in the fact that He does.
It's not politics or religion. It is simply a matter of dealing with the concerns of your life with him or without him. That's it!
For others that find this thread boring or ridiculous.....leave. No one is keeping you here. If you are interested, as I am because of the responses and comments, then stick around. I don't have the answers. I don't. know what the facts are. I do know that I struggle with the same questions as expressed here. I do know that I believe in Gods existence in my life. I do know that I can not understand him and what he doe and what he allows to happen. Yet I trust that he does. .
Faith? I suppose, but it gives me comfort.
In all my years I find that God has watched over me.

I am shocked that someone in this forum would be so offensive. I stopped reading at the first sentence. You might want to keep in mind, what you see in others is a reflection of yourself.

 

[gruntlabor]

Jose' Arguelles wrote, The Mayan Factor and of the transformation we are going through at this time and Carl Jung also wrote of the transformation. Both agree about the economic collapse. It would be great if others know of these men and we could discuss them and their very different points of view that come to the same conclusion of economic collapse.

All economies will collapse, there is no stability, nothing on earth is forever including the ground you stand upon.
But there are often men with something to say.

 

[Vida May]

Thanks fellows. I wasn't sure if I lacked self awareness. I thought I felt bad about saying things to a Christian that might cause a Christian to doubt his/her beliefs. I have mixed feelings about that. It would be a huge lose for them if they began to doubt what they believe but being ignorant of others and believing one's self to be better then "them", follows a negitive path that could be harmful.

On the other hand if they saw Hindus, Buddhist and others also have 10 commandments, and do even more to be moral and spiritually uplifted, than they might give up their false beliefs about those others and walk a path that is healthier for everyone.

I enjoy the subject of morality so much, I started a thread for that.

 

[Messy]

Jose' Arguelles wrote, The Mayan Factor and of the transformation we are going through at this time and Carl Jung also wrote of the transformation. Both agree about the economic collapse. It would be great if others know of these men and we could discuss them and their very different points of view that come to the same conclusion of economic collapse.

The Bible says that too.

“A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius
Revelation 6:6

A denarius was a standard day’s wage, while a quart of wheat was only enough food for one person per day, meaning basic staples become extremely expensive, demanding a full day's work just to survive

 

[VaughanJB]

Jose' Arguelles wrote, The Mayan Factor and of the transformation we are going through at this time and Carl Jung also wrote of the transformation. Both agree about the economic collapse. It would be great if others know of these men and we could discuss them and their very different points of view that come to the same conclusion of economic collapse.

Not so sure about the Mayan factor, but Jung certainly articulated things I think are important to remember.

The US is a world leader today through it's power and influence, but it would be a mistake to forget that the world of people has been through similar periods of time, and they always came to an end. The US will lose influence and power (some are arguing that is starting in earnest right now) over time as we change, evolve, and priorities are rewritten.

I do think that it seems inherent in all of us to ask the big question: Why am I here? We can never really have a definitive answer. There are many ideas. What sometimes surprises me is that religious people (some of them, not all!) have a view that heaven is a special place where wars aren't fought, there is peace, love, caring... whilst writing off actual life as a chore to get through. For me, heaven can be here and now. It doesn't get any better than this - which is why we make the most of it.

 

[Messy]

Not so sure about the Mayan factor, but Jung certainly articulated things I think are important to remember.

The US is a world leader today through it's power and influence, but it would be a mistake to forget that the world of people has been through similar periods of time, and they always came to an end. The US will lose influence and power (some are arguing that is starting in earnest right now) over time as we change, evolve, and priorities are rewritten.

I do think that it seems inherent in all of us to ask the big question: Why am I here? We can never really have a definitive answer. There are many ideas. What sometimes surprises me is that religious people (some of them, not all!) have a view that heaven is a special place where wars aren't fought, there is peace, love, caring... whilst writing off actual life as a chore to get through. For me, heaven can be here and now. It doesn't get any better than this - which is why we make the most of it.

Heaven can't be here and now. For me sure, my small place were I live in a neat rich country that's not in war, is heavenly. But elsewhere people live in hell on earth.