I am an Atheist and always have been.

JustDave said:
I think many of the earliest "learned men" were scribes. They were smart enough to read and write, and that put them at the top shelf of "learned." The way I understand it is that their goal was to make written records of oral traditions, or to make copies of other written records. They were not expected to be keen observers or investigators, although some of them probably were, but that was not their job. Fiction or not fiction was not their job to differentiate.

I watched a fun episode on the Discovery Channel or something like it years ago that did a two hour piece on the 100 most influential persons in the last one thousand years. I waited almost breathlessly to see who they would finally name "most influential" at the end of the program. It surprised me because I never gave the guy one bit of thought over the previous two hours. It was Johannes Gutenberg. And when I thought about it, I was in full agreement. He made a way to dispense information to learned men all over the globe, not just some scribe in the next cell over. And collectively minds could come together to compare notes, debate, and try to make sense out of it all.
Click to expand...


agreed - scribes were just about the only people in early societies. like when the bible was written, who could read and write. this is why oral traditions develop into legends - there is no checking records of the original event - a big flood or whatever - so each telling gets bigger and bigger until someone records it many years later when it is entrenched i n the society as established "fact"
The scribes writing it down did not observe or participate in the original event
and agreed, they wouldn't be expected to differentiate between fiction and fact - of course when writing ability is so rare and most people cannot read and books are so precious - there do not exist books of fiction
Most ordinary people never saw a book, let alone read one.

I looked up Johannes Gutenburg - person who invented first printing press.
Prior to that books were hand written, usually by monks. It would be extremely labour intensive and long time to write a book. Of course they are not writing with ball point pen either and books would often be illuminated with detailed illustration - On average a mediavel scribe would create 2- 4 pages per day. so, years to do a complete bible.
Books were written on expensive parchment - after all the work to make one, it had to last. which some of them have to this day (eg the Domesday book)
Nobody just wrote a fictional book for the masses to read for pleasure- most of the masses couldn't read anyway and nobody would waste years producing a trashy romance.

I guess this is all a bit tangential to question of atheism but, to me anyway, very interesting aside.

thank you for your post about it,
 
Saint Bonaventura's (1221-1274) seven stages of ascent into God are
1. consideration of the wonders of the physical world
2. meditation on the physical sensations
3. contemplation of all these things
4. restoration of our goodness through Christ
5. transcendence into holy things
6. beholding these things, and we are bathed in light
7. the experience of ecstasy in stillness as we rest as one with God

I hope I am correct, Warrigal.
 
gruntlabor said:
Saint Bonaventura's (1221-1274) seven stages of ascent into God are
1. consideration of the wonders of the physical world
2. meditation on the physical sensations
3. contemplation of all these things
4. restoration of our goodness through Christ
5. transcendence into holy things
6. beholding these things, and we are bathed in light
7. the experience of ecstasy in stillness as we rest as one with God

I hope I am correct, Warrigal.
Click to expand...
@gruntlabor, I'm no scholar when it comes to these things, but personal experience would suggest that St Bonaventura's list is very close to the mark. He might have added the modern phrase "rinse and repeat" because renewal is needed for those of us who have a tendency to relapse. Sometimes it seems like two steps forward, one step back.
 
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter".
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator."
~ Adolf Hitler
 
RambleTamble said:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter".
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator."
~ Adolf Hitler
Click to expand...
Interesting quotation. Many world leaders have had the delusion that they are in power by the Divine Right of Kingship.
 
RambleTamble said:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter".
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator."
~ Adolf Hitler
Click to expand...
He said that? In the concentration camps the Bible was forbidden. They smuggled a tiny one in. The Nazi's called it das Lügenbuch, the book of lies.
He used Luther's writings.
 
OldOld said:
what if we were created by some higher being aliens, they could be our god.
Click to expand...
And maybe they want us to be happy and love each other. On the surface this sounds ridiculous, but it's every bit as likely or unlikely as the Bible God.

At any rate, you would think that all powerful gods would have more important things to concern themselves with. Hell the universe is filled with supernovas so powerful they destroy all life in other star systems light years away, not just some funky rain that floods the Mideast. And black holes! Who' going to decide where to put them? The Devil? Who cares? We got black holes. There's something just a little bit too random about the whole thing; Almost like no one is in charge and it's just physics doing its thing.
 
RambleTamble said:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter".
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator."
~ Adolf Hitler
Click to expand...
In defense of those words one could say:
Adam and Eve and their descendants are God's chosen. Everyone else is irrevelant.The world of people outside of God's chosen are as cattle to a meat eater.
 
Messy said:
He said that? In the concentration camps the Bible was forbidden. They smuggled a tiny one in. The Nazi's called it das Lügenbuch, the book of lies.
He used Luther's writings.
Click to expand...
I asked Gemini:
Did Adolf Hitler say the following? "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter". "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator.".

Gemini said;
Yes, Adolf Hitler made this statement during a speech in Munich on April 12, 1922. It is an accurate reflection of the "Positive Christianity" rhetoric he used early in his career to garner support from Christians by framing Jesus as a fighter against Jews. --Gemini
 
gruntlabor said:
I asked Gemini:
Did Adolf Hitler say the following? "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter". "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator.".

Gemini said;
Yes, Adolf Hitler made this statement during a speech in Munich on April 12, 1922. It is an accurate reflection of the "Positive Christianity" rhetoric he used early in his career to garner support from Christians by framing Jesus as a fighter against Jews. --Gemini
Click to expand...
Who have I heard that from (paraphrasing of course) lately?
 
Rakaia said:
Ah the irony of a thread from an atheist has become a great theist thread and it's 3/4 of the way to 1,000 posts...
Click to expand...
Whenever two or more atheists are gathered together, they come:

Onward Christian soldiers,
Fighting as to War,
With Cross of Jesus,
Going on before.

But we always welcome the refresher courses, just in case we forgot something.
 
gruntlabor said:
I asked Gemini:
Did Adolf Hitler say the following? "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter... who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter". "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator.".

Gemini said;
Yes, Adolf Hitler made this statement during a speech in Munich on April 12, 1922. It is an accurate reflection of the "Positive Christianity" rhetoric he used early in his career to garner support from Christians by framing Jesus as a fighter against Jews. --Gemini
Click to expand...
Wow.
Corrie ten Boom's brother went to Germany in the 1920s.

From Google AI (you can find anything now, I once read this in a book):

Willem ten Boom (1886-1946), the brother of Corrie ten Boom, warned early on about the evil taking root in Germany, specifically from the academic world.

The Dissertation (1927): Willem ten Boom, who studied theology and obtained a doctorate in Leipzig, wrote as early as 1927 that a terrible evil was taking root in Germany.

Warning against Universities: In his writing, he stated that it was precisely at the universities that the seeds were being planted of a contempt for human life such as the world had never seen.

Recognizing Nazism: Willem, who was also a pastor and missionary to the Jews, saw the antisemitic and Nazi ideology emerging early on in the 1920s through his contacts in Germany, long before Hitler came to power.

Reaction: According to family stories, his warnings were laughed off at the time by the few who read his dissertation. Willem was an outspoken opponent of the rising Nazism and, during the war, worked actively in the Dutch resistance together with his son Kik to help Jews.
 
JustDave said:
Whenever two or more atheists are gathered together, they come:

Onward Christian soldiers,
Fighting as to War,
With Cross of Jesus,
Going on before.

But we always welcome the refresher courses, just in case we forgot something.
Click to expand...
Apologies JustDave and Rakaia to you both and Bretrick for wandering off this interesting topic. Unfortunately, I'm sure to forget again so I'll get lost.
 
gruntlabor said:
Apologies JustDave and Rakaia to you both and Bretrick for wandering off this interesting topic. Unfortunately, I'm sure to forget again so I'll get lost.
Click to expand...
Topics wander in forum threads. Interesting topics wander more. I think it's an Internet rule. And what would atheists do without a constant reminder that we are all doomed. What would we have to talk about?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top