Islam is incompatible with Western Culture and Laws

WhatInThe said:
I understand staying with in their own community, in sometimes that's a measure of success of that ethnic/religious group. I've seen entire high end neighborhoods resided by successful richer ethnic/religious groups. I've also seen smaller neighborhoods eliminate a local drug & blight problem with Islamic leadership.

But my whole in this day and age regardless of motivation people chose to physically migrate. They choose to go to a different country and culture. It's not unusual to see an unwieldy sense of entitlement from various groups. But they're the ones coming into another's world. Does one let a house guest rearrange the furniture? Who has the primary responsibility for the assimilation process.
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Maybe because I live out in the country right now (and it is about as ethnic as porridge :)) and am out of the loop with what's going on in cities and towns so I don't truly know, but it seems to work in Canada. Always with exceptions of course, but generally speaking.

Is it a case of the immigrants responding to a label (multi-cultural vs. melting pot), I don't know. Maybe some folks are afraid they will lose their personal identity in that 'melting pot' and then many of the 'originals' resenting the reluctance of the newly immigrated. And here I think we kind of just 'move over' and bump up against one another occasionally. Maybe Shalimar would have some insights on if this is the way it is from her perspective as she's been involved with way more people than I have in the public domain.

That would be an interesting study wouldn't it? Finding out how different the attitudes are and all the ramifications thereof, of both sides of the immigrant experience, in the USA and Canada.
 

I don't know why it upsets some folks that people newly immigrated would want to be with their own group. Never could understand the problem. It takes at least 2 generations for a group to assimilate... that includes language, culture, dress.. etc. Full assimilation does not occur until the group becomes indistinguishable from the whole. As you can see, because of religious customs and dress.. that may not be completely possible for devout Muslims.

I can tell you that the Muslims I know are assimilated... They are doctors.. there is not one of the women that wears a head scarf.. and they dress western and speak English (with an accent) and live in neighborhoods I can't afford to live in. Their children will be fully assimilated as they will not even have the Middle Eastern accent.
 
Debby, allowing for some older individuals whom I suspect would find it difficult adapting to anything new, my experience living in a town with diverse ethnic groups has been very positive. Most are genuinely interested in being accepted as newCanadians.

Often, they are extremely touched at our willingness to learn about their culture. I think they are relieved that we don't expect them to completely abandon their culture for ours. Usually the only entitlement issues I see are exhibited by a few older men

who brought their old fashioned views on women with them, and seem surprised when we object to chauvinist attitudes. What continues to touch me deeply, is the kindness and loyalty shown by these immigrants toward those Canadians who help

them in any way. More than once, they have thrown open their homes and their hearts to us, teaching us their cooking, how to paint our hands with henna, even how to give a proper Turkish massage like the ones given in a hannam. One of them is

teaching a course to local master weavers on how to weave a prayer rug. I see first hand the joys of sharing without the pressure of melting pot assimilation. It is awesome to sit down for a Salish smoked salmon meal, prepared by me for a group


people, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, and pagan, all laughing together, the children playing in the host'sbackyard. I usually play caterer, since my condo is not geared towards kids. So cool to see little Moroccan Jewish boy Chaim letting his Muslim friend try on his yarmulke, and Sikh teen Manjit sew a beautiful embroidered suit as a Xmas gift for her Coptic Christian friend.

Next week we are all going to a Bahai household for an intercultural poetry reading. This Bahai family is originally from Scotland. They will be offering some traditional Scottish delicacies.
 

By the way QS, a few days ago, one young man showed me a pic of his favourite Turkish movie star. She looks like a pic you shared with us a while back--green eyes and all! The resemblance is spooky.
 
Not about Muslims but about assimilation...when I lived in South Africa, I didn't assimilate as such........it was obvious the Afrikaans were still fighting the Boer War with the English so we didn't feel welcomed by them and so it was easier to stick with either other English immigrants or English speaking South Africans.

When my son and his friends came home on the train from school and the boys from the Afrikaans speaking school got onto the same train they would put the English speaking boys through hell.

At a pigeon club social do I was at one night, my drink was spiked by a club member who's father was in the SS and had escaped to South Africa after that I was very careful who I got into conversation with.

From my own experience I can understand the Muslims not always wanting to assimilate and would rather stick with their own.
 
Sounds like a great place and a great life you're experiencing Shalimar! I went to a mall in Calgary back in September when shopping for my daughters 'interview' clothes and it was like a culture shock because there were people from so many different places in the world! I was kind of amazed (what a hick huh?). Here in rural Nova Scotia it's pretty 'white'.
 
WhatInThe said:
I didn't say they wouldn't 'eventually' fit in but right now they don't seem to aspiring or making the effort to assimilate as previous groups of immigrants. With a history of immigration and/or information out there on the US or any country's history & culture is should not take any immigrant group the same amount of time to assimilate as they did 100-200 years ago. They know a lot more going into the country.
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From my observation it usually takes two generations for complete absorption into the mainstream although individuals may blend in more quickly than that.
 
I can perfectly understand why Muslims would create their own communities. It's not because they all want to sit around crowing jihad and making bomb vests together. It's just based on common faith, customs and language. New York has always historically had Little Italy, Chinatown...pockets of immigrants that lived together because they understood each other. Some assimilated and some didn't...and yes some criminal elements came out as well. But the problem comes when prejudice creates labeling a whole group.
 
Debby, this is a smallish town, nestled between two cities. We have our hick areas also. In one we even had a white supremicist group thingy--long gone I suspect. Inbreeding no doubt. We have everything here from wineries to pulp mills

within a few miles of each other. Gourmet chef school also. Many white and indigenous people live here, we house the largest Aboriginal tribe in BC, south east Asians as well. More varieties of non white immigrants are arriving. It is exciting. It still

upsets some of the white elderly women with the tight permanents--and equally tight faces, when I wander about in my Sikh outfits--don't really know or care why! So utopia is not at hand. Lol.
 
Our church has a small aged care facility attached and recently there has been quite a turnover as several of the residents have entered full nursing homes or moved away to be closer to family. We had a Christmas party for them last Saturday and there were five new residents. A warm up exercise began by asking everyone to say where we went to primary school and of the five newbies one came from the Bahamas, one from Burma, two from Australia and one from Scotland. Another established resident is from Asia, Singapore I think. Yesterday another Christmas party for the knitting group and I sat next to a lady from southern India. She is Hindu and helps out with the children's playgroup.

The point was made earlier about making people feel welcome. This is extremely important, especially to the younger ones. I talk to a number of younger Muslim women on Facebook and they really appreciate any encouragement.
 
It depends on the individual as well. My relatives for the most part still live in small town Pennsylvania. Some of them settled elsewhere and might have grown more tolerant of diversity. But the ones who have spent their whole lives in an area where there is virtually no contact with other ethnic groups. I lived there for a few years. Everyone, no exaggeration was solidly white and Christian. Might that suggest not assimilating as well?
 
Warri, I'm certain you are right. Inclusive--builds bonds which pass on to further generations. People who feel they belong are far less likely to suffer from isolation and resentment and all that that can entail. Oh, the power of kindness and respect.
 
In the late 1800s we had a whole village from northern Italy arrive in NSW needing a new home. The back story is interesting but for the sake of brevity I'll leave it out for now. The Premier of the day allowed them entry on the condition that they did not all settle in the same place. They ignored this condition and all settled in rural NSW where they founded a town called New Italy, spoke Italian and followed the lifestyle of their old village.

One generation later the children had all scattered and had taken up jobs all over Australia. Fifty years after the immigrants arrived, New Italy was completely abandoned and there was a reunion of the descendants who wanted to learn more about the history of their grandparents. No-one spoke Italian any more. Integration was complete.
It happens naturally if people are not harassed about being different.

Here is a link to the back story http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2010/04/08/2867563.htm
 
If I were plopped down in the middle of a foreign country and didn't speak the language or understand the customs.. I'd certainly want to be in a group of Americans.
 
Fur, excellent point. Such lifestyles often lend themselves to a time warp view of life. Difficult to flow with the twenty first century.

Exactly, the town were in was up to oh 1933 in culture.
 
Fur, nineteen thirty three? I am kind of impressed in a boggled sort of way. I have been to some very isolated places in Canuckistan--but so far nothing like you mention. I am struggling to imagine it. Not Mayberry North I take it?
 
Shalimar said:
Canada celebrates multiculturalism as opposed to total assimilation. For starters, one third of our population (approx) identify as Francophones. Not all live in Quebec. Our Inuit, Dene, other indigenous First Peoples also celebrate their cultures. So do Hutterites, Mennonites etc.

Immigrants from around the world do also. We believe our diversity is our strength. Students of all ethnicities are now able to learn aboriginal language at school. In a climate of tolerance and respect, diversity flourishes. When after the Paris massacre,

Toronto Muslim women were attacked, Torontonians took to social media offering to sit beside their "Muslim sisters" on public transit. The bigotry and hatred of the few must never be permitted to to silence the justice and compassion of the many. Je suis Muslim! Je suis Juif---je suis Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, et al.
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What a great idea those Torontonians had! :applause2:
 
Thanks Underock, we may be perceived by some as a slightly bland people, perhaps a little complacent at times about our beloved country, but sometimes we truly stand up for what we believe is right. I am so proud of those Torontonians who put

themselves out there--sends a powerful message. I still choke up whenever I think about it. This is the Canada I believe in. That said, we are still under construction in many areas, and cannot afford to be too self congratulatory.
 
We had the same response after the Martin Place siege. A Twitter campaign, #I'llridewithyou, allowed Muslim women to link up with friendly people on public transport. It was if nothing else, an expression of solidarity.
 
That is lovely to hear Warri, sometimes adversity brings out the best in people. On a light note, I get to see how I look in a hijab later today. I have so much hair, the lady who offered to show me how it is done, teased me it would be like working on

one of her family. I even get to choose which hijab I like. If she wishes I will wear it as a gesture of solidarity when we visit members of her family.
 
When we visited Toronto I thought it looked a bit like Sydney in that the architecture is of a similar vintage. I see we have other similarities as well.
 

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