Migrants Storm Greece-Macedonia Border

This is devastating,the Greek people are helping as much as they can,the other countries are closing borders and are upset with Greece for helping them get to the border by bus saying that Greece does not have a say in allowing them to enter other couuntries.it just rained and the refuugees are living in tents and overall terrible condiitions.there was a big conflict between the refugees which became into a physical altercation.

Watching the Greek news every day is sad and I know that Greece may not have the means to help all these people out but are doing their best.its dispicable to allow human being to live like that and not try to find a solution.

I can understand it might be overwhelming but something has to be done.
 
Karen99 said:
It's a shame so many Arab states take none. Amazing.
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Yes, amazing and rather galling Karen.

'The refugees want to go where they want.'

And living in the UK, for me the problem is that far too many of them want to come here, on top of the millions of immigrants, mostly illegal, that have already arrived.
This at a time when the UK is already full, and cannot properly provide proper schooling, housing health care etc etc. etc. for the indigenous population here and now.
This in itself caused by the mass immigration we have already suffered.
I want out of the EU because of this.
And by the way, as an outsider looking in, I reckon that you're Donald Trump has the right idea on this subject.
Enough said! :cool:
 
boozercruiser said:
Yes, amazing and rather galling Karen.

'The refugees want to go where they want.'

And living in the UK, for me the problem is that far too many of them want to come here, on top of the millions of immigrants, mostly illegal, that have already arrived.
This at a time when the UK is already full, and cannot properly provide proper schooling, housing health care etc etc. etc. for the indigenous population here and now.
This in itself caused by the mass immigration we have already suffered.
I want out of the EU because of this.
And by the way, as an outsider looking in, I reckon that you're Donald Trump has the right idea on this subject.
Enough said! :cool:
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The thread is about migrantss storming Greece.
Not Donald and his racist remarks.
People are suffering in aweful conditions.agree or not agree,they are there and something has to be done.

Maybe we should stick them in a boat and send them back. 'Rolling eyes'
 
vickyNightowl said:
The thread is about migrantss storming Greece.
Not Donald and his racist remarks.
People are suffering in aweful conditions.agree or not agree,they are there and something has to be done.

Maybe we should stick them in a boat and send them back. 'Rolling eyes'
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'The refugees want to go where they want.'

As far as I can see this thread is about immigration, and where the millions will likely end up?
That is what the the people who are storming borders are, aren't they.
Immigrants?

With respect Vicky, I wonder how you would feel if they all wanted to get to America, and were succeeding, instead of europe and the uk?
 
Karen99 said:
It's a shame so many Arab states take none. Amazing.
Click to expand...

Just as amazing is with the energy these migrants seem to have including traveling hundreds & hundreds of miles by land & sea then rushing/charging border barriers how come all this effort wasn't put into revolution, uprising, political movement/recruitment, weapons procurement, foreign nation support etc to change conditions in their own country/region of the world. If nothing else they seemed to have passed navigation training.

And yes the Arab or neighboring states in that region have shown to be useless if not ignorant at this point.
 
WhatInThe said:
Just as amazing is with the energy these migrants seem to have including traveling hundreds & hundreds of miles by land & sea then rushing/charging border barriers how come all this effort wasn't put into revolution, uprising, political movement/recruitment, weapons procurement, foreign nation support etc to change conditions in their own country/region of the world. If nothing else they seemed to have passed navigation training.

And yes the Arab or neighboring states in that region have shown to be useless if not ignorant at this point.
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I can only second everything that you say there WhatI.T.

Thank you for putting me right in respect of Vicky there Shalimar, but the UK has a very good record on accepting Syrian refugees as well.
David Cameron has given a commitment to accept 20,000, and that is on top of millions who one way and another have entered our country.
Illegal or not.
 
Karen99 said:
It's a shame so many Arab states take none. Amazing.
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There are reasons for this, Karen. One is that they are a different religious sect. Another has to do with ancient history; i.e. *those people* invaded the city of *your people* two or three thousand years ago, so they get no help from you. There are other reasons, equally ridiculous.

As for staying home to fight...with what? They aren't chucking rocks over there. Those who have weapons don't share them. And fight against whom? Many of the invaders are mercenary outsiders, and it's impossible to know whose side they're on until they shoot your uncle or blow up your shop. Even then, you're not sure. And how do you fight and take care of your family once your house and your business is a pile of rubble? A lot of the refugees are leaving villages and cities that just aren't there anymore. Plus, very few of them want to pick a side. Pick the wrong one, and your whole family is dead when it's over.
 
FazeFour said:
There are reasons for this, Karen. One is that they are a different religious sect. Another has to do with ancient history; i.e. *those people* invaded the city of *your people* two or three thousand years ago, so they get no help from you. There are other reasons, equally ridiculous.

As for staying home to fight...with what? They aren't chucking rocks over there. Those who have weapons don't share them. And fight against whom? Many of the invaders are mercenary outsiders, and it's impossible to know whose side they're on until they shoot your uncle or blow up your shop. Even then, you're not sure. And how do you fight and take care of your family once your house and your business is a pile of rubble? A lot of the refugees are leaving villages and cities that just aren't there anymore. Plus, very few of them want to pick a side. Pick the wrong one, and your whole family is dead when it's over.
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Well, I read a few opinions..this was interesting. I'm certainly aware of the deep historical divisions in the ME..and obviously there can be no compromise with certain factions. I must say I'd rather drown in the sea..as a woman..than live in Egypt where women are basically reviled as inferior in every way. I know people remark they are used to it and raised that way..but it just leaves me cold.

http://time.com/4025187/arab-states-syrian-refugees/
 
Karen99 said:
Well, I read a few opinions..this was interesting. I'm certainly aware of the deep historical divisions in the ME..and obviously there can be no compromise with certain factions. I must say I'd rather drown in the sea..as a woman..than live in Egypt where women are basically reviled as inferior in every way. I know people remark they are used to it and raised that way..but it just leaves me cold.

http://time.com/4025187/arab-states-syrian-refugees/
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I read it. Bottom line is, it's complicated. And for many reasons, some of them impossible to fully understand. Jordan considers itself somewhat neutral. It's a place that people from other ME countries go to relax, take a vacation, or a shopping weekend. But it isn't adverse to taking a hard line if necessary.
 
It is often helpful when discussing other cultures, to gain some insight by studying their history, along with their present circumstances. Hopefully, this promotes knowledge, which can lead to understanding.
 
They never talk about the cause of these refugees the UN and all their buddies have went into all these countries destroying the country and government and it was done mostly on lies. If they wanted to fix the problem which they don’t . All is needed is to arm this million+ people and send them back to fight for their country and support them when they are done and fix all the infrastructure that the UN destroyed and if they done that maybe the UN would keep their noises out of other countries.
 
Jordan is already full of refugees from past wars. Lots of Palestinians and Iraqi's. Their economy is really bad and there is no work for those already living there. Invading Iraq destabilized the entire middle east with a domino effect. The dominoes have not stopped falling yet. It is the Gulf states that have the ability to help the refugees , but it is the Gulf states that won't help. They import workers , nannies, cooks, housekeepers, and professionals from China, the Philippines, Europe, America..but they give very few visas to other ARABS. That's because they are protecting their thrones. They import laborers from all over the world except very few from poorer neighboring Arab countries. It's kind of like what they say..when you are broke another poor person will help you faster than a rich man. Those in control of the governments in the Gulf states have been filthy rich all their lives & have never had to work by necessity. What do the filthy rich like that fear??...Losing their wealth, their social positions, their thrones.

You know how so many jobs are outsourced by American corporations the Philippines and other places? Well the gulf states bring people from those places in to do the laboring and other work. They use contracted workers from other countries. Very few of those are poorer Arabs.

What they fear the most by being outnumbered by poorer Arabs is an overthrow of their government by the disgruntled poor calling for an Islamic government. Although most in the west view Saudi Arabia & the other Gulf States as Islamic States..they aren't really Islamic States. Their are NO KINGS in truly Islamic government. A leader gets VOTED in. So what every king in the middle east fears worst is an Islamic movement that would unseat his throne. They fear their countries will become theocracy's . When many religious people are fearful and displaced they tend to get more fanatical in their belief systems.

I can kind of understand that. I REALLY do not want to live in any sort of a theocracy either.
 
Shalimar said:
It is often helpful when discussing other cultures, to gain some insight by studying their history, along with their present circumstances. Hopefully, this promotes knowledge, which can lead to understanding.
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I agree, Shalimar. It is always helpful. We should also try to understand the reservations and motivations of countries that are willing or unwilling to accept refugees in great numbers. My hope is that able countries discuss and devise effective ways to address problems of this nature in the future. This should be a global effort.
 
boozercruiser said:
'The refugees want to go where they want.'

As far as I can see this thread is about immigration, and where the millions will likely end up?
That is what the the people who are storming borders are, aren't they.
Immigrants?

With respect Vicky, I wonder how you would feel if they all wanted to get to America, and were succeeding, instead of europe and the uk?
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Boozecruiser,I am a Greek Canadian.just to clear that up.
Always with respect until the respect is not resiprocated.
Nowhere in my post did I say the refuugees were right,I also stated that its an overwhelming thing that's going on.

I never said anything bad about another country,the only thing I said was this is the situation,they are there,something should be done.Greeks are just trying to help as much as they can,considering their own problems.

I can also uderstand the anger of their audacity to ente another country 'because they want to do. What they want.

What would you do?

-vicky :)

And just to add,Canada accepted 25,000 refugees,and althougj the Country may not be at its best economically,and maybe I don't agree with that,we will find a way to work with the decission our PM made.that's what it iss to be a Canadian.
 
vickyNightowl said:
Boozecruiser,I am a Greek Canadian.just to clear that up.
Always with respect until the respect is not resiprocated.
Nowhere in my post did I say the refuugees were right,I also stated that its an overwhelming thing that's going on.

I never said anything bad about another country,the only thing I said was this is the situation,they are there,something should be done.Greeks are just trying to help as much as they can,considering their own problems.

I can also uderstand the anger of their audacity to ente another country 'because they want to do. What they want.

What would you do?

-vicky :)

And just to add,Canada accepted 25,000 refugees,and althougj the Country may not be at its best economically,and maybe I don't agree with that,we will find a way to work with the decission our PM made.that's what it iss to be a Canadian.
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Thank you for your post Vicky, and as to your question...

What would you do?

I would need to sit her all evening in order to give you a rational and well thought out response to that question Vicky, and even then, someone somewhere would want to pulverise me. Nobody can win with the answers to it either, and I don't envy Greece trying to sort 'orrible mess this out.
She has enough problems already, with or without EU membership.
One thing I am sure of is...
The UK is full, and we have been doing our bit sending £13 BILLION a year in foreign aid to try and help, but I fear most of that money is being wasted by corrupt governments. Now then.
Where are me migraine tablets?!
snickering.gif
 
boozercruiser said:
Thank you for your post Vicky, and as to your question...

What would you do?

I would need to sit her all evening in order to give you a rational and well thought out response to that question Vicky, and even then, someone somewhere would want to pulverise me. Nobody can win with the answers to it either, and I don't envy Greece trying to sort 'orrible mess this out.
She has enough problems already, with or without EU membership.
One thing I am sure of is...
The UK is full, and we have been doing our bit sending £13 BILLION a year in foreign aid to try and help, but I fear most of that money is being wasted by corrupt governments. Now then.
Where are me migraine tablets?!
snickering.gif
Click to expand...

In your medicine cabinet,lol

Yesterday about 300 were taken to the border,there are so many left.Greece will have to accommidate them somehow and here is where the fun starts.
 
Shalimar said:
It is often helpful when discussing other cultures, to gain some insight by studying their history, along with their present circumstances. Hopefully, this promotes knowledge, which can lead to understanding.
Click to expand...

It is but it is also a two way street. The immigrants or citizens of another country need to study the history of their preferred destination. If they studied the history of Europe in particular they should know that the Europeans fought two wars in a quarter century to maintain and/or set the stage for the freedoms they have today. These immigrants seem to have a destination in mind so how did they find out about it? Meaning time for research as well.
 
Ok, here goes by one of the uninformed.

If I was of the ruling class, and my country was over populated with people that wanted me to share my bounty, and I realized I couldn't fix the centuries of issues without loosing this bounty, what would I do. Well before communications became world wide, I would just make these wanted people disappear. Wink wink.

But in today's world, this can't be done and still hold onto my royal status. So what can I do? Well the wars didn't fix anything so let's let the people move out. Now how do I accomplish this? Let's tell our people they are the chosen, and the troubles our contries have are caused by the Europians and all the Western cultures. Let's tell our people they have the right to displace those bad cultures because our people are the chosen ones to make laws and rule.

That leaves the elite and rich to rebuild their countries as they will, and it never hurts to divert the hatred onto those who might wish to interfere with ones plans.

All of our countries have had to fight for independence, and make changes to our rulers, but in today world the old ways just aren't going to work. It will take the rest of the world to put a stop to this.

I haven't any notion on how, but we have to find a way to re-educate the refugees as to how to become a part of their chosen countries, without them being the chosen ones.

Now of course "I" never had and don't want any say in this problem because I am one of the uninformed, but I think my idea is as rational as any.
 
You're analogy is a pretty good one, Ina (if I understand it correctly). The problem is in the "re-education of refugees as to how to become a part of their chosen countries". But maybe rather than 're-educate' you meant educate.

The USA used to send immigrants applying for citizenship to citizenship classes, where they learned a bit about US history, learned how the three branches of gov't work, how elections work, and even how to use public transportation and emergency systems. A driver's course was optional. Applicants would be 'vetted' in the meantime, and could be granted citizenship within a year or two. I wish they still did it that way.
 
FazeFour said:
You're analogy is a pretty good one, Ina (if I understand it correctly). The problem is in the "re-education of refugees as to how to become a part of their chosen countries". But maybe rather than 're-educate' you meant educate.

The USA used to send immigrants applying for citizenship to citizenship classes, where they learned a bit about US history, learned how the three branches of gov't work, how elections work, and even how to use public transportation and emergency systems. A driver's course was optional. Applicants would be 'vetted' in the meantime, and could be granted citizenship within a year or two. I wish they still did it that way.
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Well millions of the immigrants we have in the UK can't even talk English.
And they have no intention of learning to either!
We have hundreds of different language translators here in the UK for those that get into criminal or other trouble.
In schools and hospitals and services they are well employed as well.
Guess who is paying for this little lot?
The likes of me, that's who!
Far too many immigrants just want to keep to themselves, live in there own special ghettos, and so called multiculturalism has not worked.
Rant over!:cool:
 
boozercruiser said:
Well millions of the immigrants we have in the UK can't even talk English.
And they have no intention of learning to either!
We have hundreds of different language translators here in the UK for those that get into criminal or other trouble.
In schools and hospitals and services they are well employed as well.
Guess who is paying for this little lot?
The likes of me, that's who!
Far too many immigrants just want to keep to themselves, live in there own special ghettos, and so called multiculturalism has not worked.
Rant over!:cool:
Click to expand...

Yes! That's why I wish they'd bring back citizenship classes. The classes included basic language. In cases where the applicant just couldn't get the hang of it, he or she was required to present an interpreter to the INS examiners, an interpreter who could be available to the applicant on a regular basis/as needed.
 
Fazefour bringing back citizenship classes would be a good beginning. It worked for this country for many decades. But in today's, "Right Now" attitude, it would be butchered. Remember the time element, and I think as it stood it was fair.

I'm not heartless, but we do need to vet our immigrants very carefully, and with 'their' infrastructure in the mess it is, just how do we verify their claims. But I f we don't our country could look as war torn and in rubble as the ME does in a very short period of time. This is not just paranoia popping out. I too can see what is happening in the ME, and although I am an uninformed person, I still don't want to see my great-grandchild live in such a world.

I too think we should help those that are truly in need, such as family units. But I do question the wisdom of letting single men of military service age into our country. I remember the USA jailing our young men if they tried to leave this counrty while we were at war. We called them deserters and traitors, and we put them in jail. So why is it ok for this country to except from immigrants what we punished our own for?
 

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