A tale of two mothers

Warrigal

Warrigal

SF VIP
Location
Sydney, Australia
In the Australian news recently are two mothers under arrest.

One was arrested in Beirut in a botched attempt to snatch her children away from their paternal grandmother. The attempt was sponsored by an Australian TV crew (Sixty Minutes) and was being filmed complete with a female reporter/journalist, and camera and sound operators. The snatch involved bundling the children roughly into a car, leaving the grandmother knocked to the ground.

The Lebanese authorities soon had all five of them under arrest and they have been banged up in gaol ever since while the authorities decide the most appropriate charges to lay on them. It is likely that the mother will not be charged and the court had ordered that she and her husband come to some agreement about the children, but the news crew and the extractor are facing serious charges that may involve prison. Kidnapping has been ruled out because there was no demand for money.

Here is a run down on this case that is still current http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/04/14/what-we-know-about-60-minutes-case-beirut

The other case involves a mother of a toddler who claimed that her baby was snatched from her stroller while walking in the park. She said she was knocked down and the baby was carried off by a shoeless man from Africa who smelled of alcohol. A search began immediately but the little girl's body was found the next morning in a nearby creek.

Police used CCTV to look for the man but suspicion fell on the mother who was taken to the police station for questioning. She admitted smothering her baby. It appears that there is some history of family violence in the home where the mother and her baby were staying.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/...more-details-emerging-baby-sanaya-murder-case

Two very different stories but both very sad.
 

Some people shouldn't be mothers and some men shouldn't be fathers. Parenting isn't for everybody...
 
The first story,I'm trying to read up on it,how did the kids get where they are in the first place?

The second story just sickens me.
 

So,apparently the mother had consented to a three week holiday but he skyped her when they arrived in Lebanon telling her they are not going back.
What an A hole,
The poor mom was desparate.
Reminds me of 'Not without my Daughter"


One mom does a desparate thing to get her kids back and another is the total oposite.
 
Reminds me of 'Not without my Daughter"

Exactly, the first thing that came to mind. I've read other books on the same topic. It's bad enough how custody cases can fall apart in the US. But the mistake many women make is falling in love with someone from countries like Lebanon or the UAE. You might have a wonderful marriage and beautiful children. But if the relationship crumbles the woman has no rights at all. The father can flee with the kids and be protected by the laws of his country. The only choice left is to snatch them back and basically go into hiding.
 
In the first case the mother has been granted custody under Australian law. When the father got to Lebanon he was granted custody under Lebanese law. Sounds like it is a case for both countries to thrash out under International law. (Who trumps who)
as for the second case....hard for me to comprehend
 
More background to the Beirut case.

60 Minutes: Mother pleads with husband to drop Lebanon child abduction charges in exchange for custody

By Middle East correspondent Matt Brown


Related Story: Judge pressures couple to resolve Lebanon child custody dispute

Australian mother Sally Faulkner has asked estranged husband Ali el-Amien to drop Lebanese abduction charges against her in exchange for her renouncing all claims to custody and cooperating in getting a divorce.

Key points:

  • Faulkner to give up sole custody granted by Family Court in Australia if husband drops charges
  • Ruling allowed Australian police to get children back but Faulkner did not register it in Lebanon
  • Team paid by Faulkner, who used money given to her by 60 Minutes, her lawyer says


Ms Faulkner and four members of a Channel Nine 60 Minutes crew were among a group of people arrested after an attempt to take Ms Faulkner's two children off the streets of the capital, Beirut.

If Mr el-Amien agrees to drop the charges, Ms Faulkner will give up sole custody granted to her by the Family Court in Australia.

The Australian Family Court ruling, granted on December 15, even allowed Australian police or agents appointed by Ms Faulkner to get her children back — but she did not register it in Lebanon.

Ms Faulkner's Lebanese lawyer Ghassan Moghabghab said: "It's a very strong judgement and we are sorry that it's not being used. Especially when you read the articles of the judgement, it was obviously 100 per cent to her favour."

Mr el-Amien got his own custody ruling from a religious court in Lebanon, but it is not clear when it was issued.

The ABC has been told the Lebanese judge does not view the recovery as a kidnapping, but rather as a mother trying to reunite with her children.

Ms Faulkner hopes for the right to see her children whenever she wants in Lebanon, Australia or a third country.

If Mr el-Amien agrees to drop charges against Ms Faulkner, she would likely be released on bail and it could reduce the severity of charges against all involved.



Faulkner paid for recovery with 60 Minutes' money: lawyer

The child recovery team were paid directly by Ms Faulkner, who used money given to her by 60 Minutes, Mr Moghabghab said.
But Mr Moghabghab said "I don't have any idea" if 60 Minutes paid Ms Faulkner intending for it to go towards the operation, or just for her story.




Photo: Mr Moghabghab said Ms Faulkner told a judge she regrets paying for the attempt. (Supplied: Nine)

The payment can not be confirmed independently and the claims have not been tested in court. Mr Moghabghab said Ms Faulkner told a judge she regrets paying for the attempt.

Earlier, authorities said they had a signed statement from a member of the recovery team saying Nine paid $115,000 for the operation. However, that statement is uncorroborated, the ABC has not seen it and cannot confirm the claim.

Mr Moghabghab said Ms Faulkner was in the car when alleged operatives of Child Abduction Recovery International grabbed her son and daughter off a Beirut street and bundled them into the waiting car.

"Maybe she was showing the persons that were executing [the abduction] who are the children, maybe they don't know," he said.
"Maybe she was present that if the children were taken from the grandmother, they began crying, so the presence of the mother, it will be easier for them to take the children and give them to their mother."

The team made a clean getaway, but was caught not long after the fact. Soon after, the boy and girl were returned to the father and Ms Faulkner and the 60 Minutes crew were arrested.

Video: The attempted abduction took place on a Beirut street (ABC News)
Click to expand...

Something that is overlooked is that Tara Brown is also a mother and male members of the team have children too. There could be more than two children deprived of a parent as a result of this reckless endeavour. If the TV crew had not been involved Ms Faulkner might have had a better chance of claiming her children through the Lebanese courts.
 
JustQuinn said:
In the first case the mother has been granted custody under Australian law. When the father got to Lebanon he was granted custody under Lebanese law. Sounds like it is a case for both countries to thrash out under International law. (Who trumps who)
as for the second case....hard for me to comprehend
Click to expand...


Australian law,Lebanese law,the father took the kids to Lebanon by lying to the mother.

What kind of person does that? Takes away the kids from their mother.

I can't imagine how she felt and how desparate she was.
I don't trust him or what he says.he was wrong what he did.


Warrigal,I agree that more kids are going to pay the consequenses.
I don't know though if herr chances are better through Lebanese court.
 
The Australian Family Court ruling, granted on December 15, even allowed Australian police or agents appointed by Ms Faulkner to get her children back — but she did not register it in Lebanon.

Ms Faulkner's Lebanese lawyer Ghassan Moghabghab said: "It's a very strong judgement and we are sorry that it's not being used. Especially when you read the articles of the judgement, it was obviously 100 per cent to her favour."
Click to expand...

Because of cases like this in the past Australia and Lebanon have some sort of agreement recognising each others custody judgements.
The mother has been badly advised by the TV people. No country is going to look kindly on a snatch of infants in an attempt to claim custody.
 
Warrigal said:
Because of cases like this in the past Australia and Lebanon have some sort of agreement recognising each others custody judgements.
The mother has been badly advised by the TV people. No country is going to look kindly on a snatch of infants in an attempt to claim custody.
Click to expand...

Warrigal,this went over my head,thanks for posting it again.

What a mess ,bad for the kids,and her.
 
so the wife was granted custody of these Australian born children.....and the husband lies to her (I want to take them on a holiday) to get them out of Australia......then the Australian Gov does nothing to retrieve these Australian citizens......and whe the wife tries to get her children back....she ends up in jail....and the husband is paid lots of money to drop charges against her.
So he ends up with his children and lots of money...and the Australian Government does nothing. I am very angry
 
There is nothing the government can do other than provide consular support for the Australian citizens who get into trouble with the law in foreign countries.

Looking realistically, the mother was much too trusting. Her husband was not an Australian citizen and she allowed the children to be entered onto his passport. Did she know nothing about Lebanese society and culture?

She should have obtained good legal advice here because her Australian custody judgement could have been registered in Lebanon where it would have been recognised, giving her a much better chance of recovering the children.

A forceful abduction of two young children from a public place left our government with very few options. What do you suggest? Trade sanctions? Expulsion of Lebanese diplomats? All they can do is make behind the scenes representations on behalf of the mother and the film crew. Lebanese law is not British law.

I am angry at 60 Minutes for placing ratings over the welfare of a fractured family. In the long run, our family court would be asking the question "What is the best thing for the children in this case?" I haven't actually heard this question at all in the context of this custody dispute.
 
do we not have an extradition treaty with lebanon? She was granted Legal custody in the country of their birth...are you saying that because she was naive in not registering her custody agreement in Lebanon her children should continue to be denied their legal right to return to their home? that makes them the victims!
I . of course am angy at 60 Minutes for using this situation in an attempt to grab ratings and as you know from the media that has backfired with little sympathy for the crew who were also jailed.
 
JustQuinn said:
do we not have an extradition treaty with lebanon? She was granted Legal custody in the country of their birth...are you saying that because she was naive in not registering her custody agreement in Lebanon her children should continue to be denied their legal right to return to their home? that makes them the victims!
I . of course am angy at 60 Minutes for using this situation in an attempt to grab ratings and as you know from the media that has backfired with little sympathy for the crew who were also jailed.
Click to expand...

Apparently we do have a treaty but this clause makes it rather useless.
Article III
Either Government may, in its absolute discretion, refuse to deliver up its own subjects to the other Government.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/other/dfat/treaties/1901/68.html

I think that Government should have stepped in BEFORE she was coerced into trying this crazy abduction attempt.
Click to expand...

Was she coerced or did she approach CH 9 to finance an abduction. We now know who paid for the snatch, but who commissioned it? Ch 9 or the mother?
Was any attempt made to contact the government asking for help? I doubt that there was because the Australian custody order was never registered with the Lebanese courts and I reckon that would have been the first advice that a government department would hand out.

Someone put the bit between the teeth and charged ahead recklessly and I very much doubt that anyone in the government was even aware of the abduction.
 
Warrigal I am not suggesting that our Gov was aware of the abduction...and we dont know as yet who approached whom. The children will grow up without their mother because of the fathers dishonesty...meanwhile he banks a big fat cheque.
Ralphy I am glad that Mrs Dumbfart still loves me....does that hold true for the rest of the gang??How is Lisa tracking these days? (does she get out much?)I miss you , you old curmudgeon...Baile sends Kisses and slurps as do I !!
 
Yes JustQuinn, it is a real mess.

I just hope that the kids are able to grow up with minimal emotional damage.
 

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