Do You Think Unions Are Responsible For Our Factories Moving Overseas?

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
I think labor Unions have driven up the salaries of un skilled factory workers to un realistic levels in comparison to the skilled labor force.
 

NO These right to work states have set the american worker back years. There are a number of people having to work two and three jobs to barely make it by. Their jobs aren't protected, the boss can fire you because he's had a bad morning and get away with it.
 
Lon said:
I think labor Unions have driven up the salaries of un skilled factory workers to un realistic levels in comparison to the skilled labor force.
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With some of these new minimum wage laws being set up we will soon be closing lots of our local businesses. Another problem is with our federal government that taxes businesses so much higher than overseas areas. It becomes good business to just go where you can make more return on the investments and be able to produce items that can be sold for less.

Unions can be a problem but many areas now allow non union businesses to operate.

The cost of simple foods are getting so expensive now that soon even the poorest will not be able to eat out. What was once a twenty five cent burger is now closing in on $6. The $9 pizza is now nearing $20.

I hope our next government will consider making it possible for businesses to operate without mandatory minimum wages higher than some skilled jobs can afford to pay. Retired folks have no defense against such irresponsible actions.
 

Because they are unskilled as you say doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to a decent place to live or enough to drive a car that isn't a junk. By the way what is skilled? I'm sure they have skills of a different kind. Not every one can do what alot of these people do.
 
It's not just a matter of 'skill'. One should and frequently has to pay for conditions one must work. Not everyone will work outside like a construction or utility worker without good pay. Not everyone will work inside in the same exact location for years either. Frequently the skill is dealing with conditions along with doing the job. That could be said of most jobs because most have their set of requirements or conditions, problems and issues to be endured.

And again it is not always fair to compare the US workers living with higher standards that must be maintained through higher wages that foreigner doesn't have to pay for. And many foreigners have their production and/or facilities subsidized by their governments.
 
These companies go over seas and pay slave labor wages, why haven't our prices come down if they are saving so much leaving this country?
 
Guitarist said:
Well, aren't unions supposed to be for the workers?
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Hahahahahahhahahahahaha - oh, Guitarist, you crack me up! :p

I watched my older brother - a member of a powerful union, paying his dues faithfully for years - get ignored by his union when he complained of dangerous working conditions. They didn't want to rock the boat.

When he couldn't work anymore because of his diabetes, they basically kicked him out - didn't help him get any benefits.
 
BobF said:
With some of these new minimum wage laws being set up we will soon be closing lots of our local businesses. Another problem is with our federal government that taxes businesses so much higher than overseas areas. It becomes good business to just go where you can make more return on the investments and be able to produce items that can be sold for less.

Unions can be a problem but many areas now allow non union businesses to operate.

The cost of simple foods are getting so expensive now that soon even the poorest will not be able to eat out. What was once a twenty five cent burger is now closing in on $6. The $9 pizza is now nearing $20.

I hope our next government will consider making it possible for businesses to operate without mandatory minimum wages higher than some skilled jobs can afford to pay. Retired folks have no defense against such irresponsible actions.
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Problem is they are not selling for less. The prices have risen not delined
 
I have a much larger concern for the ever expanding welfare roles and the endless amount of people who are on disability checks that that are not really disabled.
 
I'm pro-union, and don't hold them responsible for moving manufacturing to third world countries where labor is so dirt cheap and often extremely dangerous to workers that even without unions that is the way manufacturing would go.

I don't think you can generalize, all unions are not created equal, but most are pretty good, in my experience, especially the big ones.
 
ladyp said:
These companies go over seas and pay slave labor wages, why haven't our prices come down if they are saving so much leaving this country?
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They are shoving more profits into their pockets, certainly not passing along the 'savings' of paying slave wages.
 
Guitarist said:
Well, aren't unions supposed to be for the workers?
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Yes, Unions represent the interests and well being of the workers. The government will only do so much, and of course the corporations have no interest in workers needs.

Unions aren't perfect(is anything?) but they are all they've got...
 
Lon said:
I think labor Unions have driven up the salaries of un skilled factory workers to un realistic levels in comparison to the skilled labor force.
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I disagree that it's mostly the unions at fault. They do make a good scapegoat for the CEO's. :p Greedy corporations want bigger profits for their pockets and their shareholders. That is their primary aim. There is little left of satisfying consumers with well made, quality products that last longer than a year. Our landfills are overflowing with cheap junk. Really, is there a limit on how many kinds of plastic there are?
 
ladyp said:
Problem is they are not selling for less. The prices have risen not delined
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As long as persons demand higher wages and more benefits the business must raise prices to cover it all and still make some profit. Businesses do need to make profits in order to pay these way to high minimum wages and benefits.

There should be no guarantee of wages sufficient to by newer cars and eat in better restaurants in the minimum wage levels. That should be barely enough to get along with only. Time on the job and training should then get a person into better wage positions. It is that even in union jobs. I was working in several union jobs with shovel jockey as my first level. I was busy moving clay on command, sometimes could help the cement folks by pushing the wheel barrows full of cement to where they wanted it. In factories I was also union and would work in certain class designations where I was hired to work. And I also worked in non union assignments for less per hour, by choice, as I wanted more than be what I was doing. I got a job as a draftsman that was non union. That then was something in my job jar that eventually helped me to move up into higher wage positions. My biggest concern was the willingness to move to other states and follow the opportunities for different or more wages jobs. This current effort to offer such high minimum wages is really the beginnings of the end to our economy.

Minimum wages is not our problem in the US. It is more of mismanaged government ways with poor taxes which allow too many to be able to skip paying them. Not us little folks, but the ultra rich ones. Taxes should be more fair to all and not so high and driving businesses off to other countries. Wages should be competitive for the jobs, not just one big wage for all for any job.
 
tnthomas said:
They are shoving more profits into their pockets, certainly not passing along the 'savings' of paying slave wages.
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Exactly....there is nothing fair when you see companies with obscene profits treat
employees badly....No, unions are not responsible for factories moving.

I am tired of the fat cats getting all the breaks, where is the balance?

ladyp has a very good point!
 
ladyp said:
NO These right to work states have set the american worker back years. There are a number of people having to work two and three jobs to barely make it by. Their jobs aren't protected, the boss can fire you because he's had a bad morning and get away with it.
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I could not agree more.
 
Cookie said:
I'm pro-union, and don't hold them responsible for moving manufacturing to third world countries where labor is so dirt cheap and often extremely dangerous to workers that even without unions that is the way manufacturing would go.

I don't think you can generalize, all unions are not created equal, but most are pretty good, in my experience, especially the big ones.
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I'm pro-union. I draw a retirement check every month from the union I worked under for twelve years. I was a union steward for many of those years.
 
One of the issues with corporate greed is not just finding a lower wage worker but it is greed and/or desire to merge, buyout or sell off frequently in attempt to monopolize a market. Every time a company buys out another company after the consolidation process is complete that usually means fewer jobs & workers. After many mergers or buyouts instead 2 call centers, logistics chains, factories etc now there is one after operations & functions are combined. This not only eliminates jobs and employees but also dilutes/decreases the let go employee's salary since there is less need for their skill set and fewer places to sell it to.
 
Greed is not a recent discovery. The desire to produce more with less is not new. Rather than looking for "villains" it might be wiser to look at the realities of the "world market" and try to figure out how to deal with it.

There was a time that when we wanted a car, we looked to MI, when we wanted steel, we looked to PA, when we wanted corn, we looked to KS - cattle TX, jazz LA, investment NY, and so on. It's the same today except the states have been changed to nations.

It really isn't a case of "good" or a case of "bad" - it's just a case of "is".
 

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