Ban All Sharia Muslims From U.S. Entry-------Agree Or Disagree?

I read a lot of books. One of the series I have enjoyed is the "Private" series by James Patterson. I've read most of this series including... Private, Private Games, Private London, Private Berlin, Private L.A., Private Down Under, Private Vegas, and just this past couple of days Private Paris. "Private" is a global private detective firm that seems to get itself involved in dangerous crisis around the globe. As we have seen Brexit and all the media concern about immigration of those of the Muslim religion into Europe, Private Paris was a very timely read. I would recommend anyone who likes lots of action, mystery, and clandestine operations that deal with issues of today to pick up a copy from your local library.
 

The danger and destabilizing effects of organized religion. Science and human history tell us we are a single people, separated by ideology. Until we come of age, as a species, to accept and appreciate each other, along with our cultural , ethnic, racial and/ or our philosophical/ religious differences, the species may not have a chance for long term survival. The species has so much potential, yet so much ignorance.
 
I looked at the links supplied by you Guitarist and none of them suggested that Canada is on the cusp of being taken over by Sharia law. That one was written by xenophobic Canadian Christians (at least one link) doesn't mean it's here in the way that Copenhagen is experiencing. I think one thing to keep in mind is that we are more fortunate than Europe in that there's an ocean between us and the flood of fleeing refugees so that to a much greater degree, it's possible to vet the people who are coming here.

And bringing up the occasional case of a Muslim family's murder ignores the fact that there are probably as many (if not more) instances of family violence among the non-Muslim community in our country. It seems to me that continual talk about violent, dangerous Muslims is only going to cause such a feeling of being disconnected and marginalized that we could actually bring about the kind of alienation and hostility that is a breeding ground for violence among young, inexperienced Muslim youth.

I think being vigilant is a requirement in any society, but seeing things before they happen is asking for trouble.
 

Debby and Shalimar, I wasn't in any way suggesting we ban Muslim immigrants from entering. And yes I agree that vigilance is essential. However, while working in the public service Women's Directorate years ago, the issue of Sharia law and family violence was very much on the table and preventative measures were being sought in the way of legislation, which to this day, I don't know where it went.

I think we do need to foresee things before they happen, very much so, especially when it comes to the honor killings of young girls who decide not to follow the mandates of their religion and other forms of family violence right here in Canada. One high profile case does not mean that there are not others which have not been caught or others that will not take place in the future. We must be aware how it is a misogynistic culture/religion and what that means to all of us.
 
Here's my opinion. Muslims shouldn't be allowed here at all. My neighbor, from another country, had his 3 young children burned to death in their Christian school by Muslims. His wife had her throat cut when she rushed to the school. He said never ever trust a Muslim. You can live by them 30 years, even consider them a friend but it their Imam tells them to kill you , they will. Islam is like belonging to the Mafia. You don't DARE go against orders because they will kill you or your family. Also my stepfather was from Lebanon. The atrocities that Hezbollah (It doesn't matter what name they use) committed were unspeakable. They don't just shoot you. They find awful ways to torture, rape and kill you. Two good books to read if you want to know the truth "Because They Hate" by Brigette Gabriel and " Slavery, Terrorism and Islam" by Dr. Peter Hammond. When Muslims become about 10% of the population they start to demand their rights as a "minority" but once they are the majority, minorities ARE NOT ALLOWED.
 
There is no way to tell if they strictly adhere to Sharia Law or not so I don't approve of Muslims coming here at all.
 
I wrote a very long reply that apparently they want to read first about my limited experience with the Islamic religion. I hope they put it on here,
 
I'll try this again. My neighbor had his 3 young children burned to death in their Christian school by Muslims. He said never, ever trust them. You can live by them 30 years, consider them a friend but if their Imam tells them to kill you , they will. Even if they are not strict Sharia, they don't dare go against an order. It's like belonging to the Mafia. My stepfather was from Lebanon. The atrocities that Hezbollah committed there were unspeakable. Read "Because They Hate" by Brigette Gabriel and "Slavery, Terrorism and Islam" by Dr. Peter Hammond. When they become 10% of the population they will start to demand their rights as a minority but once they become the majority, minorities are NOT allowed.
 
Cookie said:
Debby and Shalimar, I wasn't in any way suggesting we ban Muslim immigrants from entering. And yes I agree that vigilance is essential. However, while working in the public service Women's Directorate years ago, the issue of Sharia law and family violence was very much on the table and preventative measures were being sought in the way of legislation, which to this day, I don't know where it went.

I think we do need to foresee things before they happen, very much so, especially when it comes to the honor killings of young girls who decide not to follow the mandates of their religion and other forms of family violence right here in Canada. One high profile case does not mean that there are not others which have not been caught or others that will not take place in the future. We must be aware how it is a misogynistic culture/religion and what that means to all of us.
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I agree that being prepared for any eventuality is paramount in all things, wherever there is a possibility of any kind of crime, but at the same time looking at every Muslim with suspicion as though that person or family has the potential to be a criminal.....that's equally wrong don't you think?

Remember that BC Indian woman, Jaswinder Sidhu, who was killed by her family for marrying someone of a different position, when she went to the Punjab? Her family is Sikh. And apparently the notion of honour killings in the Punjab is not uncommon. Murder is murder with a variety of victims and perpetrators and we have laws against it which would apply to any and all regardless of their religious beliefs. But don't you think that if we start setting apart this group or that group we run the risk of inflaming people against those groups generally and making them feel so marginalized that more of their young people begin to harbour deep resentments at their bad treatment? And we know what can happen when young people who are headstrong and idealistic and inexperienced in life, feel that way.

My feeling is, hold fast to our principals, apply our existing laws equally regardless of who the victim/perp is, and assume that folks are great until they do something that warrants activating those laws.
 
Debbie, no one is even remotely suggesting setting people apart because they are Muslims, how are you getting this from my posts. But let's not be naive, and lets try to remember what are the characteristics of differing religions, how they differ from our social customs and how they might impact us. The kids who join the extremist fundamentalist groups aren't in them because they feel excluded from our society, they have been seriously brainwashed and indoctrinated. Its a pretty powerful force. We didn't do it to them and we are not to blame for whatever dissatisfaction they may have. Other diverse cultural groups have immigrated to Canada, assimilated and participated in our society and there hasn't been any concern that they might turn into terrorists.
 
With respect, racism still exists in Canada, and young people can become disaffected easily enough. Some of of them have sat in my office. Such disaffection can leave one vulnerable to mind control. As for fear of terrorism, I recall the capture of a Sikh from my neck of the woods--he was heavily involved in the Air India bombing.
 
No one can disagree with you, Shalimar, of course racism exists here in Canada as well as all over the rest of the world. Fear of terrorism is very real, as evidenced by strict air travel regulations and border patrols. It affects us all. That's the world we live in. But there is definitely no need to be full fear and hatred for our neighbors who may be different from us. Just go about with eyes and ears open and keep smiling.
 
Cookie said:
Debbie, no one is even remotely suggesting setting people apart because they are Muslims, how are you getting this from my posts. But let's not be naive, and lets try to remember what are the characteristics of differing religions, how they differ from our social customs and how they might impact us. The kids who join the extremist fundamentalist groups aren't in them because they feel excluded from our society, they have been seriously brainwashed and indoctrinated. Its a pretty powerful force. We didn't do it to them and we are not to blame for whatever dissatisfaction they may have. Other diverse cultural groups have immigrated to Canada, assimilated and participated in our society and there hasn't been any concern that they might turn into terrorists.
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The point I was trying to make and perhaps I didn't state it clearly enough, is that in our minds we start setting people apart or being wary of them always. Not that I was suggesting that you want to put them in concentration camps or anything.

And how do you know that Muslim kids don't feel excluded and particularly as this whole ME fiasco has overheated since 1991 and then 2001? They aren't stupid nor are they deaf and blind. They hear what's going on, Trumps bombastic statements about banning them, excluding them, the support that is loud and continuous for guarding against 'them', the labelling that is going on. Maybe if 'we' weren't so virulently opposed to their presence, when they hear the violence that the clerics are preaching, just maybe they would recognize the flaw in that thinking because that imam would be asking them to target friends and family of friends.

And just like someone mentioned here about extremist Christians, the Christian church came out of a belief that God commanded the genocide and annihilation of other nations, including the women and all the children. And yet today, despite a love for the same book that advocated that kind of violence, for the most part, Christians wouldn't think of doing those things. Why is it so hard then to accept that not all Muslims are ISIS followers or at least 'closet supporters'? Ask Mayor Nenshi how his family feels about the violence that is being perpetrated in the name of his faith? Ask other upstanding members of our society who happen to be Muslim how their teens feel when they hear the kinds of sentiments that ostracize them, if they don't sometimes feel afraid and frustrated by what they hear in society. Ask that Muslim woman in Toronto who was attacked by the nut-case in the red Canada shirt, how she felt when she heard her little baby crying in fear as the woman pulled at her and screamed at her. Are we setting that child up to hate us when he becomes a teenager?

I understand the fear that would try to take us over, but we have to find a bravery in ourselves so that we don't give in to it and give rise to violence. If we only look out for the 'bad', we will find it as it finds us.
 
I welcome the privilege of working with Muslim refugees. Our commonality as human beings vastly outweighs any cultural differences we may have. Frankly, they give me far more than I can ever give them. Their courage astounds me, their

willingness to start again, work hard, and give back to the country that shelters them, is a testament to the beauty and resilience of the human spirit. Salaam. At some point, I will post recipes.
 
Debbie, I think you are preaching to the choir. Let it go. No one is assuming that all Muslims are Isis followers. Have a nice day and stay cool!
 
Debby said:
The point I was trying to make and perhaps I didn't state it clearly enough, is that in our minds we start setting people apart or being wary of them always. Not that I was suggesting that you want to put them in concentration camps or anything.

And how do you know that Muslim kids don't feel excluded and particularly as this whole ME fiasco has overheated since 1991 and then 2001? They aren't stupid nor are they deaf and blind. They hear what's going on, Trumps bombastic statements about banning them, excluding them, the support that is loud and continuous for guarding against 'them', the labelling that is going on. Maybe if 'we' weren't so virulently opposed to their presence, when they hear the violence that the clerics are preaching, just maybe they would recognize the flaw in that thinking because that imam would be asking them to target friends and family of friends.

And just like someone mentioned here about extremist Christians, the Christian church came out of a belief that God commanded the genocide and annihilation of other nations, including the women and all the children. And yet today, despite a love for the same book that advocated that kind of violence, for the most part, Christians wouldn't think of doing those things. Why is it so hard then to accept that not all Muslims are ISIS followers or at least 'closet supporters'? Ask Mayor Nenshi how his family feels about the violence that is being perpetrated in the name of his faith? Ask other upstanding members of our society who happen to be Muslim how their teens feel when they hear the kinds of sentiments that ostracize them, if they don't sometimes feel afraid and frustrated by what they hear in society. Ask that Muslim woman in Toronto who was attacked by the nut-case in the red Canada shirt, how she felt when she heard her little baby crying in fear as the woman pulled at her and screamed at her. Are we setting that child up to hate us when he becomes a teenager?

I understand the fear that would try to take us over, but we have to find a bravery in ourselves so that we don't give in to it and give rise to violence. If we only look out for the 'bad', we will find it as it finds us.
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"In 1967, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., isolated himself from the demands of the civil rights movement, rented a house in Jamaica with no telephone, and labored over his final manuscript. In this prophetic work, which has been unavailable for more than ten years, he lays out his thoughts, plans, and dreams for America's future, including the need for better jobs, higher wages, decent housing, and quality education. With a universal message of hope that continues to resonate, King demanded an end to global suffering, asserting that humankind-for the first time-has the resources and technology to eradicate poverty."

This is an excerpt from "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community? (King Legacy)"

Dr King knew protesting and demanding one's right was only part of the equation, where are we going to go with the rights and freedoms once they have been won, not only as a people; but as a nation. You defeat racism, ,poverty, inequality, and segregation as a people, not / blacks/ whites/Asian and/or Latin, not Muslim, Christian, and/ or Jewish;but one nation. Until we can ban together to battle these injustices, until we start seeing ourselves as "a" people; the slaughter will never cease.
 
Reading your comment senile1, I was reminded of the Brexit situation and the demands for change.......every time there is a demand for change, there's also a need for a recalibration of the status quo. And in every one of those instances, a requirement that we begin to quit separating from one another. Do you think humanity will ever manage that? Sometimes I feel a glimmer of hope and then I turn on the news........and well, you know hope is dashed once again.:(

Seems like there's such an effort, with phrases like 'lest we forget' and 'learn from our mistakes' and 'history has many lessons for us' and we never really learn. I guess we take comfort from offering 'lip service' to kindnesses and compassion but fail to put our own lives on that line by making new choices that will pull society in the right direction. While Gandhi may have had his own problems with being a racist, that famous quote of his, 'Be the change that you would see in the world' still stands. The question is, who is listening.
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Cookie said:
Debbie, I think you are preaching to the choir. Let it go. No one is assuming that all Muslims are Isis followers. Have a nice day and stay cool!
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I think there are lots of people who assume that all Muslims are ISIS followers or at least give a certain mental assent to their philosophies. Why else do Donald Trumps cries for banning all Muslims get support from enough people to put him in the position of a Presidential hopeful? Right here on our forum, the words of Bevie lend support to that notion. He/she said, '...Here's my opinion. Muslims shouldn't be allowed here at all. My neighbor, from another country, had his 3 young children burned to death in their Christian school by Muslims. His wife had her throat cut when she rushed to the school. He said never ever trust a Muslim. You can live by them 30 years, even consider them a friend but it their Imam tells them to kill you , they will. Islam is like belonging to the Mafia. You don't DARE go against orders because they will kill you or your family. Also my stepfather was from Lebanon. The atrocities that Hezbollah (It doesn't matter what name they use) committed were unspeakable. They don't just shoot you. They find awful ways to torture, rape and kill you.

No indication in Bevie's comments that there is a differentiation between ISIS supporters and moderate Muslims.
 
Guess my husband should stop going to his Muslim barber... he gets really close to his throat with a straight razor.. Never know when he may decide to shave him a little too close.. like into his jugular.. [/sarcasm]
 
Debby said:
I think there are lots of people who assume that all Muslims are ISIS followers or at least give a certain mental assent to their philosophies. Why else do Donald Trumps cries for banning all Muslims get support from enough people to put him in the position of a Presidential hopeful? Right here on our forum, the words of Bevie lend support to that notion. He/she said, '...Here's my opinion. Muslims shouldn't be allowed here at all. My neighbor, from another country, had his 3 young children burned to death in their Christian school by Muslims. His wife had her throat cut when she rushed to the school. He said never ever trust a Muslim. You can live by them 30 years, even consider them a friend but it their Imam tells them to kill you , they will. Islam is like belonging to the Mafia. You don't DARE go against orders because they will kill you or your family. Also my stepfather was from Lebanon. The atrocities that Hezbollah (It doesn't matter what name they use) committed were unspeakable. They don't just shoot you. They find awful ways to torture, rape and kill you.

No indication in Bevie's comments that there is a differentiation between ISIS supporters and moderate Muslims.
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I just bit my tongue (typing fingers) after reading her post. I've given up on even trying to argue with Islamaphobes.
 
I belong to another forum. It has a rant section. Oooh, the comments regarding Muslims/Syrian refugees, not just from extreme Libertarians, but my own Canucks gave me the shivers. One American lady, former teacher, avowed Christian, stated

that when a portion of a society are murderous, the peaceful people are irrelevant. Eeek, what can you do with that? Under that philosophy, all of us are doomed. I exited that group before I lost it. The comments were so hateful. These are

racist/Islamophobes, full of a thinly disguised hatred. I want to dip my mind in bleach. This forum would never permit such blatant hatred.
 

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