Re: Guns in US

I work in that world prescribe the meds , diagnose sometimes administer don't need to read Atlantic
i gave you three reads you could -- do Hills, Schrodger, Godel as soon as you catch up to what some of the great thinkers have said about altered states get back.

Any prescription drug alters the response and cognitive abilities. Society only has enough hospital beds to treat a small portion. The rest are medicated or counseled so they can still get out on the streets. Some, like the ones in Atlantic article, are unable too.

Rolling Stones, Hey you get off of my cloud and a one and two

not trying to change your reality, but until you get that parrot off your shoulder this conversion is over
 

Debby said:
...how do you feel about the failure of officials to curtail the straw purchases that apparently are sickenly easy to accomplish and which facilitate all those criminals getting their hands on weapons to assault the public and each other with?
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I think the criminals should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books. As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony. Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.

Arrest 'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel. The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.


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SeaBreeze said:
I think the criminals should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books. As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony. Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.

Arrest 'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel. The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.


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Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?
 
Ed Mashburn said:
Good evening to all-
Too many people on the US have too many guns, and kids and other people are being killed by guns. And yes, I realize that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. I also realize that the world has changed very much since the Second Amendment was written, and I seriously doubt that the founders would see our society and the problems we face in the same light that they saw the problems of their time- and therefore, they probably would not think that unlimited gun access such as we have now would be such a very good thing.
As I mentioned earlier, having people close to you killed by guns- whether used in anger or in accident- changes the way you see the world. At least, it changed the way I see the world.

good evening to all- Ed
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Ed, I have thought about that, too. Times have changed drastically. I wonder if the laws from 230 or so years ago really fit with today's society. I'm not saying to take away the second amendment but some updating of it may be a good idea!!! But then no one would go for it probably! Or would they??
 
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Ruthanne said:
Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?
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No not correct. Most criminals are not rehabilitated and most are on parole. If caught with a weapon they go back or additional charges are brought. A far bigger problem is drugs. The cops know who the bad guys are and pat them down for drugs. In about 30 % of these encounters the parole is carrying. They are arrested and the gun which is stolen property is returned to its owner.

with the us having such rates of folks in prison it puts a lot of pressure on the financial resources of the tax bases.

several towns in the us have very to virtually no crime rates no detention center, any only 1 or 2 cops per 10000 people.
cody Wyoming and Gunsite Arizona
it is a city ordance that citizens carry
 
Ruthanne said:
Ed, I have thought about that, too. Times have changed drastically. I wonder if the laws from 230 or so years ago really fit with today's society. I'm not saying to take away the second amendment but some updating of it may be a good idea!!! But then NO ONE would go for it probably!
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The problem is not having sunset laws such as the one put on Slick Willies AWB back in the nineties . This leaves many unenforceable laws on the books and a burden on law enforcement resources.
The biggest problem is a law making system that does not have a feedback system to determine if the laws are doing what they were passed for in the first place.

with the swing door system of get criminals out of one system and into society self defense and carry become even more important
 
The main problem with criminals and guns is rarely talked about. Why do criminals get guns? The answer is not to commit robberies etc. these items are what makes the press. Most criminals get a gun for protection. Some deal drugs and know another criminal will steal from them some have made enemies which gets into the gang stuff.
whether these folks should be allowed the right of self defence I will not get into. One fact is very clear. They don't give chit what you think. Because they have been denied access thru legal channels they will get them any way they can.
So let's punish law abiding people by doing away with guns, knowing full well that prohibition type legislation works so well.

fortunately the gun sales in June and July have doubled since even last year. NRA membership has doubled from 5 mill. Members in pre Obama to 10 mil.

I would personally like to thank Big O, for his historic gun sales, and thank Hills for her astronomical triple kick in the last 2 months and her work on NRA membership increase over the last year. Now where can send the Fickle Finger of Fate so they can enjoy it?
 
SeaBreeze said:
I think the criminals should be dealt with, and like Rt3 said, the government has to enforce the laws that are already on the books. As far as straw purchases being 'sickenly' easy to accomplish, that's something I doubt since the form that Rt3 mentioned, takes care of straw purchases or the violator is charged with a felony. Also numerous states have added regulations that require background checks for private sales/transfers, many private sellers in those states just go through a licensed dealer.

Arrest 'all those criminals getting their hands on weapons', that's how I feel. The criminals do not follow gun laws, a fact that falls on deaf ears regardless of how often repeated.


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Well according to the following article straw purchases in some areas is easy. And I know, you're going to dismiss the article because of the source. But you know, sometimes viewing the opposing argument is a learning experience.

It seems to me that if a gun shop owner is seen to be selling an extraordinary number of guns to the same person(s), than it needs to be addressed...don't you think? Those gun shop owners are part of the problem and should be sitting in a cell beside the criminals that they sell to. Going to the section marked 'Findings', you have to wonder, were all the stores that allegedly sold hundreds of guns to criminals ever prosecuted? Were they closed down and who took up the mantle of gun seller to criminals. If those laws are on the books and all the authorities are able to track which shops have straw purchases going through them to the degree that apparently they are....why aren't your laws being enforced?



'...When a gun is recovered in a crime, the ATF can use the serial number on the gun to trace back to where it first left the legal market – tracing from the first sale of the firearm by an importer or manufacturer, to the wholesaler or retailer, to the first retail purchaser. In some cases, that first retail purchaser is the link between the legal and illegal markets.3Looking at trace information from 1998, the ATF found that “a small group of dealers accounts for a disproportionately large number of crime gun traces.”4 More than 85 percent of dealers in the U.S. had no crime guns traced to them at all in 1998, while about 1 percent of licensed firearm dealers accounted for 57 percent of traces that same year....'

'One former trafficker we interviewed called the store where he purchased guns the “easiest store in Georgia.” “That was the word – you want some guns, you go to [that store].”....1. Traffickers picked “easy” stores
Based on a review of information from more than 1,000 gun-trafficking prosecutions, we noted numerous instances where a trafficker would return again and again to the same store. For example, in a Pennsylvania case filed in 2006, a straw purchaser bought 27 guns, revisiting the same store 15 times in about nine months, in exchange for crack and/or money.15 In Georgia, a trafficking ring used straws to buy 26 guns over seven visits to the same store and then resold them on the streets of New York City......This trafficker testified that he bought at least 55 guns in five visits to this store – three during a three-week period in 1998 – using straw purchasers and fake IDs.18
He served seven years in jail.
The store where this trafficker purchased guns had more than 600 traces

between 1996 and 2000, and it allegedly sold at least 300 guns to straw purchasers between 1998 and 2006, according to a review of prosecutions and an analysis of trace data. This number of traces was at least 170 times the 1998 national average of 0.67 traces per licensed gun dealer, per year.19.'

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/inside-straw-purchasing-criminals-get-guns-illegally/
 
Debby, you're obviously more concerned about this than I am, as I said enforce the laws that are on the books and arrest the criminals. I don't care if you agree with me or not, I'm not so bold as to argue with people or try to change their opinions, I respect their rights to their own personal views. Nobody I've ever known has committed a crime with their guns or bought guns for a criminal. If this is happening with frequency, then the authorities need to do their jobs. People who are so driven to add more gun laws for the law abiding Americans to follow, can join movements like the anti-gun site you linked to, that's their business.
 
Everytown is Bloombergs gun control machine. Last fall the had a convention in LasVegas for media people on hoe to talk guns to the public. Naturally Nbc was there. It used to be Mayors against Guns but most of the mayors quit after discovery what he was up to. They go around to gun stores and try to bait the owners into making straw purchases. They have been blocked from doing this by a federal court just 2 weeks ago. The court held that Everytown was violating the straw purchase and could be persecuted. Oh well I guess the end justifys the means.

Gun owners buy guns from a manufacture which requires a Federal Firearms lic. Store audits by the ATF are done electronically and spikes in sales are investigated.
Most of this article is pure crap for the following reasons.

most states have limits on both quantity and frequency as per their state law. I think the state they are talking about is 3 handguns in 10 days.
your going to believe the testimony of a crook who has just made a plea bargain.
All
gun dealers, pawn shops, finger print the seller and go through the FBI background check., so the FBI missed it. hmm is that the same FBI that couldn't find any anything on a certain political candidate. Nahhhhh can't be
 
Indeed

speaking of which 2 of Bloombergs paid bots are Gabby Gifford and her husband. Her husband failed the FBI backround and was denied the purchase in a Arizona gun store where they were baiting the dealer on straw purchases. Glad to see the FBI was on top of things, also good to know that MSM didn't report it no bias there
 
Wow 3, I see you still have your attitude, bite everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just what qualifies you to be the reality police, and consider any argument but your own specious? Btw, I don't believe that everyone lives in a fantasy world, but your

unhappiness with your life is telegraphed with every comment you post. Such a bleak perspective. Sad, really. Now, I shall place you on ignore. Have a nice day.
 
Thank you. But condescending doesn't look good on you. I get it from making rounds in the rehab wing. It keeps me on my toes. I have the reality because I have the keys.
 
America is certainly experiencing some severe challenges at this time. My heart goes out to all the Americans trying to find a better way for the country they love. Hugs. IMHO, it is less than helpful that some posters who have no interest in engaging in

positive discourse, merely use the board as a venue to sow dissension. Such derisive comments only serve to encourage divisiveness, and leach the hope from those who struggle to maintain an optimistic outlook, while exploring ways to improve things inside their country. Without optimism, one is already defeated.
 
rt3 said:
No not correct. Most criminals are not rehabilitated and most are on parole. If caught with a weapon they go back or additional charges are brought. A far bigger problem is drugs. The cops know who the bad guys are and pat them down for drugs. In about 30 % of these encounters the parole is carrying. They are arrested and the gun which is stolen property is returned to its owner.

with the us having such rates of folks in prison it puts a lot of pressure on the financial resources of the tax bases.

several towns in the us have very to virtually no crime rates no detention center, any only 1 or 2 cops per 10000 people.
cody Wyoming and Gunsite Arizona
it is a city ordance that citizens carry
Click to expand...
I was referring to first time offender criminals.
 
Ruthanne said:
Yes, I agree to arrest the criminals getting their hands on weapons but it is often not until they commit a crime with the gun that they are arrested, no?
Click to expand...

Ruthanne, I think it's a rare case that someone who has never committed any crimes before gets someone to guy a gun for them so they can commit a gun crime.

Most of these people have been involved with physical assaults on others both with their bare hands or other weapons like knives, they have been involved in robberies, both home or car hijacking, they have been involved with petty theft, stealing handbags or wallets, domestic abuse, rapes, etc., etc.

Many are involved in street gangs and are guilty of all of the above. Few people have had no rap sheets or any involvement with the law when they attain a gun to commit a crime. And many times the police are aware of these individuals and don't react until they commit the next crime to add to their list.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Ruthanne, I think it's a rare case that someone who has never committed any crimes before gets someone to guy a gun for them so they can commit a gun crime.

Most of these people have been involved with physical assaults on others both with their bare hands or other weapons like knives, they have been involved in robberies, both home or car hijacking, they have been involved with petty theft, stealing handbags or wallets, domestic abuse, rapes, etc., etc.

Many are involved in street gangs and are guilty of all of the above. Few people have had no rap sheets or any involvement with the law when they attain a gun to commit a crime. And many times the police are aware of these individuals and don't react until they commit the next crime to add to their list.
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I know of some people who were like that(involved with the law) so I know that is true. I guess it is most likely a rare case that is a first time offender with a gun.
 
Shalimar said:
America is certainly experiencing some severe challenges at this time. My heart goes out to all the Americans trying to find a better way for the country they love. Hugs. IMHO, it is less than helpful that some posters who have no interest in engaging in

positive discourse, merely use the board as a venue to sow dissension. Such derisive comments only serve to encourage divisiveness, and leach the hope from those who struggle to maintain an optimistic outlook, while exploring ways to improve things inside their country. Without optimism, one is already defeated.
Click to expand...
To address your comment: Thank you for your empathy to Americans. On the rest of your comment: How do you know who is here that have no interest in positive conversation? I don't see anyone here that is trying to cause divisiveness but comments like yours that are not addressed to anyone in particular can stir up some feelings in people that are not positive and not really helpful either. Please think about that.
 
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Shalimar said:
Wow 3, I see you still have your attitude, bite everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just what qualifies you to be the reality police, and consider any argument but your own specious? Btw, I don't believe that everyone lives in a fantasy world, but your

unhappiness with your life is telegraphed with every comment you post. Such a bleak perspective. Sad, really. Now, I shall place you on ignore. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Love it, starts with an appeal to emotion and end with a reprimand. You should mix it up more
 
I am a firearm owner user and aficionado, and a 2nd amendment supporter.


That being said,I think everyone needs to watch this show.


I watch it on the Viceland network. the show is called "Black Market" and the episode is entitled, "Iron Pipeline."

An extremely well done documentary that should provide a reason to think about unfettered access to firearms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm3UEtU4Z1w
 

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