Guy, rtransgener,

[SifuPhil]

Phil, I knew Key West was very expensive, but wasn't aware it was that expensive! I've only been as a guest.

An average 1-bedroom / 1-bath rents for around $1,500 there.

Details on "escort work," if you weren't kidding....surely you were! LOL

Not kidding, but I don't think this is the forum for it - sorry.

 

[Jackie22]

I've known a few men that were gay, they were very intelligent and funny....always fun to talk to. Homosexuality is not a problem with me and of course there are extremes out there as there is in any sector of the human race.

As for being hit on....one time while I was out shopping, the sales lady struck up a conversation, when I got home, opened up my bag and there was her phone number...lol

 

[Katybug]

I totally enjoy being around gay men, always have, you're very safe with them. We seem to have so much more in common, or that's been the case for me, as they enjoy doing girl stuff with us. They are fun to dine with (love nice restaurants), fun to shop with in stores most men wouldn't be caught dead, and great to share affairs of the heart with. They're always on "our" side with big shoulders to cry on, or the ones I've known have been..sensitive like women. And I especially love their honesty with us, they tell us if it makes our butt look too big! LOL

JACKIE, I've only had that one experience and I guess both women had the attitude in approaching straights is .."well, Columbus took a chance." I didn't appreciate it either, but it was obviously worth a shot to them! LOL

 

[Jackie22]

I totally enjoy being around gay men, always have, you're very safe with them. We seem to have so much more in common, or that's been the case for me, as they enjoy doing girl stuff with us. They are fun to dine with (love nice restaurants), fun to shop with in stores most men wouldn't be caught dead, and great to share affairs of the heart with. They're always on "our" side with big shoulders to cry on, or the ones I've known have been..sensitive like women. And I especially love their honesty with us, they tell us if it makes our butt look too big! LOL

JACKIE, I've only had that one experience and I guess both women had the attitude in approaching straights is .."well, Columbus took a chance." I didn't appreciate it either, but it was obviously worth a shot to them! LOL

Yes, Katy, I agree on the 'being around gay men', I used to have a gay hairdresser, it was always such fun when I went there, I felt totally free to discuss anything with him and he brightened up my outlook for days.....he had this special quality with everyone he came into contact with, he was loved by all that knew him. Honest and sensitive....very good descriptive words for the gays that I've known.

 

[SifuPhil]

So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...

 

[Jackie22]

So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...

LOL....who wants to get married, all you have to do is get your hair done.layful:

 

[Katybug]

So if you ladies love palling around with gays so much, why not marry them? They sound like the perfect partner ...

Silly man! You know very well there's a very definite reason why we don't want to marry them, nor they us if we have no $$$. Only the aging & super wealthy women do that just so they have a companion -- and he's in it strictly for the money. (Liza Minelli has done it twice, once when she was younger, but Peter Allen was in the closet at the time, I think. Last one knocked you down being gay and she was foolish & very desperate to take that jerk on!)

Not for a second do I believe these relationships include romance. Same w/much younger/arm candy straight women marrying very old men like Hugh Hefner! PULEEZE!!!!

Are you a tad jealous, dear Phil, that we find them so appealing as friends? LOL (wink!)

 

[SifuPhil]

Are you a tad jealous, dear Phil, that we find them so appealing as friends? LOL (wink!)

Not at all - just remember that they're only that and can be only that. And don't cry when you start to miss those dear old testosterone-fueled traits.

You gals want the best of all possible worlds - you want a non-threatening man, but when you find one you complain that he's boring; you want a sensitive man, then you carp when he cries too much; you want a presentable man, but hate arguing over where he can store all his skin cremes and moisturizing shampoos; you check off the little box under "Friend" or "Lover" within the first two minutes of meeting us, then wonder why we go and leave you. You don't respect us as men when we're your friend and you can't tolerate us as a friend if we act like a man.

And don't say that it's a woman's prerogative to want both - waterboarding is a less torturous method of achieving that kind of balance.

I'm not jealous, dear Katy - I'm experienced.

 

[TICA]

Works both ways Phil! In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.

Most women just want a PARTNER. Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive. I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.

The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying. That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.

 

[SifuPhil]

Works both ways Phil! In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.

Meh ... experience ...

Most women just want a PARTNER. Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive. I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.

If I may be so bold as to re-do this paragraph ...

Most women just want a PROVIDER. Someone they can be themselves around (nasty), a man who is not all ego (but then berate him for being a wimp), a man who does not put her down ever (even while she's emasculating him), and a man who is supportive (financially).

The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying. That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.

And those same gay men have a whole different set of emotional luggage to deal with ... but since it's similar in appearance to the female's it seems to be easier to cope.

It's a bit difficult to override our native programming, but that's what happens when a straight gal hooks up with a gay guy. He's just another girlfriend to her, so if she isn't herself gay she's going to be left wanting in a lot of areas. So why put forth the effort needed to be friends with a fake girl when the biological imperative is to hook up with a straight man? What do you gain with a gay man that you don't get with a straight girlfriend?

 

[TICA]

No - you cannot be so bold and re-do my paragraph... I've been married twice - yup - you think I would have learned the first time. In both cases, I ended up being the provider and NEVER have been supported by a man. Both of them threatened me with paying them alimony. Two children on my own and they had the balls to request alimony. Just another way they thought to be intimidating.

I'm not saying I would ever marry a gay man - I'll never marry again anyway, but I'm not so badly put off men that I'd marry a gay one. I have lots of friends that are male (not gay) so if I was going to marry a friend, it wouldn't be a gay one. Cheating is cheating in my mind so regardless of if a husband cheats with a man or a woman, it is still cheating.

Lots of gay men are not like women at all. I think there is a misconception among men that girlfriends sit around and spill their inner soul. My experience is that that is not true at all. Lots of women sit around bitching about their men and to be truthful, I never did that and didn't want to listen to it either. No woman that I know spills their innermost secrets to her best girlfriend. I hate to admit it, but the women friends I have can't be trusted to keep a secret, therefore, I won't tell them mine.

What do you gain with a gay man that you don't get with a straight girlfriend? Arms to hold you when in despair, a man's point of view (gay men are men after all), a tendency to be more open in our conversations. I'm not saying all gay men are like that, but the ones I knew were close. Someone to go out with and not be worried about being hit on. And...... the best part is that gay men LOVE to dance. Good times all around!!!

 

[Old Hipster]

I've known some gay men who absolutely hated women, there are some very "butch" gay men, for lack of a better word and they do not like straight females at all.

Shoot I'm at work and it's lunchtime..

I'll be back later!

 

[SifuPhil]

... a man's point of view (gay men are men after all) ...

Not by MY definition of the word ... biologically, yes, but mentally, emotionally, and socially? No way. You might as well ask a mouse how the cat feels.

Sorry if that isn't PC but it's how I feel, and you should appreciate me baring my soul.

 

[SifuPhil]

I've known some gay men who absolutely hated women, there are some very "butch" gay men, for lack of a better word and they do not like straight females at all.

Exactly. And I've known a few (to use a very non-PC term from the '70's) "fag-hags" that made it their goal in life to collect as many gay men into their clique as possible in order to be the queen bee. They wanted to exercise their sense of power and control, no straight man worth his salt would allow them to do so, so they did it with gay men.

 

[TICA]

Not by MY definition of the word ... biologically, yes, but mentally, emotionally, and socially? No way. You might as well ask a mouse how the cat feels.

Sorry if that isn't PC but it's how I feel, and you should appreciate me baring my soul.

Baring of souls is always appreciated! I could have reworded the comment about gay men are men. What I mean is that every man has spent more time around other men than I have. I think they just understand the male mind more than a woman could. There are a whole lot of gay men out there that are not outwardly gay - sports jocks, CEO's, politicians, mechanics, teachers, doctors - and you would never know their sexual preference by their actions or appearance.

Love hearing your point of view but my point is that I feel you suggesting that gay men are more like women than men and I don't agree.

Cookies are burning - I'll be back!

 

[SifuPhil]

Oh, heavens to Betsy, the cookies are burning! Help! Assistance! *palms on face* layful:

I know I'm painting with a broad brush but I'm in one of those moods today.

Love hearing your point of view but my point is that I feel you suggesting that gay men are more like women than men and I don't agree.

But isn't that the very point that is being made here? That they give a shoulder to cry on, they empathize, they hang out with the girls, they shop with the best of them and are great dancers?

According to society, that makes them more like women than men.

Just as I'm stereotyping gay men I'm doing the same to straight men - they all drink beer, watch football, scratch themselves, can't dance and are totally without empathy.

Being Taoist I agree that something in the middle would be nice, but seeking "balance" is a fool's journey - I should know, I've been teaching it my entire life. Having a perfectly balanced partner would be a horrible relationship. Without the energy, the dynamics, of occasional trips to the extreme ends of the scale life would be painfully boring. Forcing yourself into gender roles, whether they be gay, straight or any of the other permutations, is a death-trap, yet we are forced by society to do that exact thing. It's only the extremely brave and self-aware person that breaks out of those molds.

Katy said I was jealous, but that isn't it. I'm pissed. I'm pissed because the gay friend is setting an impossibly high bar to reach, one that, if I chose to reach for it, would irrevocably change me into something I don't want to become. I enjoy being a man, thinking like a man and acting like a man, at least so far as my personal definition of "man" will cover, and in attempting to be more like your gay friends just to please you I am going against my own true nature.

I suppose, as with your two husbands, we ultimately have only our own experiences to learn from. Yours is respectable and understandable. I hope you extend the same courtesy to mine.

 

[TICA]

Well said and your opinion on seeking balance is respected as well. As you said, you've been teaching that your whole life so I'll have to bow to your wisdom.

However...... I prefer to think that there is balance in all relationships and also realize they are not perfect. There are many people on this forum that have been married for years and years and are still in love. They obviously have been successful in finding their balance whereas we have not. To be honest, I'm jealous that they have found that elusive thing that I have not been able to find.

Well, I guess this got off topic from the gay conversation. Sorry! The thing is that a friend is a friend and if that is a girl, a guy, a gay guy or a gay girl, they are still your friend. My point is that their sexual preference shouldn't matter. Really good friends are hard to come by so be loyal to those that are loyal to you.


I said earlier that I would want a partner (not a provider), and would also want someone who accepts me as I am. I would give that partner the same acceptance and not try and change them. I'm sure there must be few men out there that don't scratch themselves and drink beer - on second thought - maybe not.....

 

[Old Hipster]

The most important characteristic in a person, something I really value is the ability to be silly, be able to laugh yourself's silly over the dumbest things, and things that don't even begin to make sense to anybody else.

I can do this with my husband, he is almost as silly as some of the gay men I knew. When me and the mister got together about 35 years ago, my best friend in the world was a gay man and we were inseperable. My very straight new boyfriend, my now husband, accepted him completely. I'll never forget a New Year's party I had and at the stroke of midnight, my future husband gave my gay friend a big sloppy kiss right on the lips. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And it shocked the hell out of everybody.

And no snide remarks from anybody (*cough cough* Phil :sentimental about anything creepy going on with the 3 of us.

 

[TICA]

You are a very lucky woman Old Hipster and contrats on 35 years.

 

[Old Hipster]

You are a very lucky woman Old Hipster and contrats on 35 years.

Thank you TICA, we are both lucky, because we are a couple of odd ducks and we are pretty sure nobody else could put up with either one of us. :sentimental:

 

[rkunsaw]

I am friendly toward everyone unless someone gives me a reason not to be friendly toward them. But as for being friends with a gay man.... that just won't happen. I was friendly to those I worked around but would never spend any amount of time with them than necessary.

 

[That Guy]

 

[Katybug]

Works both ways Phil! In some ways you are quite correct in that we want the best of all possible worlds although I don't agree that we complain when a non-threatening man is boring; carp when a sensitive man cries to much etc etc.

Most women just want a PARTNER. Someone they can be themselves around, a man who is not all ego, a man who does not put her down ever, and a man who is supportive. I don't know why men (at least the ones I've been involved with) find that so difficult.

The bottom line is that most gay men can be all of those things without even trying. That my Dear is why women relate really well with gay men.

My feelings exactly. So well stated, TICA!

 

[Katybug]

I am friendly toward everyone unless someone gives me a reason not to be friendly toward them. But as for being friends with a gay man.... that just won't happen. I was friendly to those I worked around but would never spend any amount of time with them than necessary.

You're so funny, RK, as we would never expect a man to feel the way some of us women feel about gay men. It's a girl thing. Too bad men don't have the same feelings about gay women, but I totally understand -- the comparison is like apples to oranges.

 

[GDAD]

The most important characteristic in a person, something I really value is the ability to be silly, be able to laugh yourself's silly over the dumbest things, and things that don't even begin to make sense to anybody else.

I can do this with my husband, he is almost as silly as some of the gay men I knew. When me and the mister got together about 35 years ago, my best friend in the world was a gay man and we were inseperable. My very straight new boyfriend, my now husband, accepted him completely. I'll never forget a New Year's party I had and at the stroke of midnight, my future husband gave my gay friend a big sloppy kiss right on the lips. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And it shocked the hell out of everybody.

And no snide remarks from anybody (*cough cough* Phil :sentimental about anything creepy going on with the 3 of us.

Old Hippy: You & your hubby are exactly the same as My Wife & I. WE HAVE FRIENDS THAT ARE GAY: NOT GAY FRIENDS.
We do not introduce our friends as "hi mark This is me lesbian/gay friend" We say "this is our friend" exactly the same
as we introduce all our other friends. ....cheers:cheers: