Obese & Smokers To Be Denied Some Medical Procedures in The UK

Policy was reversed within hours.

Just some locals puffing themselves up with a sense of their own importance!
 

See how many folks I can agitate.... I believe that any and all smokers should not be able to receive ANY government medical benefits or use conveniences such as handicap parking stalls. Smoking is a choice... a choice that is detrimental to one's health. Why should the many pay out of their pockets to benefit the few who choose to continue using tobacco products?
As far as obesity, I also believe there are certain benefits that should not be offered to those who are extremely overweight. Again, modern medical technology can assist with everything from surgeries to psychological help to teach people proper eating habits. Knee, hip, back... lots of additional pressure exerted on those body parts by obesity. Lungs, heart... weight takes its toll. Yet, standards of obesity MUST be have some semblance of common sense. Some of the current BMI standards have 90% of the general public being obese. I walk 3 to 4 miles daily, play golf, and work full time. Yet, by current standards, I am obese. One of our daughters runs daily and does some 5k marathons. She is in excellent physical condition, but by some standards would be considered obese.
 
In a way, I don't blame them. (USUALLY people in both groups have outstanding problems that
they brought upon themselves. ( I know, obesity can't always be controlled: hormonal genes etc. so they're excused.)

Smokers brought it upon themselves.....nobody forced them to start smoking.

Normally diet helps weight and body build.

I have a friend who is grossly overweight and I've tried to help him but he won't change his habit.

His first and only thoughts throughout the day involve FOOD.

A while back he got drunk in a bar and fell down outside. Several of us tried to pick him up but couldn't.

Finally the paramedics were called to take care of him.

Last time I saw him he was eating.
 
Grumpy Ol' Man said:
See how many folks I can agitate.... I believe that any and all smokers should not be able to receive ANY government medical benefits or use conveniences such as handicap parking stalls. Smoking is a choice... a choice that is detrimental to one's health. Why should the many pay out of their pockets to benefit the few who choose to continue using tobacco products?
As far as obesity, I also believe there are certain benefits that should not be offered to those who are extremely overweight. Again, modern medical technology can assist with everything from surgeries to psychological help to teach people proper eating habits. Knee, hip, back... lots of additional pressure exerted on those body parts by obesity. Lungs, heart... weight takes its toll. Yet, standards of obesity MUST be have some semblance of common sense. Some of the current BMI standards have 90% of the general public being obese. I walk 3 to 4 miles daily, play golf, and work full time. Yet, by current standards, I am obese. One of our daughters runs daily and does some 5k marathons. She is in excellent physical condition, but by some standards would be considered obese.
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Eh, yes there are bad and good choices. But the medical industry is supposed to treat anyone regardless of cause. If we are going to get into choices anything from drug abuse to sky diving need to be warned and/or excluded. We had a guy who wasn't a big smoker or drinker smash his vehicle in sanctioned amateur drag racing. He was out of work for months. After the oh my gosh's many at the job were actually upset at him with the same attitude, why should they have to pay for his choices. But that's what medical coverage is there for. By the way people were then reminded of the fine print in the policy, stuff like sky diving, scuba diving and other adventurous endeavors were not covered. I know weekend warrior athletes who can rack up yearly medical bill higher than others decade medical bills.

That being said this is the problem by lumping everyone together in the same health care system with the same funding. It can become too big too fail. A cheaper or free back up health care system should be there who can't afford squat but that's where it should stop. If they want or have to triage and prioritize care and services is one thing but to deny or ignore is another.
 
OK. So now let's move on to some other people. How about those with high cholesterol? That affects a lot of people, both heavy and slim. We'll go back to the old way of thinking, it's their diet. Their fault..maybe it's genetic, let's check the genes. Oh, by the way, we have detected several other genetic predispositions, we may have to drop your insurance. Diabetes? We checked with your dr. and he says your numbers are not consistent, and that is your fault! (Not always) We're not going to grant you that kidney transplant since this is your fault. Heart disease? If only you had exercised and had a better diet, this is your fault so no heart transplant for you. Skin cancer? If you hadn't spent all that time in the sun and tanning salons, your fault! No high price treatment for you! Liver cancer? How much alcohol did you consume? Two beers a day? Your fault! Bad knees? ( we know this often affects runners and other athletes) Wasn't that a choice? Sorry, take these aspirin and this cane, you should have thought of that before all those marathons! I could go on, but if you think rationed healthcare based upon a medical condition being someone's fault or their choice, you are opening a can of worms you may well wished you hadn't!
 
Carla said:
OK. So now let's move on to some other people. How about those with high cholesterol? That affects a lot of people, both heavy and slim. We'll go back to the old way of thinking, it's their diet. Their fault..maybe it's genetic, let's check the genes. Oh, by the way, we have detected several other genetic predispositions, we may have to drop your insurance. Diabetes? We checked with your dr. and he says your numbers are not consistent, and that is your fault! (Not always) We're not going to grant you that kidney transplant since this is your fault. Heart disease? If only you had exercised and had a better diet, this is your fault so no heart transplant for you. Skin cancer? If you hadn't spent all that time in the sun and tanning salons, your fault! No high price treatment for you! Liver cancer? How much alcohol did you consume? Two beers a day? Your fault! Bad knees? ( we know this often affects runners and other athletes) Wasn't that a choice? Sorry, take these aspirin and this cane, you should have thought of that before all those marathons! I could go on, but if you think rationed healthcare based upon a medical condition being someone's fault or their choice, you are opening a can of worms you may well wished you hadn't!
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:yes:
 
Denying anyone health care because of life choices is a VERY bad idea, not to mention being elitist and arrogant. Pretty soon, health care could be denied to just about anyone -- got bitten by a snake? Shouldn't have gone hiking in the woods. Broke your arm? shouldn't have been climbing trees. Fell and broke your hip? Should have been watching where you were going -- and so on and so on. All we need is another way for insurance companies to screw us . . . . Health care cannot be based on the perceived fault of the sick person.
 
Butterfly said:
Denying anyone health care because of life choices is a VERY bad idea, not to mention being elitist and arrogant. Pretty soon, health care could be denied to just about anyone -- got bitten by a snake? Shouldn't have gone hiking in the woods. Broke your arm? shouldn't have been climbing trees. Fell and broke your hip? Should have been watching where you were going -- and so on and so on. All we need is another way for insurance companies to screw us . . . . Health care cannot be based on the perceived fault of the sick person.
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That's for dam sure!
 
Butterfly said:
Denying anyone health care because of life choices is a VERY bad idea, not to mention being elitist and arrogant. Pretty soon, health care could be denied to just about anyone -- got bitten by a snake? Shouldn't have gone hiking in the woods. Broke your arm? shouldn't have been climbing trees. Fell and broke your hip? Should have been watching where you were going -- and so on and so on. All we need is another way for insurance companies to screw us . . . . Health care cannot be based on the perceived fault of the sick person.
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Well said Butterfly, I completely agree.
 
I might question is what would keep people from lying? Someone who tops 250 pounds saying they are 135? A pack a day smoker saying they never had even one? I mean if you're in a doctor's office it's pretty obvious. But on insurance forms you could really say anything.
Come to think of it I remember being pregnant around the time smoking became frowned upon. I might have brushed my teeth and showered ten times and the OB still could tell I hadn't quit. Maybe that's why that kid grew into such a wackjob?:rolleyes:
 
I must declare an interest.

A few years ago I collapsed and mad a blue light trip to a local hospital.

It was a Saturday night and once there I had to wait from 11.45pm until 4.15 am while the staff dealt with drunks and druggies.

Should have left them on the street.
 
Hmmm. On the street eh? Had it not been for the kindness of strangers, my seventeen year old self might have died on the mean streets of Vancouver, or succumbed to self medicating in order to survive that particular hell. No, I wasn't there of my

own volition. Often, things are not as simple as they might seem. I am beyond grateful that I was not left to fend for myself
because of judgemental attitudes.
 
"I was not left to fend for myself
because of judgemental attitudes."

Nor was I suggesting any such thing, but once ambulance crews, trained medics, had ascertained any such case was simply due to overindulgence there was no need for them to be cluttering up emergency wards.

After all, they decided I was not a real emergency and could be left for four hours!
 
Not sure how it works there, Laurie, but where I am you get seen in order of how sick/hurt/injured, whatever, you are. I understand from the ER nurse the day I went in with a dislocated shoulder (and was seen instantly, in spite of a roomful of people waiting) that certain things are categorized as medical emergencies, and some are not. Badly dislocated shoulder is one of them, she said.
 
Butterfly said:
Not sure how it works there, Laurie, but where I am you get seen in order of how sick/hurt/injured, whatever, you are. I understand from the ER nurse the day I went in with a dislocated shoulder (and was seen instantly, in spite of a roomful of people waiting) that certain things are categorized as medical emergencies, and some are not. Badly dislocated shoulder is one of them, she said.
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Yes, emergency staff must triage. They don't always do it well as some is visual, some is life-threatening but not obvious by looking at someone. Such was the case with my Mother a couple times but I blame more the doctor on duty. My Mother had a brain hemorrhage yet she was looking around, laying down on the guerney. They only checked on her every so often--just peeked in. She was totally confused, she kept pointing to a cabinet telling me that the Tylenol was in there and to please get her some as her head hurts really bad! About three hours later, they sent her for CT. Then, maybe an hr later, they told me she needed to be transferred.(this was a small hospital) It was not busy that night, in fact a few people came and went while we just waited. They decided to send her to another hospital, but they were ill-equipped as well. Next day, she had to be transferred to a city hospital. They did emergency surgery, odds were in her favor but things did not go well.

They exercised poor judgement. Maybe because she was older? She was 78. Maybe I share some blame for not hooting and hollering. Maybe the end results would have been the same either way. However, triage is only good as the training they receive. It's not a perfect system. I placed trust in their judgement.
 
If we keep on treating healthcare as goods, stuff like that is bound to happen. Matter of fact, it's happening already on the private healthcare market.
 
Byrd said:
If we keep on treating healthcare as goods, stuff like that is bound to happen. Matter of fact, it's happening already on the private healthcare market.
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In the US it is a for-profit business. In the UK it is not.
 

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