Does the judge have a point?

[Camper6]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ror-over-knees-together-remarks-in-rape-caseI

Il know I'm going to get in trioible for this but here how's anyway and let the chips fall where they may'

 

[Marie5656]

Would he say that to his wife, daughter or granddaughter?

 

[Shalimar]

No, he does not. Aside from the disgusting comments about the young lady adjusting her body, sex hurts sometimes et al, he also referred to the plaintiff several times as the accused. Totally prejudicial. I won't even get into the other aspects of the case. He is a disgrace to a noble profession. His peers agree. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[RadishRose]

The judge not only has no point, he has no brain.

 

[Falcon]

What a bunch of BS ! He claims he wasn't familiar with all of the aspects of rape. DUH !

He should be disbarred and never allowed to "practice" law again.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I saw an update on this that indicated the Judge has resigned.

IMO he should not have had that option, the man should have been removed from the bench.

 

[Camper6]

Would you believe the defendant in this case was acquitted? Twice.

 

[Shalimar]

Would you believe the defendant in this case was acquitted? Twice.

It boggles my mind.

 

[grahamg]

I think he was wrong too but there may be more to it

I saw an update on this that indicated the Judge has resigned.

IMO he should not have had that option, the man should have been removed from the bench.

I think the judge sounds like he was in the wrong too, and of course rape is a complete no no for any right thinking person though attitudes towards sex generally by some in society, where folks try to tell me the number of sexual partners you might have has nothing to do with morality, is unsettling too. If people are behaving in a manner that once upon a time might have been considered irresponsible, as well as immoral, then it gets harder to legislate I'd have thought.

This isn't a defence for the judge who has stepped down but if you read the whole article the accused was acquitted at retrial which would indicate that there was more to the case being reported on that you can gather in a news report. Also, as far as the judge resigning, it does say that by doing so he foregoes any pension entitlements doesn't it, which would have applied had he been sacked, so maybe it was the right result afterall.

 

[Camper6]

I think the judge sounds like he was in the wrong too, and of course rape is a complete no no for any right thinking person though attitudes towards sex generally by some in society, where folks try to tell me the number of sexual partners you might have has nothing to do with morality, is unsettling too. If people are behaving in a manner that once upon a time might have been considered irresponsible, as well as immoral, then it gets harder to legislate I'd have thought.

This isn't a defence for the judge who has stepped down but if you read the whole article the accused was acquitted at retrial which would indicate that there was more to the case being reported on that you can gather in a news report. Also, as far as the judge resigning, it does say that by doing so he foregoes any pension entitlements doesn't it, which would have applied had he been sacked, so maybe it was the right result afterall.

I don't think it's exactly right or automatic that if a person has sex and regrets it the next day that it's rape.

There has to be evidence of some sort and I guess in this case the evidence wasn't there.

 

[Butterfly]

Whether or not there was evidence, and regardless of the outcome of any second trial, that judge was WAY out of line in saying what he did from the bench.

 

[Aunt Bea]

Whether or not there was evidence, and regardless of the outcome of any second trial, that judge was WAY out of line in saying what he did from the bench.

Amen!!!

 

[Camper6]

Whether or not there was evidence, and regardless of the outcome of any second trial, that judge was WAY out of line in saying what he did from the bench.

Obviously. But he did have a point .

 

[grahamg]

Trial by media the end of justice

Whether or not there was evidence, and regardless of the outcome of any second trial, that judge was WAY out of line in saying what he did from the bench.

According to Mrs Thatcher back in the 1980s, "trial by media means the end of justice" or words to that effect.


We all appear to agree the judge was sufficiently "way out of line", including the man himself from the report given in the media account of his examination by other law makers, when he tried to apologise for his behaviour.

 

[Eric]

Whether or not there was evidence, and regardless of the outcome of any second trial, that judge was WAY out of line in saying what he did from the bench.

That judge is a jerk and he has no point at all keep her knees closed and sometimes sex and pain go together? That guy has a loose screw and should have been booted out of his job before he could even save face and resign.

 

[Shalimar]

Obviously. But he did have a point .

What point would that be?

 

[Shalimar]

I think the judge sounds like he was in the wrong too, and of course rape is a complete no no for any right thinking person though attitudes towards sex generally by some in society, where folks try to tell me the number of sexual partners you might have has nothing to do with morality, is unsettling too. If people are behaving in a manner that once upon a time might have been considered irresponsible, as well as immoral, then it gets harder to legislate I'd have thought.

This isn't a defence for the judge who has stepped down but if you read the whole article the accused was acquitted at retrial which would indicate that there was more to the case being reported on that you can gather in a news report. Also, as far as the judge resigning, it does say that by doing so he foregoes any pension entitlements doesn't it, which would have applied had he been sacked, so maybe it was the right result afterall.

I am very uncomfortable in assigning labels of questionable morality as they pertain to women, in particular, since there still exists a huge double standard in the minds of many. As for the accused being acquitted, less than ten percent of rape trials

in Canada result in guilty verdicts. It is so bad, that many women believe it is better to fight back in a rape situation simply for the sake of the credibility which physical damage brings. I know I would. Also, it is helpful to remember, rape is about power, not sex.

 

[grahamg]

Lets agree on rape cases

I am very uncomfortable in assigning labels of questionable morality as they pertain to women, in particular, since there still exists a huge double standard in the minds of many. As for the accused being acquitted, less than ten percent of rape trials

in Canada result in guilty verdicts. It is so bad, that many women believe it is better to fight back in a rape situation simply for the sake of the credibility which physical damage brings. I know I would. Also, it is helpful to remember, rape is about power, not sex.

My desire to avoid defending anyone guilty of rape I hope is as strong as yours, it is an anathema to me.

Unfortunately I've met at least one woman who said something about being "raped" and yet if she had been it would have been an unrecognisable case compared to any sensible understanding of the word, the "rape" which we all abbor. The sketchy details she gave were along the lines of the man concerned was a fairly longterm boyfriend, no violence and as Camper6 said, she was one of those who decided next morning it wasn't consensual - from what I could tell there were no psychological scars and both of them may have been high on drugs at the time - sort that one out in a court, if you were the judge and it came before you.

The words "child abuse" can nowadays be twisted to mean "whatever a judge may consider not in the child's best interests" - a moveable feast if ever there was one, where almost any parent might be found guilty at some time in their lives, and in my opinion continually widening the interpretation removes attention from the terrrible abuse cases we'd all wish to see prevented.

False allegations are I suspect why so many rape cases fall apart but no one should be prepared to accept either situation at face value. The man claiming he is being falsely accused, as I guess all rapist do, and then the women prepared to make false allegations, both situations cannot be accepted without thorough examination in court. I've never been accused of either child abuse or rape (not having ever done either of these terrible things helps obviously, but my ex. and other girlfriends were all basically honest, decent people who wouldn't stoop to false accusations). Nonetheless I have had other false allegations levelled at me (never leading to a court l am glad to say) but I do therefore know how happy to lie some people can be when it suits their interests, and I've discovered these people have made false allegations before against others they've sought to undermine. Lying to the police, an offence in itself, came easy to them and has not lead to any repercussions either, when their lies have been uncovered by the police - doesn't this encourage the belief lying is the way to manipulate the legal system.

Finally I suspect my earlier comments about people concerning: "attitudes towards sex generally by some in society, where folks try to tell me the number of sexual partners you might have has nothing to do with morality" is creating a problem for society. How do you regulate for a world where almost anything is said to go or be okay (BTW I believe in reality most people do still frown on those prepared to be so promiscuous)?

 

[Butterfly]

Considering the amount of humiliation, hassle and everything else rape victims go through prior and during trial, I would be greatly surprised if more than a very few make it up. The truth of the matter is the cards are stacked against the victim from the time she reports the assault all way through trial, and it usually becomes a matter of his word against her word. In this case particularly, with the judge poisoning the jury by making the outrageous comments he did, IMHO there was little or no chance for a guilty verdict. The story probably had enough publication and interest that the same was probably true in any subsequent trial.

BTW, here, child abuse standards are not "made up" by judges, and have little to do with the child's "best interests," except in that it is of course in the child's best interest not to be starved, burned or live in utter squalor with drug addicts, rules of evidence are strictly applied and each case has the right of appeal where the matter is strictly scrutinized by appellate attorneys and the appellate courts. Best interests is a concept that comes up in custody matters, not child abuse matters.

 

[grahamg]

Harm is different I agree

Considering the amount of humiliation, hassle and everything else rape victims go through prior and during trial, I would be greatly surprised if more than a very few make it up. The truth of the matter is the cards are stacked against the victim from the time she reports the assault all way through trial, and it usually becomes a matter of his word against her word. In this case particularly, with the judge poisoning the jury by making the outrageous comments he did, IMHO there was little or no chance for a guilty verdict. The story probably had enough publication and interest that the same was probably true in any subsequent trial.

BTW, here, child abuse standards are not "made up" by judges, and have little to do with the child's "best interests," except in that it is of course in the child's best interest not to be starved, burned or live in utter squalor with drug addicts, rules of evidence are strictly applied and each case has the right of appeal where the matter is strictly scrutinized by appellate attorneys and the appellate courts. Best interests is a concept that comes up in custody matters, not child abuse matters.

We mustn't take this important thread off topic but very briefly I'm sure we agree that the question of "harm" to a child is very differnt to arguments about a child's best interests in custody matters. I brought the subject up simply as an example of how interpretations of "abuse" can become extended, so much so that I've seen it argued that anything done to a child that could be designated not in their interests is then somehow abuse (though not very forcibly I admit).

The other points I've made based upon my experience meeting someone who alluded to having been raped, on the scantist imaginable interpretation of the word, we maybe can't agree about. I would say though that if you were chosen at any time in the future to be a juror in a rape case, you would have to keep an open mind as to whether the man in front of you was guilty or not wouldn't you, or the whole process, and hence justice itself is subverted.

 

[Camper6]

What point would that be?

The point that she didn't do enough to protect herself and it might have been consensual.

And the comment about pain? Well bdsm is consensual isn't it?

 

[Camper6]

Considering the amount of humiliation, hassle and everything else rape victims go through prior and during trial, I would be greatly surprised if more than a very few make it up. The truth of the matter is the cards are stacked against the victim from the time she reports the assault all way through trial, and it usually becomes a matter of his word against her word. In this case particularly, with the judge poisoning the jury by making the outrageous comments he did, IMHO there was little or no chance for a guilty verdict. The story probably had enough publication and interest that the same was probably true in any subsequent trial.

Don't for one minute think that the accused doesn't go through humiliation, hassle, and everything else when the accusation is false.

I'm glad I started this thread so we could see the other side of the story once in a while.

 

[Camper6]

We mustn't take this important thread off topic but very briefly I'm sure we agree that the question of "harm" to a child is very differnt to arguments about a child's best interests in custody matters. I brought the subject up simply as an example of how interpretations of "abuse" can become extended, so much so that I've seen it argued that anything done to a child that could be designated not in their interests is then somehow abuse (though not very forcibly I admit).

The other points I've made based upon my experience meeting someone who alluded to having been raped, on the scantist imaginable interpretation of the word, we maybe can't agree about. I would say though that if you were chosen at any time in the future to be a juror in a rape case, you would have to keep an open mind as to whether the man in front of you was guilty or not wouldn't you, or the whole process, and hence justice itself is subverted.

Good post. Especially when you have had personal experience.

 

[Camper6]

Would he say that to his wife, daughter or granddaughter?

Being the blunt type of guy that he is? Definitely he would say that.

Re finding yourself. Has no one ever said to you 'oh there you are'?

I always say thanks. I never knew where I was till you told me.

 

[Shalimar]

Considering the amount of humiliation, hassle and everything else rape victims go through prior and during trial, I would be greatly surprised if more than a very few make it up. The truth of the matter is the cards are stacked against the victim from the time she reports the assault all way through trial, and it usually becomes a matter of his word against her word. In this case particularly, with the judge poisoning the jury by making the outrageous comments he did, IMHO there was little or no chance for a guilty verdict. The story probably had enough publication and interest that the same was probably true in any subsequent trial.

BTW, here, child abuse standards are not "made up" by judges, and have little to do with the child's "best interests," except in that it is of course in the child's best interest not to be starved, burned or live in utter squalor with drug addicts, rules of evidence are strictly applied and each case has the right of appeal where the matter is strictly scrutinized by appellate attorneys and the appellate courts. Best interests is a concept that comes up in custody matters, not child abuse matters.

Qft.