Passenger dragged off Plane

AprilT

AprilT

Well-known Member
Location
A galaxy far far away
Passenger refused to leave plane voluntarily after being asked to get off to make room for staff. He was forcibly removed. It's in the airlines right to ask passengers to leave a plane when overbooked, but, this was over kill and done it seems after the fact.

 

I saw this on tv and felt sorry for the man. They mishandled him and hit his lip and made it bleed. At least they should have had someone get him off the plane who was capable of getting him off without hurting him if they had to take him off.
 
From the story I heard it was the fault of the airline. I guess when they found that the flight was overbooked they started to ask for volunteers to give up their spots on that plane, and they offered up to $800. When they needed one more person off the plane, they randomly picked this poor guy. I don't blame him for not wanting to leave the plane, he was a doctor with business to attend to and he had a regular ticket, it's not like he was just flying stand-by and knew he may not make that flight. They should have done what they needed to, offer more money until they got one more volunteer.

I also heard that the seats were just for their airline employees to go to another airport where they had flights to work on. Well, they should have just put one of their employees on another airline in a case like that IMO. It would've been a lot cheaper for them in the long run.

I hope this man sues them for calling the cops and taking such drastic physical action, that's way out of line in my opinion. I don't know what's going on with these airlines these days, but I'm glad I rarely have to fly anywhere. Ideally, they wouldn't have allowed the man to board in the first place, dragging him off on the floor was outrageous.
 

Customer service I never hope to see. Our news has educated us ignorant Aussies with a headline

Can airlines really kick a paid passenger off an overbooked flight?
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I am surprised to learn that not only is it possible, it is also commonplace in America.

AIRLINES in the United States often oversell flights on purpose, only to kick paid passengers off — but no other incident has attracted as much attention as the man who was dragged off a plane in Chicago last week.
Video posted on Facebook showed the shock on the faces of other passengers as the man, understood to be a doctor, was dragged off the plane kicking and screaming after he refused to give up his paid seat on an overbooked flight.

And it created a public relations nightmare for the airline as news of the video spread.

Airlines in the United States are allowed to oversell flights, and they frequently do, because they assume that some passengers won’t show up. While it is not a practice among airlines in Australia, in the US, airlines bumped 40,000 passengers last year, not counting those who volunteered to give up their seats.
United Airlines — the centre of the current controversy — booted 3765 passengers off flights just last year.

“Being thrown off a flight because of overbooking is a common scenario in the US, but rarely, if ever, seen in Australia,” finder.com.au’s travel expert Angus Kidman told news.com.au. Our consumer laws provide better protection than what is available in the US so it’s highly unlikely we’d see this happen Down Under. However, it’s definitely something Australians need to be conscious of when booking US flights.”

VOLUNTEERS
When they know a flight is oversold, US airlines will ask for volunteers to give up their seat, usually for a travel voucher or other reward, and a seat on a later flight. According to the government, 434,000 passengers voluntarily gave up seats on America’s largest 12 airlines last year, including nearly 63,000 on United.

The champion of overbookers was Delta Air Lines — about 130,000 passengers on Delta gave up their seats last year.
When voluntary offers don’t work, the airlines can deny boarding — or bump — passengers against their will. That appears to be what happened before Sunday night’s United flight from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky.

In those cases, federal rules spell out how much the airline must pay each passenger. Airlines must give bumped passengers a written statement that explains their compensation rights.

COMPENSATION
Compensation varies by how long the passenger will be delayed. If the airline can rebook the passenger and get him to his destination within an hour of his originally scheduled arrival time, no compensation is required.

If the passenger will arrive between one and two hours later than planned — or between one and four hours for an international flight — the airline must pay the passenger twice the amount of the one-way fare to his destination, up to $675 (A$899). If the passenger will be delayed more than two hours — or four hours for international flights — the airline must pay him four times the one-way fare, up to $1350 (A$1798).
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Why do Americans put up with this practice? IMO overbooking should be illegal and casual vacancies should be filled from standby passengers. Something for the new WH Administration to look into perhaps?
 
Warrigal said:
Customer service I never hope to see. Our news has educated us ignorant Aussies with a headline



I am surprised to learn that not only is it possible, it is also commonplace in America.



Why do Americans put up with this practice? IMO overbooking should be illegal and casual vacancies should be filled from standby passengers. Something for the new WH Administration to look into perhaps?
Click to expand...

You've just seen what happens when someone refuses to put up with it. A presumably peaceful law abiding senior citizen is treated like a common criminal and hauled away like he was in some little banana republic instead of the greatest country in the world. It's time to wake up America!
 
As a retired United pilot, I take exception to this practice and always have. This episode all began with the gate agent. Gate agents are supposed to know how many seats are available on the plane and then to make certain that they do not board more passengers than what they have seats for. I had something similar happen on one of my flights from San Francisco to Dallas. The gate agent screwed up the count and allowed two more passengers to board without checking to make sure that the seats were available, which in this case they were not. Airlines have the right to remove passengers from a plane, but it has always turned out bad for the airline that follows this practice.

On my flight, fortunately, United offered each passenger a $400.00 voucher that could be used for any future flight and a ride to Dallas on the next available flight. On this particular flight, we had several passengers willing to give up their seat without having to beg or remove anyone. Although the Captain is in charge of the aircraft once he has boarded the plane, this issue is out of his hands.
 
This article originally appeared on TIME.com.
In an email to employees on Monday, the United Airlines CEO faulted a passenger who was forcibly removed and dragged from an overbooked flight for being “disruptive and belligerent.”
The airline faced a wave of backlash on Monday, after videos showed officers dragging the passenger off United flight 3411 because it had been overbooked. The man also sustained injuries to head when he struck an armrest while being carried out.
“This situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help,” CEO Oscar Munoz said in email to employees, reported by CNBC. “Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you.”
 
Ruthanne said:
I saw this on tv and felt sorry for the man. They mishandled him and hit his lip and made it bleed. At least they should have had someone get him off the plane who was capable of getting him off without hurting him if they had to take him off.
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The man doing the actual dragging does not appear to be a police officer..(???)
 
When we check in at the departure section of the airport we are allocated a seat number. How is it possible to allocate seats to more passengers than there are seats?

In this recent case, the correct number of passengers were boarded and seated but the airline wanted to prioritise four employees and were determined to bump four passengers from the plane. This is totally a totally unacceptable way to treat paying customers. Surely there are other ways to shuttle the staff from one airport to another.

By laying a hand on any of the passengers I believe the staff were guilty of assault because the passengers had every right to refuse to give up their seats. Whoever allowed it to get so out of hand needs to be held to account.
 
It seems that airlines have become little more than an airborne "Greyhound Bus" in recent years...shove as many as possible on board, and offer minimal amenities. Flying used to be a pleasure, where the passengers were treated almost like VIP's....sadly, no more....unless you buy a First Class seat. If an airline cannot even "count" the number of passengers slated to take a given flight, that shows a severe lack of operational procedures, on their part.

I hope this passenger takes United to court, and wins a substantial settlement...perhaps then, that will send a wake up call to an industry that increasingly treats its airplanes like airborne "Cattle Cars".
 
I would NEVER allow myself to be dragged off an airline ! I would walk off myself and take up the matter
afterwards with the airline company and/or a lawyer.

Oh, and what's this about the man being a "doctor" ? What does THAT have to do with anything?

Are we supposed to genuflect in their presence?

IMO, He ASKED to be dragged off by NOT complying with rules.
 
Falcon said:
I would NEVER allow myself to be dragged off an airline ! I would walk off myself and take up the matter
afterwards with the airline company and/or a lawyer.

Oh, and what's this about the man being a "doctor" ? What does THAT have to do with anything?

Are we supposed to genuflect in their presence?

IMO, He ASKED to be dragged off by NOT complying with rules.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. If an airline screws up, and I would have to give up my seat, I would like to think that I would be "Adult" enough to avoid making a Scene, and just grumble a bit while heading for the airline ticket counter to demand talking to someone in a management position. Things happen that are beyond our control, but behaving badly just makes the situation worse.
 
So the treatment was ok with you? Why didn't they just raise the bid to give up a seat.
What made them choose this particular passenger to abuse, What went into the decision? I can promise you that if they had offered a generous enough package some passenger would have eventually accepted.

What did this little dance end up costing them?

While there is a limit on what they have to offer the is no limit on what they may offer.
How much is it woth it to them to get this particular crew to where the need to be? Obviously several million or so.

Once you are off the plane they hold all the cards, I may be persuaded to leave,but my deal is going to inked and witnessed before my seatbelt comes off.
 
Warrigal said:
When we check in at the departure section of the airport we are allocated a seat number. How is it possible to allocate seats to more passengers than there are seats?

In this recent case, the correct number of passengers were boarded and seated but the airline wanted to prioritise four employees and were determined to bump four passengers from the plane. This is totally a totally unacceptable way to treat paying customers. Surely there are other ways to shuttle the staff from one airport to another.

By laying a hand on any of the passengers I believe the staff were guilty of assault because the passengers had every right to refuse to give up their seats. Whoever allowed it to get so out of hand needs to be held to account.
Click to expand...


Dame: When boarding passes are issued, a seat number should appear on that pass. However, there are instances when the plane would have been booked full, perhaps as much as two weeks in advance of the departure date. During those two weeks prior to the flight departing, it is likely that there will be some passengers canceling for various reasons. This is why the airline will then allow another 5 or so passengers to book the same flight without a seat number being issued. If no one cancels, then those passengers holding a boarding pass without a seat number would probably be put on standby status.

The plane that I flew, generally seated anywhere from 250-285 passengers, depending on which version of the aircraft we were scheduled to use. In this case, normally, we almost always had last minute cancellations and therefore; we would have allowed standbys to be seated. If, say I was flying a B-767-400 and it seated 280 passengers, the airline may book 290 passengers. If everyone who had a seat number showed up, then those passengers without a seat number would go on standby or be given a seat on the next flight. If United's next flight was full, the gate agent is "supposed" to find a seat for the passenger(s) on another airline. Truthfully, that seldom happens, but it does routinely happen.

Also, if you read the fine print in the rules for passengers that are ticketed, which in the business is called "Contract of Carriage," you will read that the airline does have the right to remove passengers under certain situations and using the approved FAA protocol. One really needs to be a lawyer to understand all of the fine print. However, there is also a Bill of Rights for passengers that the airlines with the approval of the FAA has available. But, the bottom line here is that when you "click" on the button to accept the terms when purchasing your ticket, you have just agreed to the airlines's terms. This is not to say that a judge could rule that the language is ambiguous for a layman to understand and side with the plaintiff.

I agree with the consensus here on this board. It is best to comply with the airlines request to give up the seat and fight it later. United is not the uncaring giant that it's made out to be. We, including myself, have all, been unhappy at times with the service that we receive from an airline, but I am willing to tolerate some inconvenience in order to get to my destination in a few hours, instead of driving for two days. And, just maybe, if you complain loud enough, you may get a bump to first class. It never hurts to ask.

Sorry for the long post.
 
Falcon said:
I would NEVER allow myself to be dragged off an airline ! I would walk off myself and take up the matter
afterwards with the airline company and/or a lawyer.

Oh, and what's this about the man being a "doctor" ? What does THAT have to do with anything?

Are we supposed to genuflect in their presence?

IMO, He ASKED to be dragged off by NOT complying with rules.
Click to expand...

The practice of bumping stinks. But yes what does him being a doctor or even if he was an ex convict for that matter have to do with anything. He wasn't complying no matter the reason. Take it to court bring the issue out in public. That being said if he had calmly exited the plane with airline personnel and went to a lawyer and filed a suit hours later this still wouldn't be a news headline.
 
I haven't bought a plane ticket in 3 or 4 years but is there some fine print at the bottom saying they might be over booked and you'll have to give up your seat? I know my husband has given up his seat a few times and he was always happy with the vouchers they gave him. Once we were even able to give our daughter a free trip to Chicago to visit her dying friend. I thought it was nice that he was able to give the free ticket away and wasn't the only one who could use it.

I think I would have taken the $800 and walked off the plane with my dignity intact.
 
Falcon said:
I would NEVER allow myself to be dragged off an airline ! I would walk off myself and take up the matter
afterwards with the airline company and/or a lawyer.

Oh, and what's this about the man being a "doctor" ? What does THAT have to do with anything?

Are we supposed to genuflect in their presence?

IMO, He ASKED to be dragged off by NOT complying with rules.
Click to expand...

Falcon, I agree. I wouldn't make such a spectacle, either. There is no point at all to that; once they decide you are going to get off the plane, you are going to get off that plane one way or another. Throwing a tantrum just costs you your dignity and makes you look like an idiot.

Secondly, I seriously doubt that that guy was a doctor, whatever that difference that makes. No doctor I know would make such a spectacle -- most of them are VERY concerned about dignity and public perception. If he WERE a physician and were racing to some operating room to do a heart transplant or some such, I feel pretty confident that if he would have given that information to the airline, they would have chosen someone else.
 
I usually don't watch the TV program called TZM but it was on tonight so I watched it to see what they were saying about the doctor. It seems he was in trouble (and I think they said he lost his license) a few years ago and had 90 some counts against him for trading drugs for sex. There was something else he was in trouble for but I can't recall what it was. I do have to admit, right or wrong this has colored my feelings even more.

I just saw a cute meme from some other airline. It said "We might lose your baggage but we won't beat the hell out of you." I also got a big laugh out of all the slogans Warrigal shared. :playful:
 
oldman said:
Dame: When boarding passes are issued, a seat number should appear on that pass. However, there are instances when the plane would have been booked full, perhaps as much as two weeks in advance of the departure date. During those two weeks prior to the flight departing, it is likely that there will be some passengers canceling for various reasons. This is why the airline will then allow another 5 or so passengers to book the same flight without a seat number being issued. If no one cancels, then those passengers holding a boarding pass without a seat number would probably be put on standby status.

The plane that I flew, generally seated anywhere from 250-285 passengers, depending on which version of the aircraft we were scheduled to use. In this case, normally, we almost always had last minute cancellations and therefore; we would have allowed standbys to be seated. If, say I was flying a B-767-400 and it seated 280 passengers, the airline may book 290 passengers. If everyone who had a seat number showed up, then those passengers without a seat number would go on standby or be given a seat on the next flight. If United's next flight was full, the gate agent is "supposed" to find a seat for the passenger(s) on another airline. Truthfully, that seldom happens, but it does routinely happen.

Also, if you read the fine print in the rules for passengers that are ticketed, which in the business is called "Contract of Carriage," you will read that the airline does have the right to remove passengers under certain situations and using the approved FAA protocol. One really needs to be a lawyer to understand all of the fine print. However, there is also a Bill of Rights for passengers that the airlines with the approval of the FAA has available. But, the bottom line here is that when you "click" on the button to accept the terms when purchasing your ticket, you have just agreed to the airlines's terms. This is not to say that a judge could rule that the language is ambiguous for a layman to understand and side with the plaintiff.

I agree with the consensus here on this board. It is best to comply with the airlines request to give up the seat and fight it later. United is not the uncaring giant that it's made out to be. We, including myself, have all, been unhappy at times with the service that we receive from an airline, but I am willing to tolerate some inconvenience in order to get to my destination in a few hours, instead of driving for two days. And, just maybe, if you complain loud enough, you may get a bump to first class. It never hurts to ask.

Sorry for the long post.
Click to expand...



Just a question that comes to mind.... why is it so darn important to have every seat on a plane filled? .... I recall flying on planes in the past that had empty seats. I guess that is unheard of these days.

So the airline could possibly miss out on a few paying customers if they do that, but aren't the problems faced with all the overbooking a lot more expensive in the long run. ... bad press, lawyers, and everything else involved.
 
United Airlines...and its stockholders...is paying a huge price for this stupidity. As of this morning, UA stock has lost almost 950 million dollars in value. That should be a huge wake up call to these airlines, and their treatment of passengers. Flying used to be a fairly pleasant way to travel, and the passenger amenities were great. Anymore, the airlines are more concerned with shoving as many people as possible onboard, and about the Only thing they don't charge extra for is a cup of water. Hopefully, this incident will remind the Corporate Big Whigs that the consumer/passenger deserves a bit more than a "seat"....and it would be better to have a few seats unoccupied than to "overbook".
 
Last I heard they weren't even overbooked, they just had to fit 4 of their people on the plane for business reasons. If that's the case, they should have figured it out before boarding instead of dragging a paying customer off the plane. Poor management in the least.
 

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