The one guy, who stands up and disagrees........

fuzzybuddy

fuzzybuddy

SF VIP
Location
The Sticks, Northeast PA.
Obamacare. Some people are for it and some are against it. Do you ever wonder why people have such differing opinions. Say you're in a group and you all vote for something, except the one guy/gal, who stands up and disagrees. And for some unknown reason doesn't see the problem or solution as you do. They feel just as correct as you do. That's why we vote. But have you ever wondered how come they don't see the problem as you do?
Don't forget, they are wondering about you.
 

I was against it because it didn't work for me. So, I was uninsured until I got Medicare a year ago. That's my only reason for being against it, it wasn't political at all....I would have loved to have health insurance.
 
I too am not looking at this as political, more about practical for me.

When it comes to one person standing up against something perhaps the best thing to do is listen to what they have to say. An alternative view may just be what is needed.


The ACA or Obama Care as an idea wasn't bad. Passing it without knowing what it entailed was as wrong as anything government has done. As it unfolded and parts and pieces and mandates were known it became pretty clear that the concept was flawed. For sure millions more were insured but still left 28.5 million uninsured. As copays, high deductibles & rates rose the reality of the flaws became clearer. That and increased use of the more expensive hospital emergency room use.


Trying to emulate what other countries do might work if the failures within those systems were accounted for in designing a single payer system. That and understanding the concentration or lack of in various parts of America. A one plan fits all like Medicare IMO won't work. To begin with Medicare is based on taxing businesses and employees. That revenue from tax base has shrunk, service jobs just don't pay like manufacturing jobs do. Aging population vs. young paying into the system to support Medicare for all is real.


I would be the one in a group asking questions about the ability to sustain when it's well known soc. sec. funding will come from bonds issued because the work force needed to keep soc. sec. in the black just isn't there anymore. Medicare for all as the way to provide single payer health care I don't think it's possible.
 

I'm for the Affordable Care Act because it works for me and it's a step towards guaranteeing decent health insurance for all Americans.

I assume that the majority of people that are against it already have good insurance through an employer, Medicare or the VA. If I had the option of going to an insurance broker and buying an individual health insurance policy I might have been against the ACA as well. In New York State it is simply not possible to purchase an individual policy.

Now I think it's time to go to the next level and replace the ACA, Medicaid and the VA with a Medicare for all policy that would also include people who currently receive health insurance through an employer sponsored program. If the plan covers young and old it will help to keep the cost of the premiums down.

The momentum is building and I believe that we will soon reach a tipping point towards a single payer program of some sort.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I'm for the Affordable Care Act because it works for me and it's a step towards guaranteeing decent health insurance for all Americans.

I assume that the majority of people that are against it already have good insurance through an employer, Medicare or the VA. If I had the option of going to an insurance broker and buying an individual health insurance policy I might have been against the ACA as well. In New York State it is simply not possible to purchase an individual policy.

Now I think it's time to go to the next level and replace the ACA, Medicaid and the VA with a Medicare for all policy that would also include people who currently receive health insurance through an employer sponsored program. If the plan covers young and old it will help to keep the cost of the premiums down.

The momentum is building and I believe that we will soon reach a tipping point towards a single payer program of some sort.
Click to expand...

I didn't have insurance, Aunt Bea and my options with the ACA weren't acceptable to me. I wasn't poor enough to get it free and the insurance choices I had with it, I didn't like.

For one, I would have had to switch drs. My PCP that I was going to for 13 years didn't take it. I couldn't find any that did take it close to me. Plus the deductible was $6,000! How would I pay that if all I have is widows benefits? There were other reasons but I forget now.

So, until I became eligible for Medicare I paid cash for my dr appts and prescriptions and shopped around for the cheapest lab for blood work, etc.

I was willing to pay the fine but I never got one. :)

It had had nothing to do with politics...I would have LOVED having affordable insurance.

I also wasn't the only one in this category....I heard others saying the same thing.
 
CeeCee said:
I didn't have insurance, Aunt Bea and my options with the ACA weren't acceptable to me. I wasn't poor enough to get it free and the insurance choices I had with it, I didn't like.

For one, I would have had to switch drs. My PCP that I was going to for 13 years didn't take it. I couldn't find any that did take it close to me. Plus the deductible was $6,000! How would I pay that if all I have is widows benefits? There were other reasons but I forget now.

So, until I became eligible for Medicare I paid cash for my dr appts and prescriptions and shopped around for the cheapest lab for blood work, etc.

I was willing to pay the fine but I never got one. :)

It had had nothing to do with politics...I would have LOVED having affordable insurance.

I also wasn't the only one in this category....I heard others saying the same thing.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing your experience with the ACA.

It sort of reinforces the idea in the OP, some folks like it and some folks don't.

For me it was the only good option and the monthly premium is in line with what employer provided coverage costs, in my case $757.97/month, I was able to keep my PCP and the coverage is great.
 
Health care for all is a very difficult thing to achieve. Even the countries that have socialized medicine have pros and cons, so that's not perfect either.

Im satisfied now with what I have with Medicare and my supplemental...so far so good. Of course Ive not needed surgery or hospitalization yet, so can't say much about that.
 
I'm sorry. I didn't not mean this thread to be a question about Obamacare. I was just using it as a token of what I was talking about. How people can have different ideas about a subject. We live in an area where we don't have sidewalks, even though all our deeds cede land for them. Somebody said that the local government wwas going to put in sidewalks for free. (Our local government goes into special session if they have to buy a paper clip, so sidewalks were never going to happen) Everybody said having sidewalks would be great, EXCEPT one guy, who thought the local government should not pay for them.
 
I guess the answer then is because people can have a different experience with the exact same thing. My experience with Obamacare was different than Aunt Bea's.

Is that what you're looking for Fuzzybuddy? Or am I still off track? Sorry, if I misunderstood.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Obamacare. Some people are for it and some are against it. Do you ever wonder why people have such differing opinions. Say you're in a group and you all vote for something, except the one guy/gal, who stands up and disagrees. And for some unknown reason doesn't see the problem or solution as you do. They feel just as correct as you do. That's why we vote. But have you ever wondered how come they don't see the problem as you do?
Don't forget, they are wondering about you.
Click to expand...

It is the one dissenting voice in the group that is the most important one to listen to when making important decisions. If everyone agrees 100% with each other it is very likely that the group hasn't thought the problem through sufficiently.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I'm sorry. I didn't not mean this thread to be a question about Obamacare. I was just using it as a token of what I was talking about. How people can have different ideas about a subject. We live in an area where we don't have sidewalks, even though all our deeds cede land for them. Somebody said that the local government wwas going to put in sidewalks for free. (Our local government goes into special session if they have to buy a paper clip, so sidewalks were never going to happen) Everybody said having sidewalks would be great, EXCEPT one guy, who thought the local government should not pay for them.
Click to expand...

We will always have differences of opinion.

In the case of the sidewalk I would be opposed to them in your neighborhood, based on what you've told us about it in the past. If you do live in a rural area with few neighbors then putting in a sidewalk that will get little use will only be an expense to you for the shoveling and the eventual maintenance when it cracks and needs to be replaced.

"Chacun à son goût!" said the old lady as she kissed the cow.
 
CeeCee said:
Health care for all is a very difficult thing to achieve. Even the countries that have socialized medicine have pros and cons, so that's not perfect either.
Click to expand...

There is an old saying that "the perfect is the enemy of the good" that reminds us that if we are only satisfied with that which is perfect we will overlook much that is good, or good enough. We tend to look for silver bullets that will be the answer to all problems but silver bullets exist only in fiction.

It takes time to create a new system and there are many adjustments necessary before it can be described as good enough.
 
Warrigal said:
There is an old saying that "the perfect is the enemy of the good" that reminds us that if we are only satisfied with that which is perfect we will overlook much that is good, or good enough. We tend to look for silver bullets that will be the answer to all problems but silver bullets exist only in fiction.

It takes time to create a new system and there are many adjustments necessary before it can be described as good enough.
Click to expand...

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "perfect". I do know many that have socialized medicine that aren't happy with it is what I meant to say. None from Australia though. Meaning I haven't talked to anybody personally about your health care system.

I only really know one other person from Australia and that's Rainee. Next time she pops in, I'll ask. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti socialized medicine if it works well enough.
 
My head is full of some things that I have heard recently over here. While listening to someone speaking at the National Press Club luncheon recently on the topic of energy policy, he made the point that the government was trying to solve three problems, reliability, sustainability and affordability, with one solution and he observed that we really need to address each problem separately. He used the term "silver bullet" to describe the approach of the government to a complex problem.

Then a week later I listened to two other speakers talking about the new submarines that we are planning to build. Again, the talk was about complexity and how our requirements due to our geography are not the same as those of the French, the Germans or the Japanese. In the end, we will have to prioritise and compromise to arrive at a fleet of subs that are good enough for our needs. They will never be perfect, especially as we don't have a crystal ball that allows us to see the future.

When is comes to our health system, it is very complex. We have to accommodate veterans and their dependents, pensioners, low income earners such as students and people who can afford and want to maintain their private health cover. Hospital treatment and pharmaceutical costs need to be considered within the scheme and the income of medical practitioners needs to be sustained. Other matters that need to be considered include waiting times for hospital treatment and the cost burdens of the chronically ill. And somehow, all of this must be paid for.

It takes time to develop a workable system as complex as this. And patience. It cannot be done by simply working on the insurance aspect alone.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Obamacare. Some people are for it and some are against it. Do you ever wonder why people have such differing opinions. Say you're in a group and you all vote for something, except the one guy/gal, who stands up and disagrees. And for some unknown reason doesn't see the problem or solution as you do. They feel just as correct as you do. That's why we vote. But have you ever wondered how come they don't see the problem as you do?
Don't forget, they are wondering about you.
Click to expand...

FB

I've been thinking about this and I think that our need to disagree could be a primitive survival mechanism that we are born with.

If all of us agreed, ate the same food, took the same path, chose the same shelter, defense, etc... then we probably would have become extinct. Our need to disagree or approach things differently keeps all of the people from eating the poison mushrooms. The same in a conflict, some stand and fight some hide others run. I think it is all about the mixture of reactions that increases the odds that some of us will survive. In the modern world this shows in the way we vote, the products we buy, etc...

"Gosh, it would be awful pleasin' to reason out the reason for things I can't explain..." - Scarecrow
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Obamacare. Some people are for it and some are against it. Do you ever wonder why people have such differing opinions. Say you're in a group and you all vote for something, except the one guy/gal, who stands up and disagrees. And for some unknown reason doesn't see the problem or solution as you do. They feel just as correct as you do. That's why we vote. But have you ever wondered how come they don't see the problem as you do?
Don't forget, they are wondering about you.
Click to expand...
We see the world through our own unique experiences/teachings/biases that are based on a lot of factors. Those experiences/teachings/biases can be fairly obvious or hidden, so to speak, beneath all kinds of layers. You are never going to be able to figure everybody out, heck you may never figure yourself out. LOL
 
Without differing opinions, we would be robots.

I personally think Obamacare would have had less resistance if it had always been referred to as the ACA. Like it or not, the U. S. is full of latent racism.
 
helenbacque said:
Without differing opinions, we would be robots.

I personally think Obamacare would have had less resistance if it had always been referred to as the ACA. Like it or not, the U. S. is full of latent racism.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I disagree with that at least from my perspective...All I wanted was affordable health insurance and for me the ACA wasn't it.
 
helenbacque said:
Without differing opinions, we would be robots.

I personally think Obamacare would have had less resistance if it had always been referred to as the ACA. Like it or not, the U. S. is full of latent racism.
Click to expand...

I think it is an egregious error to assume folks opposed to ACA/Obamacare are racists.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top