Shooting in Vegas

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tnthomas said:
Well, I just found that two of my former fellow San Bernardino County co-workers were victims in the LV shooting.

New story.

Dana Gardner was killed in the shooting. I did not know her personally, but had seen her on numerous occasions.

Sgt. Brad Powers, he was a fellow Sheriff's Dept. employee, again- did not know him personally but had seen him around.


I hate this senseless violence!
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Oh, Tn, I am so sorry.
 

Big Horn said:
Swiss society is different from ours in many ways. Can you imagine sales on trust in most places?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3cJbst45zQ
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That's heartening. We have many "trust" farm stands for produce here too. Doesn't help with the matter at hand unless the message is "trust your fellow man not to shoot you in the head" which, if that IS the message, doesn't seem to exist here a great deal. Can only wish.

Thanks, I subscribed to the YT site.

Also, being a millionaire doesn't mean much no, except for the huge cost of automatic weapons pre-1986 in NV, I read can go for up to 50K apiece, he had 18 in the room and some at home, too.

~~~Another thing I noticed about Paddock is back when "slip and fall" claims were abundant in some Vegas casinos and hotels, he claimed this kind of injury. For awhile, cameras were not placed in a lot of out of the way or little used corridors, until thieves-at-heart began to catch on.

I actually saw CCTV footage where a man, alone in a small corridor looked all around, saw no one, then sat down, then lay down and began moaning as if he fell. Fell over what, anyway? It doesn't matter, casinos paid off smaller amounts in some thousands in order to settle out of court.

I do not know how Paddock's "slip & fall" claim resulted.
 
BobF said:
Not sure what the Swiss have done but do know they must teach some basics about trust and how to earn it. They do put guns in the hands of children at early ages. This is an example of how they teach them how and why to have weapons. Come of adult age they are for some years considered to be part of their standby army. When all folks know what the weapons can do and why they are kept at home, then much of this confusion about the US wanting guns at home and wanting most of us to remain as loyal military capable folks, even when no longer of military age. We should follow what the Swiss have done for so many hundreds of years.

It is not the guns that is the problem ever. It is the untrained and undisciplined people that are the main problem. A loaded gun on the table is no threat to anyone till some untrained or twisted minded on picks it up from the table and start pointing and pulling the trigger.
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Bob, you have a good point-
 

RadishRose said:
Why is it that the Swiss are armed to the teeth yet don't shoot each other like we do?

Is it the guns or is there something wrong with our society? With us?

I really don't know, but compared to Switzerland with all their guns something seems wrong.

I have no desire to debate here, just want to hear some opinion on that. Thanks.
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I hesitate to answer but I do think that many in the US do love violence if the movies are anything to go by. Even, or especially old cowboy movies have sound tracks with lots of gunshots. I used not to notice but lately I think that there must be some sort of addiction to the adrenalin rush of gunfire and explosions. I think it is worse now thanks to special effects.
 
Warrigal said:
I hesitate to answer but I do think that many in the US do love violence if the movies are anything to go by. Even, or especially old cowboy movies have sound tracks with lots of gunshots. I used not to notice but lately I think that there must be some sort of addiction to the adrenalin rush of gunfire and explosions. I think it is worse now thanks to special effects.
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I think that you're getting closer to the root of the problem, it's more of a cultural issue, rather than "gun control" related. I think that's why the gun control measures implemented in Australia work, but would not work in America.

Same could be said for the example of Switzerland.

There are less unifying threads running through U.S. society, than say, Switzerland or Australia's,Maybe?

America's success at attaining ultimate individual freedom may be it's ultimate downfall.

At this rate, in 20 years America will either cease to exist, or it will resemble East Germany of the 1960s.
 
RadishRose said:
That's heartening. We have many "trust" farm stands for produce here too. Doesn't help with the matter at hand unless the message is "trust your fellow man not to shoot you in the head" which, if that IS the message, doesn't seem to exist here a great deal. Can only wish.

Thanks, I subscribed to the YT site.
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No, my post has nothing to do with shooting. I wished to illustrate that in Switzerland it's common to assume honesty and civilized conduct. Both of these traits are sorely lacking in this and most other countries. To put it a different way: the Swiss are civilized.
 
RadishRose said:
That's heartening. We have many "trust" farm stands for produce here too. Doesn't help with the matter at hand unless the message is "trust your fellow man not to shoot you in the head" which, if that IS the message, doesn't seem to exist here a great deal. Can only wish.

~~~Another thing I noticed about Paddock is back when "slip and fall" claims were abundant in some Vegas casinos and hotels, he claimed this kind of injury. For awhile, cameras were not placed in a lot of out of the way or little used corridors, until thieves-at-heart began to catch on.

I do not know how Paddock's "slip & fall" claim resulted.
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I saw videotape of Paddock's slip and fall from several different angles today. It was obvious he took a very bad fall. One camera angle clearly shows him doing the splits, which must have resulted in some injury.

His case went to arbitration and was dismissed as having no merit. I wonder if, at least in part, that's what set him off.
 
Camper6 said:
Warrigal: Your quote.
Guns rarely kill people - bullets do.
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What? If you don't think guns kill people you are missing the point. That's fallacious.

I hope you didn't teach that in school. That's rifle club mottos.
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Respectfully, Camper, it is you who is missing the point. My reference to bullets killing rather than guns was an entrée suggestion that if guns could not be restricted, then maybe the answer is to restrict ammunition.

I'm beginning to think that you read posts not with the intention of understanding the content but of searching the content for some little thing that you can start an argument about.

I suggest you think deeply about the lock/hinge analogy to understand why I included those words.
 
Warrigal said:
Respectfully, Camper, it is you who is missing the point. My reference to bullets killing rather than guns was an entrée a suggestion that if guns could not be restricted, then maybe the answer is to restrict ammunition.

I'm beginning to think that you read posts not with the intention of understanding the content but of searching the content for some little thing that you can start an argument about.

I suggest you think deeply about the lock/hinge analogy to understand why I included those words.
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Respectfully they do restrict ammunition but not in all states. See you just have to go to another state to get them.

And then there is the reloading. You can pack your own bullets.

I suggest you are the one who made the statement and it's fallacious. What you are saying then is that you can't stop the sale of guns but you can stop the sale of ammunition?

What is really required is Federal Laws in the U.S. not state laws and that's never going to happen because of the Constitution.

And how are you going to stop the manufacture of bullets in Canada right next door? Or even Mexico.

When I was working we put in a bid to supply 2 million bullets to the U.S. Army.

And guns seized at the Canadian border.? The Customs in Canada auctioned them off and you could bid on them. We lowballed and won some bids on rifles, not revolvers.

Guns, ammunition, etc. are a global market. It only takes one guy like this one with money.
 
Personally, I suspect this man had serious mental health issues. He was at least a verbal abuser of his girl friend (maybe a physical abuser behind closed doors) This country has a terrible record when it comes to caring for the mentally ill. His brother was shocked, but said he's had little contact with the shooter for 10 years, so he wouldn't have known about subtle personality and mental deterioration and some are quite good at pretending normalcy for short periods.
As for guns, blaming them makes about as much sense as blaming the auto that kills someone in the course of an accident. Do we ban all cars? No one needs an automatic rifle for hunting - or anything else. but rifles and pistols can be used for a variety of legal activities. I am a gun owner and have been for many years. The only thing I have ever "killed" were targets. I don't hunt - don't even like the idea of hurting a fellow creature. Unfortunately we do have a past history laced with violence and there has been an increased acceptance of violence in recent months as a means of dealing with a variety of issues
 
My thoughts in blue.

Camper6 said:
Respectfully they do restrict ammunition but not in all states. See you just have to go to another state to get them.
Then here is a starting point. Encourage the states to adopt uniform reasonable restrictions. A really good leader might be able to do this. John Howard managed it and he was certainly not charismatic.

And then there is the reloading. You can pack your own bullets. ??? This is over my head.

I suggest you are the one who made the statement and it's fallacious. What you are saying then is that you can't stop the sale of guns but you can stop the sale of ammunition? The constitution says nothing about ammunition, so this is the weak hinge to the stronger lock.

What is really required is Federal Laws in the U.S. not state laws and that's never going to happen because of the Constitution.
It can. States can cede their powers to the Federal government. They have done it over here and probably have done it in US too.

And how are you going to stop the manufacture of bullets in Canada right next door? Or even Mexico.
I assume that by using the pronoun "you" that you don't actually mean me personally. Rhetorical question? Why should they have to restrict their manufacture unless Canada and Mexico think it would help with their death toll from firearms. Come to think of it Mexico might benefit from such a curtailment but Canada is doing OK, I think.

When I was working we put in a bid to supply 2 million bullets to the U.S. Army.
No need to restrict ammunition to the military so why bring this up?

And guns seized at the Canadian border.? The Customs in Canada auctioned them off and you could bid on them. We lowballed and won some bids on rifles, not revolvers. ??? Over my head again. Can't see the relevance to the topic.

Guns, ammunition, etc. are a global market. It only takes one guy like this one with money.
One, he bought his in US, not on a global market and two, border control exists to detect and seize prohibited imports.
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Dragonlady said:
Personally, I suspect this man had serious mental health issues. He was at least a verbal abuser of his girl friend (maybe a physical abuser behind closed doors) This country has a terrible record when it comes to caring for the mentally ill. His brother was shocked, but said he's had little contact with the shooter for 10 years, so he wouldn't have known about subtle personality and mental deterioration and some are quite good at pretending normalcy for short periods.
As for guns, blaming them makes about as much sense as blaming the auto that kills someone in the course of an accident. Do we ban all cars? No one needs an automatic rifle for hunting - or anything else. but rifles and pistols can be used for a variety of legal activities. I am a gun owner and have been for many years. The only thing I have ever "killed" were targets. I don't hunt - don't even like the idea of hurting a fellow creature. Unfortunately we do have a past history laced with violence and there has been an increased acceptance of violence in recent months as a means of dealing with a variety of issues
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I agree. I know others will disagree and wish to ban all guns, but I think not allowing civilians to purchase rapid repeating assault weapons could be solution to this problem? The only reason for a civilian to purchase such a weapon would be to harm others, I think.
 
chic said:
I agree. I know others will disagree and wish to ban all guns, but I think not allowing civilians to purchase rapid repeating assault weapons could be solution to this problem? The only reason for a civilian to purchase such a weapon would be to harm others, I think.
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It's sometimes necessary to harm others in order to protect self, family, and country.
 
Don M. said:
Early reports are indicating that this shooter modified his weapons to fire virtually automatic. Last night I looked up the info on a couple of these after market modifications...Bump Fire, and Slide Fire...and it appears that for a couple hundred dollars, and a few minutes work, an AR-15 or AK-47 can be modified to fire as many as 800 rounds per minute. Now, I am generally an advocate for maintaining the 2nd Amendment, but I see NO reason why such devices should be readily available to the general public. Interestingly enough, this morning, those manufacturers web sites seem to be down....but here are some examples of these modifications being sold today.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=bump+fire
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It is easy to see why those web sites seem to be down... like cockroaches they are scurring for cover after the lights have been switched on. They have to be afraid of lawsuits and/or targeted legislation. They are likely out of that business.
 
With that cache of guns and ammo and two windows shot from... are we sure he acted alone... or that he wasn't expecting others to join him?

We will have to wait for the investigation to play out and see what they can make of it. It is probably best to ignore all the speculative news reports for the most part.
 
My first thought was, didn't anyone at all see him bringing all those rifles into the hotel???


Video security is quite heavy in LV, surely there was a glimpse of 'something' out of the ordinary....
 
chic said:
I agree. I know others will disagree and wish to ban all guns, but I think not allowing civilians to purchase rapid repeating assault weapons could be solution to this problem? The only reason for a civilian to purchase such a weapon would be to harm others, I think.
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There is no complete solution. All you can hope for is to make improvements i.e. less massacres and less lives lost.
 
Big Horn said:
No, my post has nothing to do with shooting. I wished to illustrate that in Switzerland it's common to assume honesty and civilized conduct. Both of these traits are sorely lacking in this and most other countries. To put it a different way: the Swiss are civilized.
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Oh, I see what you mean, thanks.
 
Big Horn said:
No, my post has nothing to do with shooting. I wished to illustrate that in Switzerland it's common to assume honesty and civilized conduct. Both of these traits are sorely lacking in this and most other countries. To put it a different way: the Swiss are civilized.
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And why were discipline by teachers taken from the US schools from grades to universities. Why are we no longer allowed to make sure the kids do get trained in discipline and fairness as they once were. Should we just end our public school system and make it all private and away from the minds of the no discipline folks.
 
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Smiling Jane said:
I saw videotape of Paddock's slip and fall from several different angles today. It was obvious he took a very bad fall. One camera angle clearly shows him doing the splits, which must have resulted in some injury.

His case went to arbitration and was dismissed as having no merit. I wonder if, at least in part, that's what set him off.
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Thanks Jane, you saw it and it was real. How odd they felt his case had no merit unless there was no actual injury.
 
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